A Poll on VMP Thread Consolidation

[Enoch]

The high end is not the place for them. They don’t have the expertise or experience to pull it off the way it needs to be. You’re chasing a very small and demanding segment of the market. Not the place for a company with a curator using a DIY speaker made out of a record and an overall penchant for making mistakes...

I agree, but there is a better possibility if they did focus on just the high end they could pull it off. But I think they should focus on the mid-range, strive for better than average pressings and unique-ish selections.

 

[Joe Mac]

I agree, but there is a better possibility if they did focus on just the high end they could pull it off. But I think they should focus on the mid-range, strive for better than average pressings and unique-ish selections.

I agree. I think a club is about curation. Although they should get the best version they can of their choices. High end is about getting the very best version of particular albums. Getting past the fact that I don’t think they are capable of delivering it, I don’t think it’s right for what their business model should be.

 

[HiFi Guy]

I agree. I think a club is about curation. Although they should get the best version they can of their choices. High end is about getting the very best version of particular albums. Getting past the fact that I don’t think they are capable of delivering it, I don’t think it’s right for what their business model should be.

Exactly. They will never be a MoFi or Analogue Productions. Those are beautiful quality both in pressing and artwork/quality of the jacket. Pretty much perfect in every way. Excellent attention to detail in every aspect.

Attention to detail is just one facet that VMP needs to improve.

They need to stick with the Crosley set. They aren't ready for high end.

 

[zombie.modernist]

I’d put it down to growing product lines and sales without growing the staffing levels to manage it and a lack of mature staff with the experience of actually juggling multiple projects at the same time.

Yeah, I think this is it a typical disorganized startup. I honestly feel bad for lots of the staff, which is why I never liked the way that some people just went hard on them. It's totally ridiculous to have your "editorial director" on a forum to defend your QC practices and check stock alerts, an absolute red-flag that people are being spread too thin past their skillset. Larger labels may have more bureaucracy and BS, but at least this kind of thing isn't the norm.

I think they need to work to improve the quality and fulfillment of their monthly releases before they attempt to bite off another Anthology tier package. This month, the Essentials and Classics both seem to be a high quality product, cut by a A-list engineer from analog tape. The RHH is another disappointment, a GZ cut disc and under-ordered again.

 

[Joe Mac]

Exactly. They will never be a MoFi or Analogue Productions. Those are beautiful quality both in pressing and artwork/quality of the jacket. Pretty much perfect in every way. Excellent attention to detail in every aspect.

Attention to detail is just one facet that VMP needs to improve.

They need to stick with the Crosley set. They aren't ready for high end.

But in their defence yet another 60s/70s repress pressed with the latest snake oil (they sound good but there is a high level of bullshit to the blurb for high end presses) for rich boomers and super fans isn’t where a young and fresh new music company should be.

I’m happy to go to Mofi for gorgeous pressings of legacy artists but they fail in doing modern or rarer/overlooked artists. That is where an ideal VMP should be going at, discovery/modern rather than perfection.

 

[Dead C]

It is with my deepest sympathies that I welcome you to the club.

#therealclub

They sell so much that cash short flows would be utterly perplexing. I’d put it down to growing product lines and sales without growing the staffing levels to manage it and a lack of mature staff with the experience of actually juggling multiple projects at the same time.

Honestly, if I was in charge I’d be seriously curtailing the number of exclusives and binning the Anthology and firmly putting the focus on getting the ROTMs and a few select exclusives dead right.

More anoraks, though, right?

 

[Joe Mac]

More anoraks, though, right?

I’m all for a few McIntosh rain jackets to be honest, no one ever caters for the dirty old men in the hobby...

 

[Dead C]

I agree. I think a club is about curation. Although they should get the best version they can of their choices. High end is about getting the very best version of particular albums. Getting past the fact that I don’t think they are capable of delivering it, I don’t think it’s right for what their business model should be.

I don't want to assume anything about WHO the "typical" VMP loyalist is, especially because I still believe that there is no black or white, regarding who still purchases from them, or is subscribed -- there's a lot of variation and grey area in that department -- but I do believe that there are a number of people that still rely on them for the "curation" aspect, or rather, the idea of it. That may have value to those folks still. Personally, I believe even that is severely overrated.

The truth of the matter is that they got a lot more credit for that, while the community that we built around it -- the community that exists and thrives here, more successfully than ever -- is a much better and thorough resource. Even if they, initially offered a platform for us to congregate, it really has had very little to do with them, in the grand scheme of things. You could follow accounts like LITA, Mr Bongo, Egon/Now Again, Music From Memory, Finders Keepers, Tidal Waves, Be With, etc. on social media and come away with a hell of a lot more new music to research in an afternoon than VMP would provide you in 6 months. Not only did they shamelessly swipe ideas directly from forum members without credit (*cough**cough*), but they're mostly just following the catalogs of the more knowledgeable labels that they work with, at this point, anyway. The greatest value that I see in VMP is how they threw a lot of different genres into the same arena so that it compelled those members that would normally restrict themselves to one specific genre or another, to step out of that comfort zone and explore something they might not have. That's one reason that I'm disappointed that some folks are so adamant about keeping their separate VMP subs segregated. To me, the best thing about the club was always the crossover.

But, even in the positive way that subscribers often took leaps outside of their typical wheel houses to explore new genres, it was members of the forum that, more often than not, seemed to do the heavy lifting of turning each other onto particular albums and providing context. This became especially true/evident after they switched up the exclusives thread to where it not only didn't provide staff feedback and suggestions, anymore, but was literally a locked thread preventing any conversation, whatsoever. That was a sign, right there, that they didn't want to have a thread dedicated to informing members, if it would require staff to actually interact and provide information. The odd thing is that it didn't seem to matter that it was both a benefit to the consumer and the bottom line of moving their stock. They expected us to do exactly what we did, which was go into other threads and help promote their products naturally. That's why they expected us to do the exact same thing with a new community once they axed the last one. They expected more and more and delivered less. It's something they continue to do. That move with the monthly exclusives thread was also a huge step toward them demonstrating how they would continue to present us with counterproductive and inferior decisions, while trying to sell them as improvements in an already/previously functioning model. Without the old model of the way that they delivered exclusives, there was no way that the "curated" standard, non-VMP releases were going to sell themselves. It was a misguided move all around.

 

[Joe Mac]

I don't want to assume anything about WHO the "typical" VMP loyalist is, especially because I still believe that there is no black or white, regarding who still purchases from them, or is subscribed -- there's a lot of variation and grey area in that department -- but I do believe that there are a number of people that still rely on them for the "curation" aspect, or rather, the idea of it. That may have value to those folks still. Personally, I believe even that is severely overrated.

The truth of the matter is that they got a lot more credit for that, while the community that we built around it -- the community that exists and thrives here, more successfully than ever -- is a much better and thorough resource. Even if they, initially offered a platform for us to congregate, it really has had very little to do with them, in the grand scheme of things. You could follow accounts like LITA, Mr Bongo, Egon/Now Again, Music From Memory, Finders Keepers, Tidal Waves, Be With, etc. on social media and come away with a hell of a lot more new music to research in an afternoon than VMP would provide you in 6 months. Not only did they shamelessly swipe ideas directly from forum members without credit (*cough**cough*), but they're mostly just following the catalogs of the more knowledgeable labels that they work with, at this point, anyway. The greatest value that I see in VMP is how they threw a lot of different genres into the same arena so that it compelled those members that would normally restrict themselves to one specific genre or another, to step out of that comfort zone and explore something they might not have. That's one reason that I'm disappointed that some folks are so adamant about keeping their separate VMP subs segregated. To me, the best thing about the club was always the crossover.

But, even in the positive way that subscribers often took leaps outside of their typical wheel houses to explore new genres, it was members of the forum that, more often than not, seemed to do the heavy lifting of turning each other onto particular albums and providing context. This became especially true/evident after they switched up the exclusives thread to where it not only didn't provide staff feedback and suggestions, anymore, but was literally a locked thread preventing any conversation, whatsoever. That was a sign, right there, that they didn't want to have a thread dedicated to informing members, if it would require staff to actually interact and provide information. The odd thing is that it didn't seem to matter that it was both a benefit to the consumer and the bottom line of moving their stock. They expected us to do exactly what we did, which was go into other threads and help promote their products naturally. That's why they expected us to do the exact same thing with a new community once they axed the last one. They expected more and more and delivered less. It's something they continue to do. That move with the monthly exclusives thread was also a huge step toward them demonstrating how they would continue to present us with counterproductive and inferior decisions, while trying to sell them as improvements in an already/previously functioning model. Without the old model of the way that they delivered exclusives, there was no way that the "curated" standard, non-VMP releases were going to sell themselves. It was a misguided move all around.

Yeah I mean I agree, I was more speculating on what they should be rather than what they have been, are, or will be

 

[Dead C]

Yeah I mean I agree, I was more speculating on what they should be rather than what they have been, are, or should be

I hear you. I don't really know what I'm talking about anyway. It just got me thinking and, as I started typing, I began having flashbacks and my mind started unraveling. Curation was their strong point and, with even that lessening, it definitely brings up the question of what they are, or even want to be, at all. I still feel like they continuously suffocate their most valuable aspects, with us being the greatest resource they've ever had at their disposal. To neglect and abandon that to focus on and pursue a new venture like the Anthology, they really need to stick the landing over there. From what I'm hearing, it doesn't seem like that's happening and I'd imagine that demographic they're targeting is going to be a lot less forgiving.

 

[Joe Mac]

I hear you. I don't really know what I'm talking about anyway. It just got me thinking and, as I started typing, I began having flashbacks and my mind started unraveling. Curation was their strong point and, with even that lessening, it definitely brings up the question of what they are, or even want to be, at all. I still feel like they continuously suffocate their most valuable aspects, with us being the greatest resource they've ever had at their disposal. To neglect and abandon that to focus on and pursue a new venture like the Anthology, they really need to stick the landing over there. From what I'm hearing, it doesn't seem like that's happening and I'd imagine that demographic they're targeting is going to be a lot less forgiving.

Haha that’s fine, I tend to go stream of conscious from time to time too, it’s enjoyable!

Yeah I think the Anthology was a huge misstep, I don’t know what they were aiming to achieve with it. Well I do, Money is VMP’s messiah and jazz and classic rock fans are the most likely to overpay to a big amount for nice pressings, sadly they are also waaaaay more particular than even the pickiest forumer. Tbh them executing so badly, all things considered, is kinda funny.

Their curation could be good, but it could also be baffling and they leaned far too hard on relationships with certain labels, I agree that this community curates much more effectively and less judgementally.

 

[AnthonyI]

I agree that this community curates much more effectively and less judgementally.

100% Agree

 

[Selaws]

I don't want to assume anything about WHO the "typical" VMP loyalist is, especially because I still believe that there is no black or white, regarding who still purchases from them, or is subscribed -- there's a lot of variation and grey area in that department -- but I do believe that there are a number of people that still rely on them for the "curation" aspect, or rather, the idea of it. That may have value to those folks still. Personally, I believe even that is severely overrated.

The truth of the matter is that they got a lot more credit for that, while the community that we built around it -- the community that exists and thrives here, more successfully than ever -- is a much better and thorough resource. Even if they, initially offered a platform for us to congregate, it really has had very little to do with them, in the grand scheme of things. You could follow accounts like LITA, Mr Bongo, Egon/Now Again, Music From Memory, Finders Keepers, Tidal Waves, Be With, etc. on social media and come away with a hell of a lot more new music to research in an afternoon than VMP would provide you in 6 months. Not only did they shamelessly swipe ideas directly from forum members without credit (*cough**cough*), but they're mostly just following the catalogs of the more knowledgeable labels that they work with, at this point, anyway. The greatest value that I see in VMP is how they threw a lot of different genres into the same arena so that it compelled those members that would normally restrict themselves to one specific genre or another, to step out of that comfort zone and explore something they might not have. That's one reason that I'm disappointed that some folks are so adamant about keeping their separate VMP subs segregated. To me, the best thing about the club was always the crossover.

But, even in the positive way that subscribers often took leaps outside of their typical wheel houses to explore new genres, it was members of the forum that, more often than not, seemed to do the heavy lifting of turning each other onto particular albums and providing context. This became especially true/evident after they switched up the exclusives thread to where it not only didn't provide staff feedback and suggestions, anymore, but was literally a locked thread preventing any conversation, whatsoever. That was a sign, right there, that they didn't want to have a thread dedicated to informing members, if it would require staff to actually interact and provide information. The odd thing is that it didn't seem to matter that it was both a benefit to the consumer and the bottom line of moving their stock. They expected us to do exactly what we did, which was go into other threads and help promote their products naturally. That's why they expected us to do the exact same thing with a new community once they axed the last one. They expected more and more and delivered less. It's something they continue to do. That move with the monthly exclusives thread was also a huge step toward them demonstrating how they would continue to present us with counterproductive and inferior decisions, while trying to sell them as improvements in an already/previously functioning model. Without the old model of the way that they delivered exclusives, there was no way that the "curated" standard, non-VMP releases were going to sell themselves. It was a misguided move all around.

Thanks for linking to the 'Experience Unlimited' situation. I read a lot of comments on the old forum about that but this makes it a lot clearer. That's a damn cold move to pull. He clearly placed a higher value on peoples opinion of his record digging ability over a suggestion from a valued customer on their own 'community lead' forum.

Ironically had he given credit where its clearly due, more people might have visited the forum which would likely lead to increased VMP's sales.........but hey, we're all in awe of Cam's amazing pick now so who cares right?

 

[Needles & Grooves]

Thank you everyone who voted and/or contributed to the debate here. We will keep the 5 dedicated threads discussed and voted on here.

We want to make it clear that there is no ban on VMP being mentioned elsewhere on the forum. If you want to mention them in a status, or if you want to post one of their records in the pre-order thread, then go for it. In spite of our early missteps, we do not wish to micromanage or regulate VMP discussions. Everyone is welcome to share their opinions about VMP and any other retailer--the only requirement is that everyone refrains from name-calling and similar personal attacks.

We're unpinning this thread, as its purpose has been served.

 

[jaycee]

I'm not sure there's a reasonable place to post this but this thread seemed to make some sense.

This isn't about VMP thread consolidation. I don't think that's a driving issue, but there has been an increased toxicity and hostility around the forum that most often rears its ugly head in the VMP threads. The spillover of people from reddit coming here to complain about VMP and about the reddit threads isn't helping, but I don't even think it's isolated to the VMP threads. It's spilling over into a lot of corners of N&G.

I know one person's joke or inane comment is another person's bullying or attack. It's kind-of unfortunate that these short quips are how we all communicate with each other. There's a lot of interpretation that happens between the words being typed, posted, read (more likely skimmed) and processed, and we all take ourselves too seriously sometimes.

The community here, the people that actually get what that word means and believe in it, remains. There have been far more acts of kindness, generosity, and just general caring about your fellow humans than shitty behavior, but the negativity is often louder and easier to focus on. Still, when I see long term community members leaving or considering leaving do to the onslaught of negativity I think it's something to be concerned about.

I don't know what the exact issue is, maybe there isn't one, and I'm not sure there's anything in particular to be done anyway.

VMP is a place to buy records, that's it. I know it means more to some people and less to others. I think the basic truth is that it's a company that mostly presses variants of records and re-releases some others. It doesn't need to be any more than that.

Complain about them if you must. Make fun of them if you must. It sure is easy to do. The frustration that often gets converted to anger isn't unjustified. BUT can we be a little less shitty to each other? Thankfully we have ignore options for individuals and threads. Just turn them off and do your best to disengage (easier said than done). It's cool. We aren't all going to like each other and sometimes you just need a break from other people's vibes. This isn't a situation that the mods can warn, ban, or discuss our way out of. We need to police ourselves - you know like people that aren't emotional children (I know easier said than done again).

For some of us VMP started this whole thing where we can get together in a safe space to chat about music or whatever else and maybe even make a friend or two. Others of us came around later once the company started to become more of a company and less of a community. Still others came along even more recently after the company kicked it's most loyal customers out for being a little too loud about all of their fuck-ups.... and there are many many more people who just buy there records to flip them or have them or whatever and never go online to talk about the company that refuses to grow-up.

I don't really have a point but if i do maybe it's that we all choose to view VMP however we want, and it's not our job to impose that perspective on anyone else. If you love em great. If you hate em great. If you're anywhere in-between then great. It doesn't matter. It's just someplace to buy records, and none of us need to care about where other people by their records.

Express that you love them. Express that you hate them. Express that you're indifferent. It's just someplace to buy records (insert jab about if they ever delivered them or not here).

Whatever your deal is, whatever your viewpoint on that company or any other, whatever reasons or lack thereof you are on this forum - shitting on each other because you disagree or you think you're right or you think that the other person is dumb, or you're just super unaware of your own anger issues isn't adding anything, and maybe it's making this place less welcoming than it's intended to be.... and coming here to complain because screaming into your keyboard on reddit or any other forum wasn't emotionally satisfying is pretty fucking lame.

Let's stop making N&G about that company. Let's make 2020 the year that indifference about VMP becomes the norm and not the exception. Maybe then we just hang-out and bullshit and let this place be whatever it's going to be.

 

[goodoohuru]

 

[NathanRicaud]

Well said

Yeah, very well said @jaycee!

This video is sooooooo cute! You can’t help but smile and go awwww when you watch it!

 

[ByersVinyl]

Unless there is another thread filled with Vitriol - Ive read through all the “VMP Store Exclusive, Swaps etc” posts this past week and made a couple of comments.
I have not seen anything other than people vent there understandable frustration. I think the conversation between those with a common issue has been fine.
Cant see a problem to solve.

 

[Dead C]

Unless there is another thread filled with Vitriol - Ive read through all the “VMP Store Exclusive, Swaps etc” posts this past week and made a couple of comments.
I have not seen anything other than people vent there understandable frustration. I think the conversation between those with a common issue has been fine.
Cant see a problem to solve.

I'm with you on this. I'm not really sure which members are being attacked or shit on.

I've only been frequenting a handful of threads, lately, but I haven't experienced it bleeding over. I know that doesn't mean it hasn't, though, so maybe this is also an announcement that it has. In the past a case might have been made between those experiencing personal VMP issues bringing down the rest of the happy customers, but at this moment, it's a stretch not to expect VMP issues to be discussed in a VMP thread when all they really have going on right now is issues. The moment that anyone actually gets a package, it seems like everyone gets excited and asks about it, as if it's a letter from the outside world arriving at a prison camp. Unfortunately, not much has been delivered and more and more new problems spring up throughout the day. For those waiting and experiencing these issues, other members have become the only real source of information when the company is operating with complete radio silence, while deleting social media comments and locking people out.

 

[mdmost]

The Classics, RHH, Anthology, and Essential threads all seem to be running like normal. The exclusives thread is the main one people are rightly venting on.