Hot Take/ Musical Confession Thread!

wokeupnew said:
I truly cannot find a "Your Fave is Problematic" thread. I thought we had one here but maybe not. So this thread is reasonably close to that one. @mods please move to that thread if it's titled something that I have not found via search.

So what are everyone's thoughts on Pinegrove? They released a new song and have an album coming out.

www.stereogum.com

Pinegrove Sign To Rough Trade, Share New Song "Moment": Listen

It’s been a turbulent time for Pinegrove, the New Jersey indie rock band. In 2017, frontman Evan Stephens Hall put out a statement apologizing for his behavior with women, cancelled the band’s tour, and delayed the release of the album Skylight. Hall acknowledged that he’d been accused of sexual...
www.stereogum.com www.stereogum.com

The comments over on the Stereogum piece kinda sum up my thoughts. Like, everyone has to work with what info there is out there about the whole situation. We don't know if there's still some info that's not being shared. Some people on twitter are cryptic about the band/Evan still being abusers, but provide no insight into why they should not be supported/trusted. Evan himself realized his problems and decided to pursue help and make reprimands for his actions. He didn't murder anyone, the victims seem to be okay with what has transpired and they're back now. If he did something significantly worse like murder or sexual assault/rape I'd say good riddance. But he has not. Does cancel culture go too far for minor transgressions on the scale of abusive behavior? Reflecting on one's actions, trying to change behavior and become a better person, should society give someone a second chance?
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Yeah, but to each his or her own. If people put in the work and demonstrate through their actions that hey’ve changed and are contrite. Then to continue punishing them is absurd but everyone levels are different and if folks wanna hold a grudge (without being vindictive) then they are certainly entitled to that. I try to separate art from the asshole and usually do a good job of it. I still enjoy Annie Hall and Chinatown but I wouldn’t even piss on Woody Allen or Roman Polanski if they were on fire.
 
wokeupnew said:
I truly cannot find a "Your Fave is Problematic" thread. I thought we had one here but maybe not. So this thread is reasonably close to that one. @mods please move to that thread if it's titled something that I have not found via search.

So what are everyone's thoughts on Pinegrove? They released a new song and have an album coming out.

www.stereogum.com

Pinegrove Sign To Rough Trade, Share New Song "Moment": Listen

It’s been a turbulent time for Pinegrove, the New Jersey indie rock band. In 2017, frontman Evan Stephens Hall put out a statement apologizing for his behavior with women, cancelled the band’s tour, and delayed the release of the album Skylight. Hall acknowledged that he’d been accused of sexual...
www.stereogum.com www.stereogum.com

The comments over on the Stereogum piece kinda sum up my thoughts. Like, everyone has to work with what info there is out there about the whole situation. We don't know if there's still some info that's not being shared. Some people on twitter are cryptic about the band/Evan still being abusers, but provide no insight into why they should not be supported/trusted. Evan himself realized his problems and decided to pursue help and make reprimands for his actions. He didn't murder anyone, the victims seem to be okay with what has transpired and they're back now. If he did something significantly worse like murder or sexual assault/rape I'd say good riddance. But he has not. Does cancel culture go too far for minor transgressions on the scale of abusive behavior? Reflecting on one's actions, trying to change behavior and become a better person, should society give someone a second chance?
Click to expand...
I’m so sick of cancel culture and its purveyors. At this point folks are just searching for their next targets for the rush it gives them. They prove how often the cure is worse than the disease.
 
Chucktshoes said:
I’m so sick of cancel culture and its purveyors. At this point folks are just searching for their next targets for the rush it gives them. They prove how often the cure is worse than the disease.
Click to expand...
My issue with cancel culture is how innocuous it can be. Oh no! Someone made an edgy joke a decade ago! Let's ruin their career because people can't possibly change and improve over the course of 10 years
 
Chucktshoes said:
I’m so sick of cancel culture and its purveyors. At this point folks are just searching for their next targets for the rush it gives them. They prove how often the cure is worse than the disease.
Click to expand...
yes and no. People like Bill Cosby, Louis CK, Harvey Weinstein deserve everything that came for them. But what cancel culture doesn't have or hasn't developed yet is how do these people come back from those accusations if they've made changes or are trying to right their wrongs. How do people who've done "less severe" things like this Pinegrove situation or Aziz Ansari? They're shitty situations and they have done bad things, but they don't deserve to be 100% cancelled. How does culture take them back, resolve what they've done so they can carry on creating things that people enjoy?

People love to say "let's cancel Pinegrove" because they read a headline two years ago without any context of the situation. Same thing happened with Conor Oberst back in '13 or '14 (I think). Someone had accused him of raping a fan after a show but they later came forward and said it was all a lie. Can you imagine what would have happened to Conor had that accusation came out today? oh boy. He'd never fully recover.

Cancel culture is too quick to judge depending on the severity of the situation. Sexual coercion (Pinegrove, Aziz) is absolutely not the same thing as sexual assault or worse. They shouldn't be lumped into the same "let's cancel [artist] because of this thing' every single time they're mentioned or brought up. People also love to be on the side of right vs. wrong. And it's easier to deny an artist space and time of day instead of finding a way to work them back into culture or a music scene.

I am no way endorsing problematic artists, but there's a line that needs to be managed well if you really enjoy their work and want to feel okay about listening/watching it again. It's tough.

Count_Vader said:
My issue with cancel culture is how innocuous it can be. Oh no! Someone made an edgy joke a decade ago! Let's ruin their career because people can't possibly change and improve over the course of 10 years
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this too. We'd all be cancelled for things we've said or done years ago. Context is key.
 
wokeupnew said:
yes and no. People like Bill Cosby, Louis CK, Harvey Weinstein deserve everything that came for them. But what cancel culture doesn't have or hasn't developed yet is how do these people come back from those accusations if they've made changes or are trying to right their wrongs. How do people who've done "less severe" things like this Pinegrove situation or Aziz Ansari? They're shitty situations and they have done bad things, but they don't deserve to be 100% cancelled. How does culture take them back, resolve what they've done so they can carry on creating things that people enjoy?

People love to say "let's cancel Pinegrove" because they read a headline two years ago without any context of the situation. Same thing happened with Conor Oberst back in '13 or '14 (I think). Someone had accused him of raping a fan after a show but they later came forward and said it was all a lie. Can you imagine what would have happened to Conor had that accusation came out today? oh boy. He'd never fully recover.

Cancel culture is too quick to judge depending on the severity of the situation. Sexual coercion (Pinegrove, Aziz) is absolutely not the same thing as sexual assault or worse. They shouldn't be lumped into the same "let's cancel [artist] because of this thing' every single time they're mentioned or brought up. People also love to be on the side of right vs. wrong. And it's easier to deny an artist space and time of day instead of finding a way to work them back into culture or a music scene.

I am no way endorsing problematic artists, but there's a line that needs to be managed well if you really enjoy their work and want to feel okay about listening/watching it again. It's tough.

this too. We'd all be cancelled for things we've said or done years ago. Context is key.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Legitimately victimizing and hurting people repeatedly over years like Cosby and Weinstein is a worthy cause for cancellation. Being an edgelord years ago isn't.
 
wokeupnew said:
I truly cannot find a "Your Fave is Problematic" thread. I thought we had one here but maybe not. So this thread is reasonably close to that one. @mods please move to that thread if it's titled something that I have not found via search.

So what are everyone's thoughts on Pinegrove? They released a new song and have an album coming out.

www.stereogum.com

Pinegrove Sign To Rough Trade, Share New Song "Moment": Listen

It’s been a turbulent time for Pinegrove, the New Jersey indie rock band. In 2017, frontman Evan Stephens Hall put out a statement apologizing for his behavior with women, cancelled the band’s tour, and delayed the release of the album Skylight. Hall acknowledged that he’d been accused of sexual...
www.stereogum.com www.stereogum.com

The comments over on the Stereogum piece kinda sum up my thoughts. Like, everyone has to work with what info there is out there about the whole situation. We don't know if there's still some info that's not being shared. Some people on twitter are cryptic about the band/Evan still being abusers, but provide no insight into why they should not be supported/trusted. Evan himself realized his problems and decided to pursue help and make reprimands for his actions. He didn't murder anyone, the victims seem to be okay with what has transpired and they're back now. If he did something significantly worse like murder or sexual assault/rape I'd say good riddance. But he has not. Does cancel culture go too far for minor transgressions on the scale of abusive behavior? Reflecting on one's actions, trying to change behavior and become a better person, should society give someone a second chance?
Click to expand...
Dave Chapelle addresses this best with his impression #2.

 
sorcerer said:
Wasnt Louis's thing that he just asked to jerk off in front of women and then proceeded to jerk off awkwardly once they said yes? Putting him next to Cosby and Weinstein seems disingenuous.
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sometimes they didn't say yes either. that's also fucking weird and gross, and emotional and sexual assault and I can't respect him after that. he's done
 
scotthilk said:
Dave Chapelle addresses this best with his impression #2.

Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this. I thought about it reading these threads, but I was too lazy (and at work) to grab it.

Segue...that stand-up special had a couple highlights but was overall lazy and not that funny. There was some offensive stuff but comedy should have the right to offend (especially annoying when a person cherry picks only what pertains to them personally to be offended about and gives a pass to everything else); but, really, it just wasn't that inspired. His last special was way better.
 
sorcerer said:
Was the door locked or some shit? Cause you have like a long ass time to dip out once you realize what the game is, especially if he already starts it off by saying "Yo can I jerk off in front of you?"
Like, unless he really gets off on uncomfortable situations, it should've taken him multiple minutes to even get going. Leaving a room would take like 20 seconds at the most.
That's nowhere near as bad as drugging a girls drink and raping her. Like, Louis's thing is something you can actually atone for in a lifetime.
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For some people yes, this could be something that they can be forgiven for. For me it’s not. It’s all subjective on what we as consumers/fans of artists can tolerate/allow. Most people have not and will not forgive him for that. But some have and that’s why he’s still out there playing shows.
 
sorcerer said:
Was the door locked or some shit? Cause you have like a long ass time to dip out once you realize what the game is, especially if he already starts it off by saying "Yo can I jerk off in front of you?"
Like, unless he really gets off on uncomfortable situations, it should've taken him multiple minutes to even get going. Leaving a room would take like 20 seconds at the most.
That's nowhere near as bad as drugging a girls drink and raping her. Like, Louis's thing is something you can actually atone for in a lifetime.
Click to expand...


Sometime people freeze when there in these situations and don't know what to do.
 
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