Your Fave is Problematic

time for my fucking take on cancel culture

a developer of night in the woods, alec holowka, died yesterday

he was under intense allegations by zoe quinn about being a sexual harasser.. which i do believe are true, it is not known if this was a suicide because of the allegations or not, but sadly seems likely

the problem with cancel culture is not that we become more aware of harassers and we try to honestly help issues...

the problem is that we are quick to vilify and harass people instead of trying to fix these issues from the ground up (teaching people about sexual harassment better, supporting and comforting victims, etc.).. instead of go on to attack these people... from what i see knowing alecs mental issues is he was a person who needed therapy, a person who honestly needed someone to explain the issues and try to stop these bad things from happening before they started

cancel culture is not the problem

people are the problem
I agree. Cancel culture makes no effort to help rehabilitate the ones they are harassing. Or our culture in general, really, and our cynicism toward any type of rehabilitation (drug, crime, etc). We act just like the judicial system in that you've done a bad thing, now you must pay. Eventually, you may come out of this alive, but you'll never be the same.
 

This is what cancel culture did. Due process is their for a reason. When it comes to situations like this you can't be using mob mentality as a way to solve these problems. I don't know what would be the right way of dealing with these situations but the loss of life isn't a solution.
 
time for my fucking take on cancel culture

a developer of night in the woods, alec holowka, died yesterday

he was under intense allegations by zoe quinn about being a sexual harasser.. which i do believe are true, it is not known if this was a suicide because of the allegations or not, but sadly seems likely

the problem with cancel culture is not that we become more aware of harassers and we try to honestly help issues...

the problem is that we are quick to vilify and harass people instead of trying to fix these issues from the ground up (teaching people about sexual harassment better, supporting and comforting victims, etc.).. instead of go on to attack these people... from what i see knowing alecs mental issues is he was a person who needed therapy, a person who honestly needed someone to explain the issues and try to stop these bad things from happening before they started

cancel culture is not the problem

people are the problem
Pertinent to the question of Zoe Quinn’s credibility and the allegations she made against Holowka. EXCLUSIVE: Zoe Quinn's allegations are falling apart - The Post Millennial
If ZQ said the sky was blue I’d have to double check it against a Panatone color chart.
 
If I had to guess, Gwen Stefani has been accused of appropriating asian culture and I think thats what hes referencing towards. Please correct me if I'm wrong @Count_Vader
That and also parading Japanese people around like accessories. Those were the "Harajuku Girls" they were contractually obligated to dress in ridiculous almost childlike "cute outfits" and were also forbidden from speaking English in public.
Gonna need context on this one.
Basically what I said above to @AudioAce it's a minstrel show. Quite a few Asian celebrities expressed displeasure with it but nothing ever came of it. And it's still kind of like that today. People can get away with being awful and insensitive to Asian people. It's gotten a bit better but nowhere near the levels of other taboos.
 
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So the new joker film.

They featured a Gary Glitter song. He’s going to get thousands in royalties.

He is a paedophile who has been convicted across the world in a variety of countries. He is currently in jail in the uk. He is utterly unrepentant.

Completely unforgivable move for me.
 
So the new joker film.

They featured a Gary Glitter song. He’s going to get thousands in royalties.

He is a paedophile who has been convicted across the world in a variety of countries. He is currently in jail in the uk. He is utterly unrepentant.

Completely unforgivable move for me.
I completely agree with you, and actually read about it the other morning in the paper. One counter argument that was in there was that it wasn't just Glitter that performed on that song, and that by banning/not using his music his band would no longer receive royalties. A tricky one for sure and not one where I can see both parties getting what they deserve (the band - royalties and Glitter - nothing).
 
So this seems the most relevant place to drop this. I listened to this older episode of the Switched on Pop podcast last night. It's my favorite podcast - it breaks down pop music. But it really goes deep - chord progressions, lyrical content and how it matches up with the music, influences, comparisons to older music and sometimes even classical music, history, etc. It's a great podcast.

Anyway, the one I listened to is from 2016 and it is about bad people making good music. Kinda like this thread. The artists they discuss are R. Kelly, Phil Specter and Wagner. With mentions of other artists too. I think they really nail what we are all struggling with in this thread. I also found it interesting knowing what we know now in 2019 about R. Kelly to hear their take from 2016. I would love them to do a follow up on this episode.

 
So this seems the most relevant place to drop this. I listened to this older episode of the Switched on Pop podcast last night. It's my favorite podcast - it breaks down pop music. But it really goes deep - chord progressions, lyrical content and how it matches up with the music, influences, comparisons to older music and sometimes even classical music, history, etc. It's a great podcast.

Anyway, the one I listened to is from 2016 and it is about bad people making good music. Kinda like this thread. The artists they discuss are R. Kelly, Phil Specter and Wagner. With mentions of other artists too. I think they really nail what we are all struggling with in this thread. I also found it interesting knowing what we know now in 2019 about R. Kelly to hear their take from 2016. I would love them to do a follow up on this episode.


Yeah Wagner was an epic shit. He’s was good friends with Nietzsche for a very long time but Nietzsche dropped him pretty quickly when he started going all proto-Nazi. Beautiful music though. I wonder does it feel less tainted because all this happened 150 years ago? Will the same thing happen when all these modern shits die?

Interesting Nietzsche story. He saw a man beating a horse so he went and beat the man, hugged the horse and never spoke again.
 
Yeah Wagner was an epic shit. He’s was good friends with Nietzsche for a very long time but Nietzsche dropped him pretty quickly when he started going all proto-Nazi. Beautiful music though. I wonder does it feel less tainted because all this happened 150 years ago? Will the same thing happen when all these modern shits die?

Interesting Nietzsche story. He saw a man beating a horse so he went and beat the man, hugged the horse and never spoke again.

Well that act by Nietzsche is definitely something I would do.

Yeah, they really get into how awful Wagner was - which I was not fully aware of. And that part of the podcast they actually ask if music can make someone do a bad thing. They also dive into whether it matters if the artist is gone or if they are still alive and how that factors into our icky dilemma. I highly suggest giving it a listen. I think it is @30 minutes, so not a huge time commitment.
 
Well that act by Nietzsche is definitely something I would do.

Yeah, they really get into how awful Wagner was - which I was not fully aware of. And that part of the podcast they actually ask if music can make someone do a bad thing. They also dive into whether it matters if the artist is gone or if they are still alive and how that factors into our icky dilemma. I highly suggest giving it a listen. I think it is @30 minutes, so not a huge time commitment.

I think artistic failure does weird things to people’s heads and they look for scapegoats rather than accepting that there isn’t an international Jewish conspiracy but rather thing that failed either wasn’t good enough or you didn’t get it to the right audience.

It’s a particular damning indictment on Wagner that even though he had enormous success in his own lifetime he didn’t grow the fuck up and instead remained embittered.

Haha yeah I can empathise but then equally by that stage of his life he was riddled with Syphilis and mental illness and this was pretty much his final mental breakdown that ended his working life. He was pretty much under the care of others and unable to keep writing.
 
Yeah Wagner was an epic shit. He’s was good friends with Nietzsche for a very long time but Nietzsche dropped him pretty quickly when he started going all proto-Nazi. Beautiful music though. I wonder does it feel less tainted because all this happened 150 years ago? Will the same thing happen when all these modern shits die?

Interesting Nietzsche story. He saw a man beating a horse so he went and beat the man, hugged the horse and never spoke again.
If you've ever the chance to - or have read - Nietzsche's The Birth of Tragedy uses the work of Wagner extensively in his argument. But, yes, this was early Nietzsche.
 
So, yes, the podcast is called Switched on Pop. Which I know some people will dismiss outright because of the word "pop". But let me just give an example of why this podcast is really intelligent and worth your time.

Ever heard of the Tristan chord? I hadn't either until I listened to the particular episode I shared. The guys discuss it and play it for you on the episode. It has its own Wiki page. A chord has its own Wiki page. That's just wild to me.

.
 
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