listening to LCO.. it just doesn't click for me.. maybe im more of a fusion fan than a free fan.. because this seemed similar to most classical music in which case i dont feel the music or any kind of feeling beyond "stuff is happening but its not sporadic and dynamic enough to be hardcore noise"
Vinyl Me Please Classics
- Thread starter TCell
- Start date
doncornelius
Well-Known Member
Another possible October pick is Does the Sun Really Shine on the Moon? by Gary McFarland and Co. (1968) on Skye Records, a label co-founded by McFarland with Norman Schwartz, Cal Tjader, and Garbo Szabo. It would be a weird pick, but it meets the clues given thus far.
www.discogs.com
Gary McFarland & Co. - Does The Sun Really Shine On The Moon?
Explore songs, recommendations, and other album details for Does The Sun Really Shine On The Moon? by Gary McFarland & Co.. Compare different versions and buy them all on Discogs.
www.discogs.com
Selaws
Well-Known Member
The JCO album can really be reviewed in 2 halves (in fact, I did so over the weekend for a couple of Instagram posts I will put up at some point) with the first LP covering 4 tracks and the second LP covering 1 single track split into 2 parts. The first sees a different lead on each track (Don Cherry/Gato Barbieri, Larry Coryell, Steve Swallow/Roswell Rudd, and Pharoah Sanders) and to me sounds like a sampler of the group, allowing the listener to hear a snippet of each musicians style. The second LP sees Cecil Taylor taking the reigns and it's here where the meat of the album is. By this point in his career, Taylor was well established and had already developed a unique percussive style. Whereas a lot of the other musicians would have used the orchestra set-up as a chance to develop completely new ideas, Taylor uses it as a chance to build upon his already established music. Its a really fascinating LP, especially considering Taylor has the energy ramped up to 11 for the entire 2 sides!
Selaws
Well-Known Member
Don't want to rock the boat but I don't think this is entirely true. Correct me if im wrong but from what I have read, Sun Ra, Alton Abraham, and a couple of others founded Ihnfinity Records in 1957, then made Saturn and El Saturn as a way of allowing Sun Ra to release his own material to the public (music, posters, pamphlets, etc).
doncornelius
Well-Known Member
While wikipedia credits only Abraham as the founder, discogs indeed lists Sun Ra as a co-founder.
Selaws
Well-Known Member
I might look into getting a biography on Sun Ra, I bet theres some wild stories about his life!
NathanRicaud
Well-Known Member
@Selaws - How great would it be if VMP made Idris Muhammad’s ‘Turn This Mutha Out’ a Classics ROTM in the future! “Could Heaven Ever Be Like This” is such a funky, dreamy, celestial, loose and ethereal song! It’s a classic hit song!
Idris Muhammad’s drumming on Pharoahe Sanders’ Africa is amazing! And I know you have that album on vinyl too! It’s such a great Tidal Waves release!
I love the funk and musicality on Turn This Mutha Out! The instrumentation on ‘Say What’ is so close to the opening spacey notes of Herbie Hancock’s Chameleon! But ‘Say What’ is so good! The flute and guitar and drumming all work together so smoothly!
The instrumentation on ‘Crap Apple’ is so good too! It’s fat, juicy, and colourful! I love the album ‘Turn This Mutha Out’ so much! Would just love it if VMP gave it the Classics treatment!
Idris Muhammad’s drumming on Pharoahe Sanders’ Africa is amazing! And I know you have that album on vinyl too! It’s such a great Tidal Waves release!
I love the funk and musicality on Turn This Mutha Out! The instrumentation on ‘Say What’ is so close to the opening spacey notes of Herbie Hancock’s Chameleon! But ‘Say What’ is so good! The flute and guitar and drumming all work together so smoothly!
The instrumentation on ‘Crap Apple’ is so good too! It’s fat, juicy, and colourful! I love the album ‘Turn This Mutha Out’ so much! Would just love it if VMP gave it the Classics treatment!
Selaws
Well-Known Member
Ooooh that would be a good pick for sure!!! I love Power Of Soul as well, worth a listen if you haven't already heard of it.
NathanRicaud
Well-Known Member
Power Of Soul would be an incredible Classics pick too! I love that album so much as well! It’s actually a really lavish album! I really hope VMP cover Idris Muhammad in the Classics track next year! I’d be all over it!
keylime_5
Well-Known Member
Just clicked with me that December Essentials could be Lady Sings the Blues and December Classics could be Diana Ross (and Diana Ross played Billie in the movie Lady Sings the Blues)
TCell
Well-Known Member
Here's my guess: Gábor Szabó - Bacchanal
Quite different than Sonny Rollins.
Came out in 1968.
On Skye records, which was formed by Szabó, Cal Tjader, Gary McFarland and Norman Schwartz.
Also in it's favour: Light in the Attic is reissuing his album Dreams - which also came out in 1968 on Skye - in October so I could imagine a variant exclusive to accompany it.
Quite different than Sonny Rollins.
Came out in 1968.
On Skye records, which was formed by Szabó, Cal Tjader, Gary McFarland and Norman Schwartz.
Also in it's favour: Light in the Attic is reissuing his album Dreams - which also came out in 1968 on Skye - in October so I could imagine a variant exclusive to accompany it.
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mitchwagz
Well-Known Member
I would much rather it be this album than the Jazz Composer’s Orchestra. Both seem like random ass albums to reissue though. I think the Gabor Szabó one seems most likely for the reason you stated.
NathanRicaud
Well-Known Member
@Selaws - Remember a few weeks ago you linked me Peter Brötzmann's Machine Gun and wanted to know my thoughts on it? Well, here are my thoughts on the album.
When I first played the Machine Gun, my reaction was a bit similar to @Mather in that I was like "What the actual fuck am I listening to?"! On my first listen, I couldn't even make it halfway through the first track - Machine Gun - as the music was too abrasive, chaotic, intense, hellish and the jazz playing on there had little to no melody. I was actually sweating a bit after my first listen because it just sounded like a nightmare coming into reality. My heart was actually racing!!!
Then, I thought I'd play the album a second time, especially as I quickly looked up the album on Wikipedia and saw all the glowing reviews the album had! The Penguin Jazz Guide gave it a perfect score and placed it in its core collection of jazz records. I thought to myself "Ok, surely I need to give Machine Gun another chance!". The next day, I played the album and for the most part, I didn't really enjoy it, although I was still very intrigued by the punk, aggressive and furious sound of the first track. Again, I couldn't make it through the whole album but I did listen to a bit more than I did the first time! And Selaws, you should've seen my face when I was listening to the first track - It was so expressive, like Mr. Bean's face! The violin shrieks, sharp horn blasts, pounding drums and the overall screaming saxophone playing had me doing so many ridiculous facial expressions; facial expressions that looked like if a baby ate a lemon for the first time! Hahaha
After the first track ended, I turned the album off as I endured a mini headache! I was like "this album is too hellish and brutal for me! It's too torture-y like for my ears! I've had enough". I was prepared to write back to you "Machine Gun is a noisy, aggressive, torture-like album that makes me ears bleed. I bloody hope it isn't the 1968 Classics ROTM pick"! But then, I thought to myself, "Selaws, the king of jazz, is telling me to listen to this album, and this album isn't getting perfect 5-star reviews from multiple magazines for no reason"!
So, I did my research! I learnt about how this album was created during warfare, and was like a protest album! The other musicians that played on Machine Gun were all radicals, according to Peter Brötzmann! After reading about the history and significance of this album, I was very excited to give the album a third chance/listen; a listen where I was more educated about that album!
After I heard the Machine Gun in full, tears started rolling down my face and I full on cried! The track 'Machine Gun' is the most relentless, furious, expressive, violent, unapologetic and insane song I have EVER heard! Although barely any rhythm is developed during the 17-minute length time of the song, the compositions and musicianship and endurance is seriously impressive! Even though the instruments sound quite demonic at times, as if they have been transformed into a weapon, there is something intensely beautiful about the song! It's metaphysically meaningful, in an animalistic way, and is one of the most authentic jazz songs I have ever heard! I am not sure i have ever been so moved by a song! The last time I cried to a song was when i heard Fiona Apple's Paper Bag in 2018, and the last time i cried before that was when I listened to a few tracks on Frank Ocean's Blonde in 2016 (Self Control & White Ferrari)!
Listening to Machine Gun is like having an extreme, military-style, dehumanzing, soul-cleansing detox! That's what Machine Gun is to me; a detox! I love the track so much, and I look very forward to the day when I play this album on vinyl, as I heard the full album (on my 4th listen) via a Bluetooth Speaker!
♥♥♥
When I first played the Machine Gun, my reaction was a bit similar to @Mather in that I was like "What the actual fuck am I listening to?"! On my first listen, I couldn't even make it halfway through the first track - Machine Gun - as the music was too abrasive, chaotic, intense, hellish and the jazz playing on there had little to no melody. I was actually sweating a bit after my first listen because it just sounded like a nightmare coming into reality. My heart was actually racing!!!
Then, I thought I'd play the album a second time, especially as I quickly looked up the album on Wikipedia and saw all the glowing reviews the album had! The Penguin Jazz Guide gave it a perfect score and placed it in its core collection of jazz records. I thought to myself "Ok, surely I need to give Machine Gun another chance!". The next day, I played the album and for the most part, I didn't really enjoy it, although I was still very intrigued by the punk, aggressive and furious sound of the first track. Again, I couldn't make it through the whole album but I did listen to a bit more than I did the first time! And Selaws, you should've seen my face when I was listening to the first track - It was so expressive, like Mr. Bean's face! The violin shrieks, sharp horn blasts, pounding drums and the overall screaming saxophone playing had me doing so many ridiculous facial expressions; facial expressions that looked like if a baby ate a lemon for the first time! Hahaha
After the first track ended, I turned the album off as I endured a mini headache! I was like "this album is too hellish and brutal for me! It's too torture-y like for my ears! I've had enough". I was prepared to write back to you "Machine Gun is a noisy, aggressive, torture-like album that makes me ears bleed. I bloody hope it isn't the 1968 Classics ROTM pick"! But then, I thought to myself, "Selaws, the king of jazz, is telling me to listen to this album, and this album isn't getting perfect 5-star reviews from multiple magazines for no reason"!
So, I did my research! I learnt about how this album was created during warfare, and was like a protest album! The other musicians that played on Machine Gun were all radicals, according to Peter Brötzmann! After reading about the history and significance of this album, I was very excited to give the album a third chance/listen; a listen where I was more educated about that album!
After I heard the Machine Gun in full, tears started rolling down my face and I full on cried! The track 'Machine Gun' is the most relentless, furious, expressive, violent, unapologetic and insane song I have EVER heard! Although barely any rhythm is developed during the 17-minute length time of the song, the compositions and musicianship and endurance is seriously impressive! Even though the instruments sound quite demonic at times, as if they have been transformed into a weapon, there is something intensely beautiful about the song! It's metaphysically meaningful, in an animalistic way, and is one of the most authentic jazz songs I have ever heard! I am not sure i have ever been so moved by a song! The last time I cried to a song was when i heard Fiona Apple's Paper Bag in 2018, and the last time i cried before that was when I listened to a few tracks on Frank Ocean's Blonde in 2016 (Self Control & White Ferrari)!
Listening to Machine Gun is like having an extreme, military-style, dehumanzing, soul-cleansing detox! That's what Machine Gun is to me; a detox! I love the track so much, and I look very forward to the day when I play this album on vinyl, as I heard the full album (on my 4th listen) via a Bluetooth Speaker!
♥♥♥
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Good review @NathanRicaud I think that was your most mature one to date. You've convinced me to give it another listen. Well done.
NathanRicaud
Well-Known Member
A tiny bit heart-broken that it's confirmed that Peter Brötzmann's Machine Gun will not be the 1968 Essentials pick, as I really treasure that album! It's just such a passionate, relentlessly thrilling, fiery, insane album that is so authentic! But, I am so happy I discovered this album thanks to the guesses on this thread and particularly @Selaws who turned my attention directly onto the album! ♥
I'll be giving Gábor Szabó - Bacchanal a listen soon, as it really does look like it will be the next Classics ROTM! Great sleuthing @TCell
I'll be giving Gábor Szabó - Bacchanal a listen soon, as it really does look like it will be the next Classics ROTM! Great sleuthing @TCell
tbh i dont even think machine gun is THAT intense... i mean my limit when it comes to intensity is merzbow and grindcore but there isn't enough dynamics (what matters more than loudness is the dynamics... going from quiet to OWWW MY EARS is what gets it going, or you just be fun) and i dont understand the themes or kind of thing they are trying to do... with jazz its just hard for me to imagine albums
NewsFedora
Well-Known Member
Wow, what a great way to describe the album. It wasn't quite as off-putting to me when I first heard it (having a college roommate who was a free jazz guitarist helped) but the intensity of it is simply impalpable. But there's a sense of structure in its chaos that leaves you coming back for a closer look.
I do hope it eventually gets the VMP treatment (or really any wider worldwide reissue) because it's something more people need to experience, although it's admittedly not for the faint of heart.
NathanRicaud
Well-Known Member
Listen to Machine Gun again! It's an absolutely brutal, abrasive album that is definitely intense! The fact that the saxaphone sounds like it's been turned into a weapon by the way the horns are blasting and screaming alone shows how intense the music is on this album! The pounding bass notes and just that ear-bleeding like, shrieking violin playing in their is also super intense! Machine Gun is like a death metal album in the form of jazz! It is a LOUD album that is abrasive, intense and unapologetic!
You said that with jazz, it's hard for you to imagine an album being 'intense'. If there ever is an intense jazz album, Machine Gun is it, just for the title 17-minute track alone!
And like @Selaws said, a lot of jazz heads cannot stand this album due to its destructive, abrasive nature!
maybe i just am not playing it loud enough.. i dont get the initial... punch of certain songs when they are loud... i mostly just have trouble understanding non lyrical stories in albums. like i know the emotional pains of a song like aimless arrow by converge mostly because i speak english and i lived in a home where i felt worthless like the protagonist, with most jazz there isn't really any lyrics of way of portraying the themes unless you try VERY hard to understand it and my brain just cant imagine how its a protest album
NathanRicaud
Well-Known Member
In regards to your last part of the sentence, I would say Machine Gun sounds like a protest album because of how loud the album sounds, especially with how the instruments are played! The music is very aggressive, and at times, sounds very anxious and claustrophobic, in the sense like you are getting strangled! During a demonstration/protest, you relentlessly fight for your right or try and get a particular message across, and with how expressive and relentless and 'enough is enough' Machine Gun is, it couldn't sound more like a protest album! It's got the 'angry, flame-throwing' protest sound behind it! Very different to a politically charged/protest album like Solange's A Seat At The Table, which is graceful, elegant and peaceful even though it demands/commands you to stand up!