Television

Woob_woob said:
I got caught up on Mr. Robot just in time for last night's episode and I'm glad I did. This season has been wonderful and last nights episode was a masterpiece.
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I was going to write just about the same thing...so far this season has been the best...and it gets better each episode.

Last night's was one of the best hours of television I've watched in a very long time.

Writing, acting, cinematography, music were all exceptional.
 
Fillip J Phry said:
Looks like @Woob_woob answered my question about the timeline, so I'm now just swinging by to say The Mandalorian is rad and I'm super invested two episodes in.
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I groused lightly about it in the Star Wars thread already, but I’m not quite feeling invested. The show’s entertaining, and I’m glad to see the kind of Star Wars story we’ve all been waiting for (c’mon, “Boba Fett Tv Show” was on every fan’s wish list, it’s not exactly a risky proposition), but I’m a little emotionally underwhelmed. The music is *very* serious, but the patent silliness of Star Wars causes it to undercut itself. And the remoteness and anonymity of the Mandalorian makes it hard to care about him (turns out having eyes and a face helps make a character relatable to audiences).

I don’t mean to look a gift horse in the mouth, and I’m definitely locked in for watching the whole season; I just don’t quite feel the hype.
 
Had to watch Mr. Robot again this morning. The performances from Rami Malek, Christian Slater, Gloria Ruben, and Elliot Villar are amazing.

Wouldn't be too shocked if this episode comes back around during the Emmy season.
 
Woob_woob said:
That's actually one of the things that has drawn me in the most. It makes it feel like a Space Western.
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Oh for sure; they’re totally going for a spaghetti western Man With No Name thing with him. It’s just not landing for me. When Clint Eastwood rolls into town with no sign of where he’s been, where he’s going, or even why, I’m still drawn in and intrigued to see how he reacts to whatever he finds in that town. The Mandalorian, on the other hand, just is, and the utter lack of reaction to most things makes it hard to feel much interest or investment. Most of those movies push your investment in everyone else around the blank protagonist, and I think if the ensemble cast around him gets more fleshed out the show will really hit its mark.

Some coworkers were talking about the second episode this morning, and someone brought up the fact that they feel the Mandalorian is a lot less capable than he seemed in the first episode, just going into the cave without a plan. Another coworker said that was the point, that he was overconfident. Then someone asked what gave them that impression; it’s not like he said or emoted in any way that would give lie to that motivation. Everyone had different takes on the Mandalorian’s attitudes and character. I’d say that’s *too* far in the direction of anonymous.
 
Woob_woob said:
That's actually one of the things that has drawn me in the most. It makes it feel like a Space Western.
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Agreed! A bit hard to judge at this point (2 episodes that barely total over an hour), but it's really going for a unique niche of quiet vignettes instead of the megadose of plotting that dominates most scifi TV. In the SW universe it feels most like the opening sequence of ANH, with the droids wandering in the wasteland, which has always reminded me of the desert scene in Leone's Good the Bad and the Ugly, so it's really getting me in that way. Critics would say this is because the directive of these lesser Star Wars projects is to not rock the boat, but if this is a restraint I think it informs and enhances the show's direction. The last thing I wanted was another sci-fi intrigue drama with SW paint.
 
Bull Shannon said:
Oh for sure; they’re totally going for a spaghetti western Man With No Name thing with him. It’s just not landing for me. When Clint Eastwood rolls into town with no sign of where he’s been, where he’s going, or even why, I’m still drawn in and intrigued to see how he reacts to whatever he finds in that town. The Mandalorian, on the other hand, just is, and the utter lack of reaction to most things makes it hard to feel much interest or investment. Most of those movies push your investment in everyone else around the blank protagonist, and I think if the ensemble cast around him gets more fleshed out the show will really hit its mark.

Some coworkers were talking about the second episode this morning, and someone brought up the fact that they feel the Mandalorian is a lot less capable than he seemed in the first episode, just going into the cave without a plan. Another coworker said that was the point, that he was overconfident. Then someone asked what gave them that impression; it’s not like he said or emoted in any way that would give lie to that motivation. Everyone had different takes on the Mandalorian’s attitudes and character. I’d say that’s *too* far in the direction of anonymous.
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I do enjoy the show, but I hear your criticism with regards to the character being hard to relate to. That said, I'd map the exact same criticism onto Leone's characters which might have felt more compelling in 60s Italy but are pretty far from what we'd consider to be sympathetic and relatable today. I love those films, but it's hard to relate or really care about anyone in the Dollars Trilogy, something I think he would work hard to rectify in his next three films to mixed success. I'd say the sheer physicality of the performance is missing in Mandalorian with the helmet and that might be what sucks you in to Eastwood's character. I also think in the TV space we've had an abundance of successful characters that "break bad" vs this older archetype of "bad guy breaks good." I imagine we will care more about him in upcoming weeks.
 
Bull Shannon said:
Oh for sure; they’re totally going for a spaghetti western Man With No Name thing with him. It’s just not landing for me. When Clint Eastwood rolls into town with no sign of where he’s been, where he’s going, or even why, I’m still drawn in and intrigued to see how he reacts to whatever he finds in that town. The Mandalorian, on the other hand, just is, and the utter lack of reaction to most things makes it hard to feel much interest or investment. Most of those movies push your investment in everyone else around the blank protagonist, and I think if the ensemble cast around him gets more fleshed out the show will really hit its mark.

Some coworkers were talking about the second episode this morning, and someone brought up the fact that they feel the Mandalorian is a lot less capable than he seemed in the first episode, just going into the cave without a plan. Another coworker said that was the point, that he was overconfident. Then someone asked what gave them that impression; it’s not like he said or emoted in any way that would give lie to that motivation. Everyone had different takes on the Mandalorian’s attitudes and character. I’d say that’s *too* far in the direction of anonymous.
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I didnt peg him as overly capable in the first episode tho. It seemed like hes barely scraping by with his bounty hunting gigs from his chat with Carl Weathers, and he reluctantly had to take help from a droid to even complete his mission.
 
LeeVing said:
Had to watch Mr. Robot again this morning. The performances from Rami Malek, Christian Slater, Gloria Ruben, and Elliot Villar are amazing.

Wouldn't be too shocked if this episode comes back around during the Emmy season.
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It definitely should. I've believed Mr Robot to be a little under-appreciated in the past few years, especially in terms of awards when it's like consistently some of the best looking and writing on tv. But this episode was an actor showcase, and easily deserves some award recognition, for all three of the main actors in it. I haven't stopped thinking about this episode since last night.
 
Woob_woob said:
I didnt peg him as overly capable in the first episode tho. It seemed like hes barely scraping by with his bounty hunting gigs from his chat with Carl Weathers, and he reluctantly had to take help from a droid to even complete his mission.
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I think that may be exactly what they're working up to as the premise of the show.
Everyone sees a badass Mandalorian (thus all the comments about how he'll make short work of the job) but he's still just a foundling on the inside.
 
Bull Shannon said:
Oh for sure; they’re totally going for a spaghetti western Man With No Name thing with him. It’s just not landing for me. When Clint Eastwood rolls into town with no sign of where he’s been, where he’s going, or even why, I’m still drawn in and intrigued to see how he reacts to whatever he finds in that town. The Mandalorian, on the other hand, just is, and the utter lack of reaction to most things makes it hard to feel much interest or investment. Most of those movies push your investment in everyone else around the blank protagonist, and I think if the ensemble cast around him gets more fleshed out the show will really hit its mark.

Some coworkers were talking about the second episode this morning, and someone brought up the fact that they feel the Mandalorian is a lot less capable than he seemed in the first episode, just going into the cave without a plan. Another coworker said that was the point, that he was overconfident. Then someone asked what gave them that impression; it’s not like he said or emoted in any way that would give lie to that motivation. Everyone had different takes on the Mandalorian’s attitudes and character. I’d say that’s *too* far in the direction of anonymous.
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As an addendum to my last comment, I think the points in your spoiler are also how Disney tries to thread the needle of having a violent anti-hero protagonist in an ostensibly family-friendly franchise: the less he says or does to explain his own motivations, the more the audience's read is really just them projecting their own stuff onto him. Until/unless they develop him and humanize him more, for now he's simultaneously all things to all viewers without the show explicitly confirming/denying whether he's a decent person or a bad hombre.
 
Bull Shannon said:
Oh for sure; they’re totally going for a spaghetti western Man With No Name thing with him. It’s just not landing for me. When Clint Eastwood rolls into town with no sign of where he’s been, where he’s going, or even why, I’m still drawn in and intrigued to see how he reacts to whatever he finds in that town. The Mandalorian, on the other hand, just is, and the utter lack of reaction to most things makes it hard to feel much interest or investment. Most of those movies push your investment in everyone else around the blank protagonist, and I think if the ensemble cast around him gets more fleshed out the show will really hit its mark.

Some coworkers were talking about the second episode this morning, and someone brought up the fact that they feel the Mandalorian is a lot less capable than he seemed in the first episode, just going into the cave without a plan. Another coworker said that was the point, that he was overconfident. Then someone asked what gave them that impression; it’s not like he said or emoted in any way that would give lie to that motivation. Everyone had different takes on the Mandalorian’s attitudes and character. I’d say that’s *too* far in the direction of anonymous.
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I personally got the impression that he is indeed overconfident, but also very under trained. Every situation he's been in so far would have been easily avoided by someone more seasoned. Like with the droid, he could have just camped out and waited while the compound took out the droid, unless there's some guild clause stopping him from doing that. He could have hid the ship better to avoid it getting scrapped. He could have lured the beast out of the cave. His quick trigger finger was the whole reason for the Storm Trooper standoff. That guy walking in didn't seem threatening in the slightest to me, but maybe I missed something. I'm hoping he faces a situation that truly humbles him, instead of just getting by with luck/tiny Yoda saving his ass.
 
Just finished ep. 3 of His Dark Materials.

This was the weakest episode in my opinion and where Thorne’s flaws as a writer are starting to show themselves... I am officially worried about this show’s ability to a) do the books justice and b) catch on with a wider audience.

I continue to feel that they are doing a terrible job of explaining and exploring the human / deamon relationship.

They don’t feel like an extension of a person’s soul and personality, they feel like a pet. Part of that is that the budget has forced them to “hide” demons and limit the # on screen. Another part of it is how rarely we see other characters talking to their demon (also likely budget). And then part of it is not taking advantage of dialogue from the book.

For example, in the book there is an anecdote about most servants having dogs as deamons and a story about the guy whose demon chooses the form of a dolphin (after falling in love with the ocean) and he is forced to become a sailor because of it. Both went unused.

I can’t help but feel they picked the right director but the wrong writer. Thorne not only repeatedly fails to use the natural exposition that Pullman provides him, he often throws on-the-nose lines of dialogue into scenes (where it’s not needed) instead portraying that information visually. Worse, the pace feels off because it’s been all plot and very little character development.

This is all extremely frustrating because it dents the soul of the book and is going to hamper the emotional impact of scenes later on.

In contrast, the scene
with Miss Coulter out on the ledge felt like a rare instance of letting the audience fill in the blanks. Especially because the question of how she wound up with a monkey deamon was asked a scene or two prior.
That’s how you help your audience figure out the deamon / human relationship, character build and take advantage of the strengths of film as a medium.

I also enjoyed
the althemometer scene quite a bit and the scenes with the flies.

Am I being too picky because of my attachment to the books?
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
Am I being too picky because of my attachment to the books?
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I think you might be being bit harsh, it's quite hard to capture the thematic significance of the stuff like the servant deamons on screen in a modern TV show, it's just not something that resonates on a visual level. That aside, I think one of the biggest flaws is the lack of deamons and their reduced interactions, not because of lack of faithfulness to the book, but because the alternative they have chosen is just more boring and pedestrian. I'm not sure if this is out of budgetary concerns or a desire to normalize the show along GOT lines and reduce the high fantasy elements for wider appeal.

Either way I can live with that. I'm a bit more concerned about the weird pacing and direction choices.
That scene where Lyra runs off the gyptian boat, then it cuts to her several yards away before cutting into the yelling parenthood reveal over the ditch was just really strange unnatural pacing, blocking and delivery.

All this aside I'm still pretty positve on the show. In general fantasy has a very poor track record of working in filmed media, especially TV. TBH I expected this to be a bit of a mess, but still fun and so far it's delivering. I do hope all this sorts out as we get into the main beats of the story though.
 
folsom_lives said:
My wife and I are completely addicted to Succession. I will be very sad when we finish the second season and have to wait for a third.
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We just started S2 last night and I'm really liking it now. After stalling on it for awhile and thinking it wasn't binge-able, I changed my mind from the Austerlitz episode on. A really great ending to S1 made it easy to want to start S2.
 
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