Political Discussion

AnthonyI said:
I hate that our country ended up in this situation, and I hate that it did most likely because of non-voters. That being said, it's bad enough Trump is in the White House, but it's even worse that the Dems are starting to really look like a bunch of buffoons on top of it. As much as my gut is really in the "Anyone but Trump" mode, I pray to God that Bloomy is not the other option when the time comes.

It's become "anyone but Trump" for the Oval Office and now we have an "Anyone but Bloomberg" under card. At this point, any real change is going to take time and a couple of new Presidents, I'm convinced of it, but I would like to start off on a semi sane foot with the next Commander and Chief.

Frustrating and aggravating times............
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The combination of Trump + Bernie is exposing them as the buffoonish goons they've long been. By that I mean, Mike is shining a spotlight of hypocrisy on the fact that DNC outrage over Trump's racism and misogyny was entirety manufactured and by making it clear that their donor class prioritizes stopping Bernie over defeating Trump.

I think 2016 served as an epiphany for a lot of people my age. Bloomberg (thankfully) seems to be doing the same thing for my father (who luke-warmly supported Bernie in 2016 is also very much the NYT/WaPo's target audience). He is fucking livid over that rule change and horrified at how quickly the DNC is getting behind Mike.
 
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I did manage to get my father of all people to admit earlier today he'd rather have Sanders over Bloomberg. Admittedly he thinks Sanders is a USSR-ophile who could be easily blocked by Congress BUT even he thinks Bloomberg is scum trying to buy the election, and I think that's the angle Fox and Limbaugh are pushing. Really weird situation that Republican Talking Heads are pushing against the most Trump-esque """""Dem"""""" candidate.
 
jaycee said:
You don't know what this means.

It is easier for white males to chose not to vote than it is for the people most deeply impacted by the Trump administration.
It is convenient for the people with the privilege and access to say "I won't vote" because I don't want to make a choice.
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I agreed with everything you said up until this. I think this last bit is more complicated. For example, most of the never Bloomberg types I know (or at least the most vocal ones) are POC in their 30’s.

To them, Bloomberg is a point of no return into oligarchy where as Trump part 2 leaves open the possibility of a swing left. Basically shit is already deeply fucked for them and so maybe white people need to suffer more. Because until everyone gets is suffering will white people wake the hell up and abandon neoliberalism.

I see a lot of truth in this but two huge problems. 1) RGB 2) Trump’s rapidly evolving authoritarianism
 
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DownIsTheNewUp said:
I agreed with everything you said up until this. I think this last bit is more complicated. For example, most of the never Bloomberg types I know (or at least the most vocal ones) are POC in their 30’s.

To them, Bloomberg is a point of no return into oligarchy where as Trump part 2 leaves open the possibility of a swing left. Basically shit is already deeply fucked for them and so maybe white people need to suffer more. Because until everyone gets is suffering will white people wake the hell up and abandon neoliberalism.

I see a lot of truth in this but two huge problems. 1) RGB 2) Trump’s rapidly evolving authoritarianism
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Most of the pro Bloomberg types I know are POC older than 40.

White straight males are less impacted regardless of who is in office.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not the Sanders campaign specifically has taken on an attitude of young white males that have the privilege to say if we don't get our way we are bailing out of the political process. I'm not saying this is your personal attitude nor that of the candidate. There are many many many very liberal even progressive people that are taking the attitude that was expressed here yesterday that if we don't get our way then we are going to take our toys and go home. This attitude, regardless of the evils perpetuated by neoliberalism, is one of privilege. I hope that progressive people figure it out that throwing the baby out with the bath water is a pointless endeavor that does more harm than good.

Again, I voted for Bernie in my state's primary because the policies most closely align with what I feel is best for people as a whole, but the campaign has turned many people off here in MN and I assume in other parts of the Midwest. Maybe this doesn't matter if enough young folks turn-out and maybe if Bernie becomes the candidate some of the fears people have about him will fade.... BUT the primarily young white male progressive tears (aka threats of not voting) that are getting thrown around here and other places online are ignoring the privilege that comes with their tailwind. They will be OK, physically, whether or not Trump is in office. The same can not be said for other people.

No one should accept a Bloomberg candidacy as anything other than what it is. No one should stop being critical of the money in the left and all of the evil it perpetuates, but if you are a straight white male you have a moral obligation to be an ally, even if that means eating a turd sandwich before you take your toys home and go play by yourself.
 
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Early voting in my area starts next week.

I might look into it this year. I didn't do it in 2018 as it was really inconvenient. I would have had to take time off from work to visit city hall during their hours of operations verses hitting the polls early in the morning on my way into work
 
RenegadeMonster said:
Early voting in my area starts next week.

I might look into it this year. I didn't do it in 2018 as it was really inconvenient. I would have had to take time off from work to visit city hall during their hours of operations verses hitting the polls early in the morning on my way into work
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MA doesn't make it easy on you but it does look like there is a form you can mail in. There is also a number on the linked page above you can call to get more info.

Salem doesn't seem to have any info about early voting (just absentee) but you might want to call the city clerk too just to hear what they tell you.

User account | salemma

www.salem.com www.salem.com
 
RenegadeMonster said:
Early voting in my area starts next week.

I might look into it this year. I didn't do it in 2018 as it was really inconvenient. I would have had to take time off from work to visit city hall during their hours of operations verses hitting the polls early in the morning on my way into work
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Do you guys do early voting by mail? It really is the best, voting by mail.
 
Curious how the commutation of Blagojevich will go over with the rural republicans in Illinois.

They HATED the guy - He was a democrat and from Chicago.

Now to see him get out is a slap in their face. I don't see Trump winning over anyone here.
 
Twentytwo said:
Trix may be for kids, but America is for rich white elites.
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America is founded on the principle that some lives, white landowning males, are more valuable than other lives.

Capitalism is a set of tools that are used to perpetuate those principles.

Religions are dangerous systems of thought that places humans (usually straight men) above all other life forms.

Globalism is the perpetuation of market-based organized crime that promotes the principles America was founded upon....
some people (and places) must be injured so that others can get what they want.
 
ayayrawn said:
"Blue no matter who" is a disengagement campaign meant to turn enthusiastic voters into resigned box checkers, and I refuse to fall for it.
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I interpret "Blue no matter who" as "don't forget that the President nominates Supreme Court Justices." Most of any administration's policies can be course-corrected, but a lifetime seat in the court impacts a generation.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
I listened to the second one of these over the weekend. I wish they had spent more time on Ryan Grim’s tweet, both as a strategic device (the “why did he tweet this NOW?” question, which they discussed a little) and about how true it actually is. So much of the turmoil right now is about centrism vs. progressivism, and electability, and not about how a policy agenda will actually work. If Bernie has a plan for his agenda, great, we should be talking more about it; but if Grim is just saying the quiet parts out loud here, then what’s the point, y’know? I don’t say that as a knock against Bernie, but it’s a part of the conversation that I think we need to have. The election is the first step, not the finish line, and the primary makes us lose sight of that.
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As somebody who has seen Grim speak in person at a well known activists house last fall, I can confirm Liz’s remark that he is a Warren guy who prefers Bernie to centrists.

But as I’ve said elsewhere in this thread, I think most Bernie supporters who are actually down in the trenches realize that while Bernie has a clear plan of action to get things like student debt and marijuana legalization through... in regards to others, it’s about starting the negotiations on the far left instead of the Obama tactic of starting in the center and getting dragged right by Republicans. And then of course, there is the firm belief that Bernie is step one in reforming the DNC (via a new chair and cabinet) and that we fully realize local elections of all sorts are going to have to be dug into. We also believe Sanders will provide a guiding hand to activists and transparent focalization of the opposition. Ie the exact opposite of Obama.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
Yeah, I agree with you that I think activists understand this. My concern is that part of the pitch to voters is that he can make these things actually happen.

It's not a problem with Bernie, per se. It's just a tough political needle to thread. How do you protect yourself from disappointing the electorate without tipping your hand that you're just staking out a position for the start of negotiations?
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I agree it will be difficult. He is going to have the entire establishment lined up against him should he win. But as I sort of alluded to, I think the key is that he will be very transparent with America while in office and orchestrating pressure via grassroots organizing. “Are you angry that they won’t pass X”— points finger at various Dems— lets make it clear they must change their stance or we will vote them out. That’s the way I’ve always interpreted “us not me” and it’s backed up in the way he functioned as mayor.

Meanwhile, the things he can get done via executive action and the such (Daca, marijuana, student debt) or lead by example internationally (climate change, foreign policy) should be more than enough to appease his base in the short term.
 
jaycee said:
Most of the pro Bloomberg types I know are POC older than 40.

White straight males are less impacted regardless of who is in office.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not the Sanders campaign specifically has taken on an attitude of young white males that have the privilege to say if we don't get our way we are bailing out of the political process. I'm not saying this is your personal attitude nor that of the candidate. There are many many many very liberal even progressive people that are taking the attitude that was expressed here yesterday that if we don't get our way then we are going to take our toys and go home. This attitude, regardless of the evils perpetuated by neoliberalism, is one of privilege. I hope that progressive people figure it out that throwing the baby out with the bath water is a pointless endeavor that does more harm than good.

Again, I voted for Bernie in my state's primary because the policies most closely align with what I feel is best for people as a whole, but the campaign has turned many people off here in MN and I assume in other parts of the Midwest. Maybe this doesn't matter if enough young folks turn-out and maybe if Bernie becomes the candidate some of the fears people have about him will fade.... BUT the primarily young white male progressive tears (aka threats of not voting) that are getting thrown around here and other places online are ignoring the privilege that comes with their tailwind. They will be OK, physically, whether or not Trump is in office. The same can not be said for other people.

No one should accept a Bloomberg candidacy as anything other than what it is. No one should stop being critical of the money in the left and all of the evil it perpetuates, but if you are a straight white male you have a moral obligation to be an ally, even if that means eating a turd sandwich before you take your toys home and go play by yourself.
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Except, again, Bernie’s base in actually made up mostly of young people of color / young females. White, straight men are the least likely to be supporting him of people under 40. Or so says the data. So perhaps the interpretation should be that there is a huge generational gap that has to do with the plethora of issues facing young people that older whites are insulated from.

www.salon.com

“Bernie Bro” myth persists because pundits don’t understand Twitter

A misunderstanding of social media psychology is driving media elites to keep pushing an easily disprovable stereotype
www.salon.com www.salon.com
 
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