Vinyl Me Please Essentials

[Joe Mac]

I feel like the whole "loudness war" thing was really misunderstood. It led to people thinking "clipping = automatically bad" when that's just not the case. Production/mixing is a nuanced thing. Some albums were made to be maxed out and distorted as hell, if they were dulled down to have super audiophile dynamic range they wouldn't have the same kick. Bad production was the problem for a lot of albums in the 2000s, it wasn't that they were "loud" necessarily, they were just mixed like shit with no regard to how anything should sound. That's not a problem with brickwalling to me but just knowing how to mix something. I'm not an audiophile necessarily but I'll always vouch for distortion and more lo-fi aesthetics being used as a tool, and I think the thought process that "loudness" is a bad thing isn't necessarily the thing to take away from the trend of CDs that sounded like ass in the 2000s.

I agree! One of my all time favourite albums was deliberately brickwalled. Oasis went through two entire sessions in different studios trying to record their debut but just couldn’t capture the forthrightness and vim of their live shows. For the third session they were recorded entirely live as a band and then it was brickwalled. I’ve heard the demos of the first two sessions and they do sound weedy, the third brickwalled master is the best.

The issue is that every fucking album from 95-05 seemed to be brickwalled and dynamics suffered hugely. It was a war to stand out on FM radio, not to have the best sounding recording. As well as bands that suited that loud sound you had subtle bands like elbow being turned up to 11 and it was just not good. I get what you’re saying as a studio technique and I do agree that it has it’s uses but it also deserves all the derision poured on the loudness wars era masters.

 

[gaporter]

I agree! One of my all time favourite albums was deliberately brickwalled. Oasis went through two entire sessions in different studios trying to record their debut but just couldn’t capture the forthrightness and vim of their live shows. For the third session they were recorded entirely live as a band and then it was brickwalled. I’ve heard the demos of the first two sessions and the do sound weedy, the third brickwalled master is the best.

The issue is that every fucking album from 95-05 seemed to be brickwalled and dynamics suffered hugely. It was a war to stand out on FM radio, not to have the best sounding recording. As well as bands that suited that loud sound you had subtle bands like elbow being turned up to 11 and it was just not good. I get what you’re saying as a studio technique and I do agree that it has it’s uses but it also deserves all the derision poured on the loudness wars era masters.

I mean I understand the frustrations. "Scar Tissue" by RHCP is supposed to be a somewhat soft ballad and yet it's about as distorted as a Death Grips song. I guess what I should have said in my original post is it's all about what sound the artist is going for. An acoustic folk album that's compressed and distorted shouldn't work, and yet In the Aeroplane Over the Sea is just that and it's one of the most celebrated folk albums of the last 25 years. But that's a deliberate stylistic choice and that album would lose some of its charm if it was made to lose the eccentricities the distorted production brings to it. It's when the loudness and compression comes from pure ignorance and a lack of not caring that it becomes a problem like the aforementioned RHCP; Rick Rubin became the king of just not giving a shit and was continously hired for name recognition more than anything else. I do think that production style worked for System of a Down oddly enough but SOAD and RHCP are two very different bands deserving of very different production styles.

And I will take a moment to say that deliberate distortion is not always acceptable. I'm all for artistic intent but I absolutely HATE Dave Fridmann's production, because its compression and clipping used as an aesthetic with absolutely no thought to how it adds to or benefits the final product and only results in making the music sound like its being played through a broken speaker. His fetish for turning up the gain on everything he produces almost ruins MGMT's self-titled album and is why everyone found that last Baroness album such a struggle to listen to. Why someone would do that on purpose other than just an ironic joke is beyond me tbh.

 

[Joe Mac]

I mean I understand the frustrations. "Scar Tissue" by RHCP is supposed to be a somewhat soft ballad and yet it's about as distorted as a Death Grips song. I guess what I should have said in my original post is it's all about what sound the artist is going for. An acoustic folk album that's compressed and distorted shouldn't work, and yet In the Aeroplane Over the Sea is just that and it's one of the most celebrated folk albums of the last 25 years. But that's a deliberate stylistic choice and that album would lose some of its charm if it was made to lose the eccentricities the distorted production brings to it. It's when the loudness and compression comes from pure ignorance and a lack of not caring that it becomes a problem like the aforementioned RHCP; Rick Rubin became the king of just not giving a shit and was continously hired for name recognition more than anything else. I do think that production style worked for System of a Down oddly enough but SOAD and RHCP are two very different bands deserving of very different production styles.

And I will take a moment to say that deliberate distortion is not always acceptable. I'm all for artistic intent but I absolutely HATE Dave Fridmann's production, because its compression and clipping used as an aesthetic with absolutely no thought to how it adds to or benefits the final product and only results in making the music sound like its being played through a broken speaker. His fetish for turning up the gain on everything he produces almost ruins MGMT's self-titled album and is why everyone found that last Baroness album such a struggle to listen to. Why someone would do that on purpose other than just an ironic joke is beyond me tbh.

Yeah Rubin and Ross Robinson were two of the biggest offenders. No surprise that they were guru/performance style producers rather than audiophile sound specialists. You’d think that being such a producer that you’d have the humility to hire the best of the best in sound/recording engineers but apparently not...

There is a lot to the fact that there was a train of thought that if something sounds good on FM radio or a boom box that nothing else matters, because that’s how most people consumed back then. It’s kinda sad now that I’m old enough to have nicer gear that the best music of my youth just doesn’t stand up in terms of recording and sound to lots that came before it. I’ll also be honest and say that I’ve always preferred distortion that’s applied by say the guitarist or other musicians when playing through style, pedals etc rather than studio trickery, that’s me maybe showing my age!

 

[Selaws]

Really enjoyed these last few pages. It actually makes me consider something my girlfriend asked the other day. Her cousin has bought a Crosley type turntable and sent her a photo of it, and she then asked me it if was a good turntable. I told her it was definitely one to avoid (not that she told her cousin that) and she asked if my turntable was considered a good one. I said that I think its a really good one when you consider what's obtainable for me.

Now the way I described it to her was to imagine a beat-up banger of a car being the Crosley, then perhaps mine could be considered a decent newer Mercedes. I said the other thing is that there's a whole other level above that. Imagine the banger next to a Merc, the difference would be obvious and big BUT imagine if a new Ferrari pulled up next to the Merc. The difference would be massive again and that's the next level which just seems unobtainable to me (like the £25k turntables and the like).

Now to seamlessly slot this confusing anecdote into the current thread. So, with the ranking of audio quality from records, I tend to view them in similar brackets. There's a company called The Electric Recording Company that presses super high-quality jazz and classical records at around £300 a pop (their 7-disk Mozart set was around £2,500). From reviews, these are supposedly the very best recordings and impossible to beat. So if I heard one of these and considered it a 10, then perhaps the next step below might be an Ultradisc One-Step which might rank an 8 in comparison (obviously I'm guessing here), perhaps a mint OG copy is a 7. Well then by that point any reissue which I think is good but not the best might only hit a 6 at the most.

Whats my point? I dont know, I kind of went off on a tangent and stuff. Basically, when I get asked to rank something I always struggle because of this very reason. What am I comparing it to? If im looking at a VMP Classics release and comparing it to an Electric Recording Company pressing it might get a 4, if im comparing it to and OG it might get an 8, if im comparing it to other Classics it might get a 10. Too subjective and it hurts my head just thinking about it.

 

[jamieanderson1968]

Sadly brickwalling on purpose requires nuance that a lot of engineers don't have

 

[supahypeag]

Really enjoyed these last few pages. It actually makes me consider something my girlfriend asked the other day. Her cousin has bought a Crosley type turntable and sent her a photo of it, and she then asked me it if was a good turntable. I told her it was definitely one to avoid (not that she told her cousin that) and she asked if my turntable was considered a good one. I said that I think its a really good one when you consider what's obtainable for me.

Now the way I described it to her was to imagine a beat-up banger of a car being the Crosley, then perhaps mine could be considered a decent newer Mercedes. I said the other thing is that there's a whole other level above that. Imagine the banger next to a Merc, the difference would be obvious and big BUT imagine if a new Ferrari pulled up next to the Merc. The difference would be massive again and that's the next level which just seems unobtainable to me (like the £25k turntables and the like).

Now to seamlessly slot this confusing anecdote into the current thread. So, with the ranking of audio quality from records, I tend to view them in similar brackets. There's a company called The Electric Recording Company that presses super high-quality jazz and classical records at around £300 a pop (their 7-disk Mozart set was around £2,500). From reviews, these are supposedly the very best recordings and impossible to beat. So if I heard one of these and considered it a 10, then perhaps the next step below might be an Ultradisc One-Step which might rank an 8 in comparison (obviously I'm guessing here), perhaps a mint OG copy is a 7. Well then by that point any reissue which I think is good but not the best might only hit a 6 at the most.

Whats my point? I dont know, I kind of went off on a tangent and stuff. Basically, when I get asked to rank something I always struggle because of this very reason. What am I comparing it to? If im looking at a VMP Classics release and comparing it to an Electric Recording Company pressing it might get a 4, if im comparing it to and OG it might get an 8, if im comparing it to other Classics it might get a 10. Too subjective and it hurts my head just thinking about it.

Someone should make one of those pain charts, but for recording quality. 1 ~ My ears are bleeding from disgust to 10 ~ This is what Heaven sounds like

 

[djdavedk]

I've got a UK Optimal press of De Stijl on the way, maybe it will sound great?

The White Stripes - De Stijl

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 2006 Vinyl release of "De Stijl" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

 

[Ericj32]

This stuff is so, so subjective ranging everywhere from the differences in gear and setup to downright just the listener's preference for a more open range of sound to a more aggressive up front mastering. Mine sounds fantastic- I also think comparing the WS mastering when they were still a very indie tier band versus a Loretta album that was recorded by Owen Bradley is just a disservice to both.

Mmmmmm I definitely feel you on spinning albums back-to-back and getting disappointed and underwhelmed whenever you play a record that doesn’t as impressive as the record you played beforehand!

You know what I think you might need to do Eric!?!? BLAST THAT WHITE STRIPES ALBUM! Like, just go for it and play De Stijl really loud on your turntable!

I’ve got this crazy feeling that you need to play it loud. As a result, you will immerse yourself in that punk, explosive, fun, raw, charismatic energy of De Stijl and then the pressing will just sound

I turned the volume up on my big knob (h/t: @Joe Mac , I think, for suggesting that purchase) I'm blasting it right now and it's sounds like it's just tentatively crawling out of my speakers and doesn't really want to come out. I'm not saying it needs to sound like any other album but the white stripes have all these stark contrasts in their general aesthetic, so I expected it to sound a little more stark and aggressive. I should probably turn it up louder, but I'm afraid that I'll forget to turn it down after and damage something.

 

[Joe Mac]

I turned the volume up on my big knob

I’m blasting it right now and it's sounds like it's just tentatively crawling out of my speakers and doesn't really want to come out. I'm not saying it needs to sound like any other album but the white stripes have all these stark contrasts in their general aesthetic, so I expected it to sound a little more stark and aggressive. I should probably turn it up louder, but I'm afraid that I'll forget to turn it down after and damage something.

Sorry I’ll be a grown up now...

Something being quiet and needing cranked isn’t always the sign of a bad pressing, it is, contrarily nearly always the opposite as it tends to mean it’s pretty dynamic. If it sounds good once you turn it up, that’s the case, if it doesn’t then that’s really disappointing!

 

[juiceless]

"Scar Tissue" by RHCP is supposed to be a somewhat soft ballad and yet it's about as distorted as a Death Grips song.

In this particular case, I think that's an improvement...

 

[Ericj32]

Sorry I’ll be a grown up now...

Something being quiet and needing cranked isn’t always the sign of a bad pressing, it is, contrarily nearly always the opposite as it tends to mean it’s pretty dynamic. If it sounds good once you turn it up, that’s the case, if it doesn’t then that’s really disappointing!

It sounds like it's coming through the speakers they'd have in the restroom of a restaurant.

 

[Joe Mac]

It sounds like it's coming through the speakers they'd have in the restroom of a restaurant.

Oh ok, my copy (2010 pressing) does not sound like that!

 

[NathanRicaud]

This White Stripes album is ️️

I absolutely love the sex appeal, the raunchy, playful and flirty nature of the album, and just that ‘riding a bull’ in a small kind of bar sexy kind of aesthetic! I think the pressing sounds great too! It’s just got a great old-school explosive sound to it, and the guitar sounds as well! I just love this!!! The pressing isn’t 10/10, but the pick is 10/10, the colour variant is 10/10, and the pressing sounds great, so this is an A+ Essentials ROTM for me!

 

[NathanRicaud]

Omg, the John Mayer Essentials ROTM sounds magnificent! Definitely an improvement in sound quality compared to The White Stripes ROTM pressing! I am so impressed with how dynamic this pressing of Continuum! I’m already falling in love with it! I’m listening to “I Don’t Trust Myself” now. It’s such a dreamy, warped, relaxing, warm, sexy song! ♥

 

[Cheesefry]

Yes! I definitely love rating albums! And I think Joe was being generous with his Phoebe Bridges pressing ratings! That pressing of Punisher was garbage! It’s like a 3/10 at best! It definitely sounds average and it is not quiet, especially for an album where you need a quiet pressing!

I just got my Magnolia club version of Phoebe’s Punisher and I’d give it a 5/10, a little muddy, but it’s clean and quiet.

 

[Sebastian]

fINAlLy got a shipping notice for the White Stripes.

 

[NathanRicaud]

I just got my Magnolia club version of Phoebe’s Punisher and I’d give it a 5/10, a little muddy, but it’s clean and quiet.

That’s great you got a quiet copy!

I need to give my Phoebe Punisher a good clean through the Spin Clean a few times and see if it reduces the surface noise! I need to make sure it’s quiet otherwise I’m going to get another copy and try it out!

 

[Chris V]

Listening to The White Stripes now and it sounds great! I haven’t heard the 2010 or 2017 pressings, but I am happy with this one. I haven’t heard John Mayer yet, but I agree that differences in how they were recorded is probably just as significant as how they were mastered.

 

[NathanRicaud]

Listening to The White Stripes now and it sounds great! I haven’t heard the 2010 or 2017 pressings, but I am happy with this one. I haven’t heard John Mayer yet, but I agree that differences in how they were recorded is probably just as significant as how they were mastered.

Mmmmmm the VMP pressing of De Stijl does sound great and I think you’re right. Even though I think the VMP pressing of Continuum sounds better, especially in soundstage presence, I think it has got to do with how both albums were recorded. John Mayer’s Continuum is so polished in sound in comparison to De Stijl; which has that edgy, raw, old-school sound!

 

[Cheesefry]

Thought this was timely...a live recording tribute to Buena Vista Social Club, filmed at Charleston Music Hall in 2019. Featuring musicians from Cuba, Miami, NY & Charleston. Premiers 8/14 on YouTube.