A Poll on VMP Thread Consolidation

[Enoch]

[deleted comment, went against what I had been trying to say, and I apologize for that]

 

[High Rant District]

I'm done arguing, because I believe this is an emotional decision and not a logical one.

I think there is logic here. I was of the opinion that multiple threads are fine, but hadn't actually voted. You made some compelling arguments, IMO, so I finally voted and chose the 'one thread' option. I appreciate the effort you put into this discussion.

 

[doncornelius]

How is this as a compromise?

We keep one VMP thread here for club news and info, and allow multiple threads on individual selections and artists in the General Music & Vinyl section without grouping them under the VMP umbrella using VMP categories. Popular artists and titles will generate continuing discussion, while many others will be pushed back for later.

 

[roffle24]

Just wanted to take 2 seconds to say sorry about the PIF thread if I was wrong. If the PIF thread was not started on VMP then I apologize. It very much appeared to be started on VMP's forums and not converted from somewhere else. It looked like it was taken from VMP and converted here as the same thread. Sorry @Jake! if that's not the case. I never said VMP started the thread specifically, but I assumed it was started on their forums and moved here. Sorry if I was wrong in any way, no intention to disrespect.

Anyway.......

If you want to categorize me into pro-VMP, that's fine. My comments here are simply defending the idea of the forum and how much traffic is actually generated from the VMP threads. We have people here saying they're data-mining these forums for sales. I've read comments that they're linking people here as a way for us to just promote their brand, collect data, and side load their forum into being our problem.... when @mcherry confirmed that they agreed to let them link stragglers here for our benefit, not theirs. Stop the crazy assumptions and conspiracies, it's just fucking silly, and you sound ridiculous.

All of that said, I'm not blindly backing VMP. I like their service. I enjoy the records I get from them, especially this Outkast release that I'm pumped for. I've gotten some warped stuff here and there, but overall it's just as good/bad as anywhere else I've ordered from. I'm sorry that some of you are so upset that you felt the need to cancel. If I were to become dissatisfied with their service, I will cancel as well. I will surely not troll a forum for 2 weeks about how upset I am after I cancel, though, like some of you. This is gonna strike a nerve on some people but whatever, fuck it.

I'm also very numb to the idea that VMP is a company that you can choose to pay for or choose not to. Take it or leave it, this is their business and their decisions and practices. If they choose to ignore community input, then so be it, that's their choice. Maybe they continue to grow and the smaller community was wrong. Maybe the masses don't give a shit and will just pay for their exclusives no matter what. Maybe they collapse in 6 months and the community was right and they end up closing their doors. That's for someone else to decide whether they care about the minority or not. Believe it or not, this forum is the minority.

The beauty of all of it, is that it's their business and they can run it however they want to. I'm currently pleased with the product, so I pay for it. If you currently are not pleased, why are you dragging an entire second community down with your displeasure? Just cancel and move on. There are surely people that are anti-VMP here... and claim it's not spite, but it is. It's fucking spite. It's telling your ex girlfriend she can't have her sweater back because you're pissed off at her for dumping you, so you throw it in the garbage just to piss her off.

At this point I think I'm going to remove myself from this conversation because this thread is just nitpicking topics that have a small weak point to continue to argue. If you want to talk more about it to me directly feel free to DM me. I'm not anything special but I genuinely want these forums to be something because I used to love the discussion as a lurker and as a contributor on the old forums. They were a gem of a place, and this new forum is not a representation of that. There are many here that have been around WAY longer than me that surely can attest to that. For those who want change, then make a proactive change. Don't just stomp down the negative aspects... build something new that is positive. Direct people to new threads if you want them there. Encourage people to move away from VMP if you think their service is ass. Give people a reason to move on like you have.

 

[Skalap]

Give people a reason to move on like you have.

What other reasons do you need? Closing the forum? Delaying the exclusives and AoTMs? Bad quality control, considering there is quality control? Emails accusing members to take advantage of the return policy? Stealing members ideas and not giving credit? Are these reasons not enough? I can go on if needed.

I only care about the people here now, not about VMP, not anymore, and their decisions showed us that they don't care about us, they only care about our money. I understand some people may need more time to move on and I respect that. But again, accusing people here to be anti-VMP is quite hilarious. Nobody here decided to open a new forum to fight VMP. They forced us and gave us only 48h to do so, because "what would we do with more time?". We all come from VMP but we are not VMP anymore, we are a community of humans, record collectors and music lovers and I hope that, in a few months, VMP won't be the only reason why we are all here.

 

[Captainfog]

I still think they would have only have asked if they thought there was something for them to get out of it, whether it was a big thing or a small thing. Look I want to have positive thoughts toward VMP but there have been a lot of questionable things they have done as of late which seemed gear toward their goals than what others/members would prefer.

They wanted to make sure people found us and not the scammer dude setting up fake VMP forums.

 

[heartswells]

It's accusatory and full of assumptions. It's also telling your fellow forum members that they should keep their opinions to themselves. I get that you don't like the conflict. Neither do I, but @Dead C stating he doesn't understand someone else's perspctive or me saying that VMP is terrible or whatever your problem with my posts is isn't wrong or right.

As opposed to @Dead C dismissing the other side’s opinions as emotional and not logical.

Edit: apologies that I’m prolonging this friction, hadn’t read any other posts after that one but it triggered me enough to respond.

 

[ByersVinyl]

To be honest, I think posts like yours and @jaycee's are part of the potential dividing on the anti-VMP side just as there are others on the pro-VMP side (@roffle24). There are three groups right now, anti, discussing, and pro. I just hope we can all move to the middle. Digging in, which seems to be going right now, isn't going to bring us together.

This is really messed-up @Enoch. It's accusatory and full of assumptions. It's also telling your fellow forum members that they should keep their opinions to themselves. I get that you don't like the conflict. Neither do I, but @Dead C stating he doesn't understand someone else's perspctive or me saying that VMP is terrible or whatever your problem with my posts is isn't wrong or right.

For the record. I'm not on any side - so stop putting me someplace i don't identify with. Your summary can be your narrative but it isn't mine.

Framing this as pro or anti VMP is problematic and continues to turn a thread about polls about VMP threads into something else and creates more conflict

Stop trying to silence people.

You are interpreting my language through your filter. Your interpretation of my intent as "digging in" is not correct.

Stop telling me or anyone else how to behave. I didn't ask for your guidance.

Your prior post was totally misguided. You owe both @Dead C and myself an acknowledgement and apology.

When did I say was on the anti-VMP side? My entire position is that I want everyone to feel comfortable everywhere and that I'm against this hard line separating everyone without nuance. I do believe that there are people set on perpetuating a hard divide, as evidenced by your last comment.

Where do you fall, @Enoch? You seem to be making some of the most specific anti-VMP comments in here of anyone, even when they seem less relevant to the conversation.

You literally talk shit about them, while casting dispersions about their intentions. Does the fact that you still continue to buy everything they produce, make you exempt from categorization? My focus hasn't wavered. Does being contradictory and keeping your feet in two opposing spaces make someone the voice of reason? Don't be reductive and condescending toward me, because I have actual viewpoints and see value in this discussion. Comments like those aren't going to avoid conflict, but incite it.

How about this? Based on your last comment dividing everybody else but yourself into 2 camps, you are an absolute hypocrite. This is some self-righteous garbage. Before it gets any more ugly, I'm out. See you in 3 months

Based on all this - I suggest we don't revisit thing in 3 months. NFWI (not fucking worth it)

 

[Enoch]

So I went back and read the last few pages, I am not sure this thread is productive anymore, a way oversimplification of those pages is people think there should be as many VMP threads that people create and people who think there should only be one. The vote says one thing yet those very oversimplified conversations keep going in circles along with a downward spiral that I was a part of. I don't know what the solution should be (not deleting the thread). At this point, in my opinion, the conversation has advanced as far as it will go and the vote margin isn't going to change enough to matter. I am not a huge fan of locking a thread unless the thread is created specifically for giving information without comment, but that might be a way to go here.

 

[High Rant District]

At this point, in my opinion, the conversation has advanced as far as it will go and the vote margin isn't going to change enough to matter.

I think the conversation has been a good one and has been productive. It would have been interesting to let the discussion play out for a few days or a week before allowing anyone to vote. At the start of the thread, I thought five threads was the right answer. After following everyone's input - especially @Dead C 's - I changed my mind.

With the voting beginning right away, I think the 'one thread' camp was immediately put in a defensive position. The vote was really over before thoughtful discussion had occurred. Tough to come back from that.

 

[HiFi Guy]

I originally voted for 5, but have since reconsidered.

I'm one of the people that @roffle24 isn't happy about. I've posted in those forums although I've cancelled my membership. I don't care if others contine their membership. It's not my money. It's also against forum policy to treat anyone differently because of their membership status, which I totally agree with. I refuse to shop at Wal-Mart (consumer discount shopping hell). That's my decision. I know plenty of others that love the place. That's their business, and I don't think any less of anyone that chooses to buy there.

I'm now in agreement with @Joe Mac - we got booted out from our previous online hangout spot. Luckily we have our own place now- with no commercial involvement. Why would we want the new place built as a shrine to the old place?

Why should VMP get more exposure than any other place to buy records? There's room in one thread for everyone. It also puts every record club or retailer on a level playing field. I'm sure some threads will be more positive than others- the club's quality in both product as well as customer service will bear that out.

I do think some are unhappy at the negativity directed towards VMP. I would be as well if false statements were made. I haven't seen any instance of that. There's good and bad about them. In my opinion, the bad far outweighs the good. Others may feel differently and that's fine too.

We don't have to all agree, but one thing I love about all of you is that for the most part, we get along quite well, even when we don't agree. This is the most respectful and friendly place online.

 

[MikeyP]

Everybody out of the pool, I felt multiple warm spots!

I voted and took a break from this thread, and I’m amazed at the emotional response it’s attracted. That’s a good thing, assuming we can keep this discussion civil and respect everybody’s opinion as just that… an opinion. As a newer member to this forum who was never really involved with the VMP version, I don’t feel wholly entitled to an opinion on this matter, so I have no interest in selling my own viewpoint to someone that’s been interacting with y’all for months, if not years. I just wanted to state that these are all great points being made, and I found myself wavering on my own opinion multiple times while reading. And it’s pretty clear that there is no right answer, right now. What is clear however, is that this forum is packed with intelligent and emotionally connected individuals, and I’m pretty confident that we’ll eventually find the right solution.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ll be in the hot tub where hopefully all warm spots are natural, not natural. Gross.

 

[Joe Mac]

So I went back and read the last few pages, I am not sure this thread is productive anymore, a way oversimplification of those pages is people think there should be as many VMP threads that people create and people who think there should only be one. The vote says one thing yet those very oversimplified conversations keep going in circles along with a downward spiral that I was a part of. I don't know what the solution should be (not deleting the thread). At this point, in my opinion, the conversation has advanced as far as it will go and the vote margin isn't going to change enough to matter. I am not a huge fan of locking a thread unless the thread is created specifically for giving information without comment, but that might be a way to go here.

I think that the debate has been robust and, bar the little detour last night, respectful. It hasn’t reduced into name calling or back biting. I also think, given the last couple of posts, that it has far from run it’s course. Speaking for myself, I see no reason why the conversation should be shut down yet.

 

[Enoch]

I think that the debate has been robust and, bar the little detour last night, respectful. It hasn’t reduced into name calling or back biting. I also think, given the last couple of posts, that it has far from run it’s course. Speaking for myself, I see no reason why the conversation should be shut down yet.

I am curious, what more is there to say at this point that hasn't already been. If there really is I am for keeping the thread going.

 

[Joe Mac]

I am curious, what more is there to say at this point that hasn't already been. If there really is I am for keeping the thread going.

Well as long people are changing their minds and publicly stating why it maintains a purpose. Also it seems perverse to shut down a conversation on a vote while the vote is still active, regardless of how much of a foregone conclusion it appears to be.

 

[Skalap]

Well as long people are changing their minds and publicly stating why it maintains a purpose. Also it seems perverse to shut down a conversation on a vote while the vote is still active, regardless of how much of a foregone conclusion it appears to be.

And as long as the conversation stays respectful, I don't see any reason to close it.

 

[Enoch]

Well as long people are changing their minds and publicly stating why it maintains a purpose. Also it seems perverse to shut down a conversation on a vote while the vote is still active, regardless of how much of a foregone conclusion it appears to be.

I get that but we aren't going to revisit it for 3 months at this point. I did like the idea suggested above by @High Rant District that maybe next time the discussion should begin prior to the vote. Again my opinion and I don't make any of the decisions around here.

 

[Joe Mac]

I get that but we aren't going to revisit it for 3 months at this point. I did like the idea suggested above by @High Rant District that maybe next time the discussion should begin prior to the vote. Again my opinion and I don't make any of the decisions around here.

After tomorrow evening. By all means lock it once the vote ends to avoid recriminations/gloating. Shutting down conversation while there are still votes to be cast is not cool!

 

[Enoch]

After tomorrow evening. By all means lock it once the vote ends to avoid recriminations/gloating. Shutting down conversation while there are still votes to be cast is not cool!

Fair enough

 

[gouis]

I get that but we aren't going to revisit it for 3 months at this point. I did like the idea suggested above by @High Rant District that maybe next time the discussion should begin prior to the vote. Again my opinion and I don't make any of the decisions around here.

I believe we are only going to revisit it if things aren’t working. We’re not going to dig this up every three months just so people can fight with each other unless there is a good reason.