Television

A show like Succession has even less likeable characters yet they were played so wonderfully by the actors, the more I watched the more I became invested. With Mad Men, I liked quite a few of the characters initially and the style of the show kept me interested even before the storylines pulled me in.
That's true and I love Succession as well. It feels really different to me though as it seems more set up to really marvel at how horrible they are in a sometimes darkly comedic way. Pretty thrilling along the way as well.

Perhaps my perspective has changed and I would appreciate Mad Men more today than I did 8 years ago or so. I dunno if I could convince my wife to give it another chance though!
 
Mad Men is my favorite show probably ever. I see it as one of the most richly detailed, rewarding, novelistic shows of the era. And although Don and many characters could be labeled anti-heroes I guess, to me thats not quite the point. The point is to showcase the depths of these characters; with all of their flaws. Because that’s more accurate for people in general. People aren’t simply good or bad, there’s so much nuance and contradictions within everyone. This show shows that deeply, and then pushed you to feel some sense of sympathy for anyone. Peggy is your likeliest source of an actual hero, but even she contains layers of flaws. And for as bad as Don can be to people, there’s something weirdly sympathetic about his backstory and how he handles it - which I guess is an unpopular opinion. And well maybe it’s not entirely sympathy, but there’s some element that draws me into his psyche that I find so fascinating. I think other shows being discussed here do the same thing. But for me Mad Men has always been the one on top.

I think Breaking Bad is great, but yeah it’s clear to me how much I don’t like Walt when watching it again. But that’s not really the point? The point is more the decline of him as a person. And for as much heartbreak and sympathy I and many feel towards Jesse, he’s still a really fucked up character to root for. But there’s at least an element of him wanting out, or wanting to change, almost the reverse of Walt. That’s in interesting dynamic to watch unfold.

I’m still slowly making my way through The Sopranos so I can’t fully comment on anything yet. But from the get-go it is clear to me that this show is doing what the others did, but it came first. And it’s more obvious that Tony is a piece of a shit, but it’s almost slowly drawing you in to make you feel something for him...and then bam he does something inexcusably bad again. It’s a lot of fun to feel that as you watch it.

On a completely different level, the show Girls always got criticism for having unlikable characters. But that’s the draw! It’s showing incredibly narcissistic, flawed hipsters and pushing you to get involved in their self-absorbed lives. It’s also a comedy, so once you get into its groove, it becomes easier and easier to just laugh at everybody for how bad they are. Again, not everyone’s cup of tea, but I find a lot to like in it.

I guess the more I see it, these shows are flipping your expectations and asking you to watch “bad” people on purpose, to give you something new. Protagonists are often the heroes, but they don’t necessarily have to be. You don’t have to root for someone or relate to something for it to be impactful, interesting, and brilliant.
 
Mad Men is my favorite show probably ever. I see it as one of the most richly detailed, rewarding, novelistic shows of the era. And although Don and many characters could be labeled anti-heroes I guess, to me thats not quite the point. The point is to showcase the depths of these characters; with all of their flaws. Because that’s more accurate for people in general. People aren’t simply good or bad, there’s so much nuance and contradictions within everyone. This show shows that deeply, and then pushed you to feel some sense of sympathy for anyone. Peggy is your likeliest source of an actual hero, but even she contains layers of flaws. And for as bad as Don can be to people, there’s something weirdly sympathetic about his backstory and how he handles it - which I guess is an unpopular opinion. And well maybe it’s not entirely sympathy, but there’s some element that draws me into his psyche that I find so fascinating. I think other shows being discussed here do the same thing. But for me Mad Men has always been the one on top.

I think Breaking Bad is great, but yeah it’s clear to me how much I don’t like Walt when watching it again. But that’s not really the point? The point is more the decline of him as a person. And for as much heartbreak and sympathy I and many feel towards Jesse, he’s still a really fucked up character to root for. But there’s at least an element of him wanting out, or wanting to change, almost the reverse of Walt. That’s in interesting dynamic to watch unfold.

I’m still slowly making my way through The Sopranos so I can’t fully comment on anything yet. But from the get-go it is clear to me that this show is doing what the others did, but it came first. And it’s more obvious that Tony is a piece of a shit, but it’s almost slowly drawing you in to make you feel something for him...and then bam he does something inexcusably bad again. It’s a lot of fun to feel that as you watch it.

On a completely different level, the show Girls always got criticism for having unlikable characters. But that’s the draw! It’s showing incredibly narcissistic, flawed hipsters and pushing you to get involved in their self-absorbed lives. It’s also a comedy, so once you get into its groove, it becomes easier and easier to just laugh at everybody for how bad they are. Again, not everyone’s cup of tea, but I find a lot to like in it.

I guess the more I see it, these shows are flipping your expectations and asking you to watch “bad” people on purpose, to give you something new. Protagonists are often the heroes, but they don’t necessarily have to be. You don’t have to root for someone or relate to something for it to be impactful, interesting, and brilliant.
Completely agree about Girls. That show was very polarizing to many but I absolutely loved it. It was a reflection of the self-obsessed nature of white upper middle class millennials and though I was always more on the lower middle class part of the socio-economic scale many of the barbs the show delivered were very relatable, If not directly than to people I knew or was friends with. Who better to laugh at than yourself?
 
I liked season 1 of Girls mostly, when season 2 came out I powered through it even though I started to not be excited for new episodes. I remember watching the first episode of season 3 and just hating it. I... do not look fondly on that show. I have not seen it since so my views could change again.
 
I liked season 1 of Girls mostly, when season 2 came out I powered through it even though I started to not be excited for new episodes. I remember watching the first episode of season 3 and just hating it. I... do not look fondly on that show. I have not seen it since so my views could change again.
I had mixed feelings about it as well but generally enjoyed it the first couple seasons. Then, in the words of Mike Eagle, "Looked up what Lena Dunham said and I shouldn't have!" too many times and got less interested in watching her or her show.
 
I had mixed feelings about it as well but generally enjoyed it the first couple seasons. Then, in the words of Mike Eagle, "Looked up what Lena Dunham said and I shouldn't have!" too many times and got less interested in watching her or her show.
Yeah, I don't like Lena Dunham at all. All of her controversial things she's done/said have been nails in the coffin for me ever wanting to go back and finish it.

This is no longer an active twitter but worth a scroll to see some good ones

 
Yeah, I don't like Lena Dunham at all. All of her controversial things she's done/said have been nails in the coffin for me ever wanting to go back and finish it.

This is no longer an active twitter but worth a scroll to see some good ones

I was so un-attached from what she said or has done in her life that I never knew about anything honestly. Just watched the show
 
Sopranos finale thoughts now that I've watched it all the way through again. I'll put it in spoilers.

I don't know how else the show should have ended for Tony. Any official wrap-up wouldn't have made sense in my opinion. We know that no matter what was resolved with other families, the dispensing of Phil being the last one we saw, the nature of this is for some other boss to get unhappy and continue the cycle of discontentment and eventual violence between families to deal with that.

Through the run of the show we had already seen so many highs and lows for Tony, so what else could you do besides kill him, or leave it as it started? It was a glimpse into his life without a real beginning or end.

It's not like him winning a big bet, or losing a friend, getting shot, or separating from Carmela would have signified any end, as we saw all of that happen throughout its run.

I obviously don't know if he was about to be killed when the door opened and he looked up, nothing led me to believe it was imminent at that moment, so I don't think so.

Also, I don't know if the final season's story about Junior was meant to shed light on how bad it can be for unloved patients in state homes, but his life was dismal and clearly he was just going to sit there until he passed. Is it easier for him that he doesn't even remember his life anymore? That's such a sad ending for him.
 
Catching up on For All Mankind; the first couple episodes are deeply uneven, mostly thanks to aimless and mediocre direction by Seth Gordon, but the following couple have been pleasantly strong, and I’m really starting to get into it. There’s more rigor given to the concept than I expected.
 
Catching up on For All Mankind; the first couple episodes are deeply uneven, mostly thanks to aimless and mediocre direction by Seth Gordon, but the following couple have been pleasantly strong, and I’m really starting to get into it. There’s more rigor given to the concept than I expected.
Definitely agree. Took us a good 3-4 episodes for it to fully engage. Looking forward to the new season starting tomorrow
 
In And Of Itself on Hulu is fantastic. An incredible one person show. Definitely watch when not distracted.
 
But yesterday i watched the documentary Song Exploder. It's about how musicians wrote some of their hits. It is really, REALLY interesting. First season has Alicia Keys, REM, Ty Dollar Sign and Lin Manuel Miranda; next week there'll be another four episodes: Nine Inch Nails, The Killers, Natalia Lafourcade and Dua Lipa.
We watched the Nine Inch Nails and Killers one last night. Really enjoyed them. Going to watch REM and Lin Manuel Miranda tonight. The NIN one made me realize I made a horrible mistake not going to see them in concert a few years ago in San Antonio.
 
I'm worried Wandavision is falling into the same trap as The Mandalorian did, succeeding by eliding the Larger Franchise Trappings of Connected Universe Storytelling, then ultimately succumbing to them.
 
It was always going to be connected to the larger universe. They're two existing characters from the MCU. It's supposedly a setup series for the Dr Strange movie.
I get that. I guess I mean that both those shows really succeeded when they focused on just being the shows they were, operating on a relatively self-contained scale and unique tone. Then the larger cinematic universe and lorehound-pandering come in, the show becomes focused on getting the bus to the next terminal, and my eyes glaze over.
 
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