Kanye

[Bull Shannon]

How Great is Our God, Blessings, and the intro were really the only ones from Coloring Book imo. I could be forgetting a song or two tho

I'd recommend going back to both of Chance's recent albums and taking note of the lyrics which evoke god/faith despite not being those you cited as having titles overtly about god or faith. Also, the sound across many songs evokes gospel, even if the song isn't about God.

 

[Woob_woob]

That was a gross generalization on my part. I just think over the last 20 years religion has gone from being priority in the house to a back burner IN MOST HOMES.

If you make X number of albums that are all about you, and then an album that is all about a new purpose in your life, I think you should expect that the reviews are going to be about you to a great extent, too.

And I have no problem with that being part of the review but most of the reviews I've seen barely talk about the music at all.

 

[Jonathan Y]

I...don’t think I agree. The book Kanye is ostensibly preaching from has a whole lot to say about false prophets and purveyors of faith with ulterior motives. But I also come from a non-Catholic tradition that is historically a lot less comfortable with having someone mediate my relationship with God, too.

You are judging/questioning his faith and motives? Instead of being "a desciple of Christ who is in service to God" (his words) you think it's not genuine.

Yea, this is a big reason why some people get uncomfortable about sharing their religious beliefs or ideas. He actually mentions ppl having this opnion ^^ in 'No Hands' I believe

Are their kids that get made fun of for being any denomination of religion? Yes, more so now a days.

Could a bullied kid pull a Kanye card out when getting made fun of? Yes, that is my opinion. Maybe that was worded wrong originally idk

 

[Jonathan Y]

I'd recommend going back to both of Chance's recent albums and taking note of the lyrics which evoke god/faith despite not being those you cited as having titles overtly about god or faith. Also, the sound across many songs evokes gospel, even if the song isn't about God.

I will spin Coloring Book when I get home, as I mentioned I could be forgetting some. Hoping you could share, but I will do my homework lol

No problems, Juke Jam, All Night, Mixtape, Same Drugs, Smoke Break dont for me

I will relisten to Angels, Finish Line, and Summer Friends tho

 

[Indymisanthrope]

You are judging/questioning his faith and motives? Instead of being "a desciple of Christ who is in service to God" (his words) you think it's not genuine.

Yea, this is a big reason why some people get uncomfortable about sharing their religious beliefs or ideas.

Are their kids that get made fun of for being any denomination of religion? Yes, more so now a days.

Could a bullied kid pull a Kanye card out when getting made fun of? Yes, that is my opinion. Maybe that was worded wrong originally idk

Well, I think my comment was really aimed at the idea that it’s okay for kids to “hide behind” his faith as an entry point and/or filter through which they learn about Christianity. Mostly, I think that’s not a great thing, IMO, because above all I think Kanye is

[brace for impact]

kinda dumb.

His portrayal of Christianity in song heavily suggests to me that he doesn’t have a very good understanding of it.

 

[BjorgenFjorgen]

You are judging/questioning his faith and motives? Instead of being "a desciple of Christ who is in service to God" (his words) you think it's not genuine.

Yea, this is a big reason why some people get uncomfortable about sharing their religious beliefs or ideas. He actually mentions ppl having this opnion ^^ in 'No Hands' I believe

Are their kids that get made fun of for being any denomination of religion? Yes, more so now a days.

Could a bullied kid pull a Kanye card out when getting made fun of? Yes, that is my opinion. Maybe that was worded wrong originally idk

He might be genuine. No real way to know someone else's relationship to God, and I would never presume to try. He might also be as misguided as most modern evangelicals, who knows. But a $165+ hoodie with the words "Holy Spirit" plastered across it sold under a tent that says "Church Clothes" calls to mind some sellers of doves in a certain temple, I dunno.

 

[Jonathan Y]

His portrayal of Christianity in song heavily suggests to me that he doesn’t have a very good understanding of it.

Yes, as a born again Christian I was expecting base-level lines, and that is what he got. Does that mean it's not genuine? I don't think so. I think it's fresh and exciting and he wants to share. I don't think lack of knowledge should disqualify him, and like I mentioned before, makes it more accessible to born-agains, converts, etc. It's basic, not heavy scripture.

Also, God doesn't care how u arrive, as long as u show up

He has employees (much like a church that collects the offering) So yea I imagine the people traveling the country are happy people are buying religious merch to fund their project and lives! Is it corny? Yea? Does it seem like a money grab? Yes, but I think he needed it for the ppl involved. Coachella had like 300 singers it seemed throughout the entire crowd @BjorgenFjorgen

 

[Memo]

Well, I think my comment was really aimed at the idea that it’s okay for kids to “hide behind” his faith as an entry point and/or filter through which they learn about Christianity. Mostly, I think that’s not a great thing, IMO, because above all I think Kanye is

[brace for impact]

kinda dumb.

His portrayal of Christianity in song heavily suggests to me that he doesn’t have a very good understanding of it.

This is also could be attributed to a 'new believer'. It would be great to see him mature in his faith and see where he takes his music.
He's definitely changed, and there's a freedom in his voice and mannerism that cannot be faked.

If other people view this as an entry way, rather than as a substitute, then it serves it's purpose.
Butit begs the question, where is the heart more positioned towards, Kanye or God.

 

[Indymisanthrope]

calls to mind some sellers of doves in a certain temple, I dunno.

FWIW historical Jesus scholars disagree wildly on the significance of that story for a first century audience. Modern readings usually make the assumption that the money changers were somehow being greedy, dishonest, or were profaning the temple somehow, but many scholars believe that they provided a necessary and widely appreciated service, and that Jesus’ motives in that story are very difficult to understand definitively from the texts.

 

[Jonathan Y]

FWIW historical Jesus scholars disagree wildly on the significance of that story for a first century audience. Modern readings usually make the assumption that the money changers were somehow being greedy, dishonest, or were profaning the temple somehow, but many scholars believe that they provided a necessary and widely appreciated service, and that Jesus’ motives in that story are very difficult to understand definitively from the texts.

I mean theres pope foam fingers, pennants, hats, beer steins, and more for John Paul II rest his soul

Not sure who i agree or disagree with LOL (i gotta get back to work) just thought of the baseball like PJII pennant i used to have

 

[BjorgenFjorgen]

FWIW historical Jesus scholars disagree wildly on the significance of that story for a first century audience. Modern readings usually make the assumption that the money changers were somehow being greedy, dishonest, or were profaning the temple somehow, but many scholars believe that they provided a necessary and widely appreciated service, and that Jesus’ motives in that story are very difficult to understand definitively from the texts.

That's, um, an interesting interpretation, but I will go read some of them and leave it at that.

 

[BjorgenFjorgen]

I mean theres pope foam fingers, pennants, hats, beer steins, and more for John Paul II rest his soul

Yeah, more than one thing in the world can be dog shit.

 

[Indymisanthrope]

Yes, as a born again Christian I was expecting base-level lines, and that is what he got. Does that mean it's not genuine? I don't think so. I think it's fresh and exciting and he wants to share. I don't think lack of knowledge should disqualify him, and like I mentioned before, makes it more accessible to born-agains, converts, etc. It's basic, not heavy scripture.

Also, God doesn't care how u arrive, as long as u show up

This is also could be attributed to a 'new believer'. It would be great to see him mature in his faith and see where he takes his music.
He's definitely changed, and there's a freedom in his voice and mannerism that cannot be faked.

But acknowledging that you lack a nuanced understanding is a lot different from boldly proclaiming that you know who God/Jesus is or does or why certain things happen the way they do. I think a lot of his lyrics on this album veer pretty deeply into Prosperity Gospel territory, which I think is a stain on America and Christianity in general.

And wait. Just a few days ago we were all agreeing that there have always been Christian themes in his music. “Jesus Walks,” right? He’s always been familiar with Christianity. A renewed commitment to his faith doesn’t mean that he just suddenly forgets everything he ever knew about it. He’s dumb.

 

[Indymisanthrope]

That's, um, an interesting interpretation, but I will go read some of them and leave it at that.

Yeah, tbh I don’t remember all the ins and outs, it’s just one of the things that sticks in my head from college courses. The scholars who apply the historical-critical method are all about trying to re-examine the text as the product of a time from which we’re so divorced, our understanding of it is almost completely compromised. I LOVED those classes.

 

[Jonathan Y]

But acknowledging that you lack a nuanced understanding is a lot different from boldly proclaiming that you know who God/Jesus is or does or why certain things happen the way they do. I think a lot of his lyrics on this album veer pretty deeply into Prosperity Gospel territory, which I think is a stain on America and Christianity in general.

And wait. Just a few days ago we were all agreeing that there have always been Christian themes in his music. “Jesus Walks,” right? He’s always been familiar with Christianity. A renewed commitment to his faith doesn’t mean that he just suddenly forgets everything he ever knew about it. He’s dumb.

See, as this album sinks in I have come to believe/think Jesus Walks was the idea ur alluding to. that is why the full circle moment is great. He questioned whether talking about God would work and now look at him. I think that was him not being genuine....then God continually smacked him all while keeping him afloat, he almost died, his mom died, he lost his popularity, almost lost his wife, etc.

This time I think he realizes why and how he has his wife, his kids, and support still.

Only time will tell! This has been a solid discussion tho! I like to think about it from all angles!

 

[Memo]

But acknowledging that you lack a nuanced understanding is a lot different from boldly proclaiming that you know who God/Jesus is or does or why certain things happen the way they do. I think a lot of his lyrics on this album veer pretty deeply into Prosperity Gospel territory, which I think is a stain on America and Christianity in general.

And wait. Just a few days ago we were all agreeing that there have always been Christian themes in his music. “Jesus Walks,” right? He’s always been familiar with Christianity. A renewed commitment to his faith doesn’t mean that he just suddenly forgets everything he ever knew about it. He’s dumb.

Very true, I also get vibes from a more prosperity message. In music and interviews.
But him worshiping because of the changes, despite his lack of understanding, is beautiful imo.

I mean, that was a little over 15 years ago. I can get behind him actually forgetting what he knew or what he was passionate about.

 

[Woob_woob]

Very true, I also get vibes from a more prosperity message. In music and interviews.
But him worshiping because of the changes, despite his lack of understanding, is beautiful imo.

I mean, that was a little over 15 years ago. I can get behind him actually forgetting what he knew or what he was passionate about.

I mean theres more to Kanyes views on religion in his music than just Jesus Walks, it's always been one of the stronger themes in his music imo. Jik just hits you in the face with it more than normal.

 

[Memo]

Great! So he's right in between too christian and not christian enough lolol

Also, good for Kanye for igniting these coversations not just here but everywhere!

 

[Indymisanthrope]

The problem here is a false equivalency. Walking up to a microphone and shouting that you’re practicing a religion is not the same thing as practicing that religion.

I mean, if I were telling you all about how you should all be vegetarians like me in between bites of my chicken nuggets, you wouldn’t tell me it’s nice to see that I at least have the desire to do the right thing. Or that maybe I forgot how vegetarianism works. Or that it’s okay because I’m new to it. Or that it’s cool that the kids are following my example even if we’re getting some of the details wrong.

You’d tell me I’m doing it wrong and that I should spend less time talking and more time listening until I figure it out.

(Analogy is an inherently flawed form of argument. Don’t get hung up on that part.)

 

[Woob_woob]

The problem here is a false equivalency. Walking up to a microphone and shouting that you’re practicing a religion is not the same thing as practicing that religion.

I mean, if I were telling you all about how you should all be vegetarians like me in between bites of my chicken nuggets, you wouldn’t tell me it’s nice to see that I at least have the desire to do the right thing. Or that maybe I forgot how vegetarianism works. Or that it’s okay because I’m new to it. Or that it’s cool that the kids are following my example even if we’re getting some of the details wrong.

You’d tell me I’m doing it wrong and that I should spend less time talking and more time listening until I figure it out.

(Analogy is an inherently flawed form of argument. Don’t get hung up on that part.)

I see what you're saying and mostly agree, but what I dont agree on is that there is a "correct" way to practice a faith