Television

Am I being too picky because of my attachment to the books?
I think your points are all valid. I read the books, but my husband didn't. The first thing he said when we sat down to watch this episode was,"Where are all the animals if everyone has a daemon?" He's right though. They need more daemons, but I think they might be saving their money on the ice bear.

As @zombie.modernist pointed out in that scene where we learn about Lyra's parents, the writing has been really clunky. I think this my gripe too. I loved the scene last week where Lyra broke into the study. It had me on the edge of my seat. And I realized that the action sequences are superb but the minute someone opens their mouth, it starts dragging.

I haven't read the books for years, so I can't necessarily say that this show is so different from the books, but I do notice that the rich world is really been hard for them to capture in the show.
 
Re: Mr. Robot.

Hello, Friend

Has there been any theory out there that we, the audience, are the "other one" - that we are waiting to hear about?

We saw the mom, kid, Mr. Robot at the end of Season 1 in Times Square - but he was also talking to us in this scene.

It may be a bit out there of a theory and one that probably can't be pulled off....but if it is, then I think Esmail can do it.
 
Re: Mr. Robot.

Hello, Friend

Has there been any theory out there that we, the audience, are the "other one" - that we are waiting to hear about?

We saw the mom, kid, Mr. Robot at the end of Season 1 in Times Square - but he was also talking to us in this scene.

It may be a bit out there of a theory and one that probably can't be pulled off....but if it is, then I think Esmail can do it.
I have read that a lot since we first heard of a third. I have no idea how it would work but if it could be done, I’d be blown away
 
I have read that a lot since we first heard of a third. I have no idea how it would work but if it could be done, I’d be blown away

I've done what I can to avoid any theories, so I wasn't sure. I did tho listen to some podcasts after this last episode....and watched it a couple more times.

Currently re-watching the series - more in the back ground as I'm spinning records.
 
also...
I don't fully understand the symbolism of Hooded Justice painting on white make up while Sister Knight paints on black make up but it is something and is another part of this story that is really well done.
The show/comic has a lot to say about generational trauma and patterned behavior, so the mirroring is hard to ignore. I really just appreciate that not only does HJ painting his face mirror Sister Midnight's painting, it has both narrative and thematic purpose in terms of the story it's telling; it feels like it's layering on more rather than just patting itself on the back. It plays with an odd trope of comic book movie storytelling which Batman and Kick Ass made text, which is that the black paint around the hero's eyes to make them pop from behind the mask isn't a makeup choice made by the filmmakers, but rather a thing the superhero does before they put the mask on. I just love how last night's episode layered on this extra narrative/thematic purpose.

Also, I want to give this show SO much credit for inviting guesses and theories in a way that I find more rewarding and thoughtful than most shows. The opposite end of this would be Westworld (and to a lesser extent LOST), which would sacrifice narrative clarity and emotional stakes just to keep mysteries obfuscated. Watchmen has been mysterious, but instead of just holding its cards close and taunting us, it's been slowly turning each card over with great aplomb and maturity. Take the reveal that Angela's grandfather is HJ; that was a theory I'd heard over the last few weeks. By the time this week rolled around and they tell the story of HJ's origin, it isn't even a reveal so much as a promise fulfilled. It felt more like the show trusted us to make that connection, and if not, that was fine too.
 
I'm gonna wait for Watchmen until it's over so I can just binge the series.

Only 3 more weeks...so I'll get to it then.
 
also...
I don't fully understand the symbolism of Hooded Justice painting on white make up while Sister Knight paints on black make up but it is something and is another part of this story that is really well done.

On the podcast Lindelof was about to get to this point but they got sidetracked. I think what @Bull Shannon says rings true for me too.

As far as the payoffs, I think Lindelof has really learned from his LOST days (although I do think LOST’s conclusion is better than most give it credit for, especially after seeing more of his shows) and benefits from quicker payoff and tighter symbolism. He mentioned this on the podcast too, or maybe Craig Mazin did, keeping the balance towards mystery vs confusion. The biggest problems with LOST were likely Cuse and the network insisting on more seasons than the narrative needed.
 
On the podcast Lindelof was about to get to this point but they got sidetracked. I think what @Bull Shannon says rings true for me too.

As far as the payoffs, I think Lindelof has really learned from his LOST days (although I do think LOST’s conclusion is better than most give it credit for, especially after seeing more of his shows) and benefits from quicker payoff and tighter symbolism. He mentioned this on the podcast too, or maybe Craig Mazin did, keeping the balance towards mystery vs confusion. The biggest problems with LOST were likely Cuse and the network insisting on more seasons than the narrative needed.

My take is that the finale was great, but the final season was iffy for me. Just a lot of loose-end-tying that didn't seem necessary. I remember them explaining the whispers in the jungle and thinking "it's a mysterious jungle that a lot of stuff comes out of; I didn't need to know why there was whispering happening in it. It really rubs me the wrong way when people act like the final episode was the stumbling point.
 
My take is that the finale was great, but the final season was iffy for me. Just a lot of loose-end-tying that didn't seem necessary. I remember them explaining the whispers in the jungle and thinking "it's a mysterious jungle that a lot of stuff comes out of; I didn't need to know why there was whispering happening in it. It really rubs me the wrong way when people act like the final episode was the stumbling point.

Ahhh your take is pretty much the exact opposite of the common one. I would tend to agree that they sort of demystified the island a little bit at the end, which was particularly strange since the overall arc of the season was the most mystical one of all. I think Leftovers did a far better job of "letting the mystery be" (pardon the pun) for things that didn't impact the characters. I'm feeling that Watchmen will be more like that since the comic itself doesn't tie up all loose ends.
 
Ahhh your take is pretty much the exact opposite of the common one. I would tend to agree that they sort of demystified the island a little bit at the end, which was particularly strange since the overall arc of the season was the most mystical one of all. I think Leftovers did a far better job of "letting the mystery be" (pardon the pun) for things that didn't impact the characters. I'm feeling that Watchmen will be more like that since the comic itself doesn't tie up all loose ends.
Well put with the mystical-yet-not observation. Allison Janney touching Jacob and the Man (boy?) in Black's shoulders and saying "I've made it so you can't hurt one another" sums up just how overly-mystical-yet-overly-mundane that season was for me. Like that was some real bogus hokum. But then the Richard episode was an all-timer, so...

I may be misrepresenting how great I think the finale was (I give it a solid 7 or 8 out of 10), but I guess my point to the folks hating the finale is, I'm having a lot of trouble understanding what show they were watching for the prior six years if the ending is where they see problems.
 
Ahhh your take is pretty much the exact opposite of the common one. I would tend to agree that they sort of demystified the island a little bit at the end, which was particularly strange since the overall arc of the season was the most mystical one of all. I think Leftovers did a far better job of "letting the mystery be" (pardon the pun) for things that didn't impact the characters. I'm feeling that Watchmen will be more like that since the comic itself doesn't tie up all loose ends.
Completely agree about The Leftovers. It benefited from allowing the audience to draw it’s own conclusion about certain portions while still allowing for all sorts of crazy fun to happen. Some episodes were almost Lynchian in the way they unraveled like wild fever dreams but they were all extremely entertaining and emotionally enthralling. The Leftovers was damn near perfect. Probably a top 5 drama for me and Watchmen is riding the same path.
 
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