Vinyl Me Please Classics

zombie.modernist said:
As far as a curated pic goes I think there's no issue you can have with it. With you on the Bobo, I hate jazz pop covers, and that one is chuck full of cheesy ones. Miller I like, but I'm aware it's far from a "classic" in any sense of the term.

With this pick I get people's objection that this is an easy to find record, and not a terribly expensive one either, which is why I invoked the Isley brothers record. For whatever it's worth my Go For Your Guns VMP RKS cut is much more dynamic, clear and open than my OG T-Neck 3+3. That quality bump matters to me, but if others have only a passing interest in the Isleys or audiophile concerns the $5 copies out there shouldn't be objectionable at all. I think since moving to the Sterling cuts and QRP pressings the Classics lineup has become a bit more about the value of the pressing quality as opposed to the scarcity of the record.

Edit: plus I have learned here and at the older place over the years that a lot of folks just don't like buying used, which factors into differing views of "value".
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to be fair they’ve always made it clear that scarcity isn’t a factor in them making any pick, it’s just a bonus when a pick is one that was previously hard to get.
 
zombie.modernist said:
Edit: plus I have learned here and at the older place over the years that a lot of folks just don't like buying used, which factors into differing views of "value".
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I get the impression that you are spoilt in the US when it comes to high volumes of decent quality used vinyl at low prices. I find used availability a huge issue over here and when you do find something you want and the quality is right the cost is often off putting.
 
Joe Mac said:
I get the impression that you are spoilt in the US when it comes to high volumes of decent quality used vinyl at low prices. I find used availability a huge issue over here and when you do find something you want and the quality is right the cost is often off putting.
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Yes we are; however, I will say the last several crate digging expeditions have left me a little cold as prices seem to have skyrocketed and the quality of artists in the used bins has declined. My joke with the wife is that the dollar bin is now the $5/$10 dollar bin without an uptick in quality of either the selections or shape of the records themselves. And good luck finding anything even remotely known of for less than $10-$15, even if it's a super common album. I think a lot of people suddenly think every record is worth a fortune here, when it's not.
 
Joe Mac said:
Yeah completely get that. The soul are the ones I’m into and I’m willing to learn with the blues/funk. The jazz I find a bit more difficult and can only really make a judgment in isolation as to whether I like it and whether I find it interesting or relevant.
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I think one issue is that the Classics sub doesn't work well as a "crash course" for the uninitiated in any of its 3 main genres. To use jazz as an example, Freedom Rider is great but not as essential/basic/obvious as Moanin'; the Miles/Coltrane live album is cool and all, but probably less so if you don't know Kind of Blue. Jazz has been around for a long time, and there's a reason why the classics are the classics: most of the critically-acclaimed albums really are that good. If you're already familiar with the artists' more famous albums, then Classics becomes a better proposition. I may not be super excited about this Brubeck pick, but I am glad that it will expose me to a Brubeck album that is not Time Out (which I already have).

Anyway, that may be your qualm with the jazz picks.

Bobo was a bad pick and I feel weird calling it jazz. I guess that's what it is, though.

zombie.modernist said:
As far as a curated pic goes I think there's no issue you can have with it. With you on the Bobo, I hate jazz pop covers, and that one is chuck full of cheesy ones. Miller I like, but I'm aware it's far from a "classic" in any sense of the term.

With this pick I get people's objection that this is an easy to find record, and not a terribly expensive one either, which is why I invoked the Isley brothers record. For whatever it's worth my Go For Your Guns VMP RKS cut is much more dynamic, clear and open than my OG T-Neck 3+3. That quality bump matters to me, but if others have only a passing interest in the Isleys or audiophile concerns the $5 copies out there shouldn't be objectionable at all. I think since moving to the Sterling cuts and QRP pressings the Classics lineup has become a bit more about the value of the pressing quality as opposed to the scarcity of the record.

Edit: plus I have learned here and at the older place over the years that a lot of folks just don't like buying used, which factors into differing views of "value".
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I was surprised when I learned that, too. To me, buying old used records is basically the hobby.

Incidentally, I just picked up a $5 copy of Go For Your Guns last week, and it's great. I don't have a high-end system, so for me that was a much more cost-effective purchase than the VMP version that would cost me over 5x more.

wmeugene said:
Yes we are; however, I will say the last several crate digging expeditions have left me a little cold as prices seem to have skyrocketed and the quality of artists in the used bins has declined. My joke with the wife is that the dollar bin is now the $5/$10 dollar bin without an uptick in quality of either the selections or shape of the records themselves. And good luck finding anything even remotely known of for less than $10-$15, even if it's a super common album. I think a lot of people suddenly think every record is worth a fortune here, when it's not.
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I blame Discogs data for skewing the prices up. My local shop basically prices used records at the Discogs going rate plus shipping. It's super annoying.
 
Joe Mac said:
I get the impression that you are spoilt in the US when it comes to high volumes of decent quality used vinyl at low prices. I find used availability a huge issue over here and when you do find something you want and the quality is right the cost is often off putting.
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Hah! Must all be relative, most European cities I’ve been to have seemed like a dream for digging to me. Partially I think this is influenced by what you see as common could be rare to me or vice versa. I’ve seen plenty of bog-standard US pressings on the wall in these euro shops that I would flip by every other dig without blinking.

Quality is a major issue for me that’s slowed down my buying now that I live in a pricier city and the vinyl trend has prices so high. US vinyl quality over the years was really quite poor compared to most European countries and Japan. Even if you find records with NM surfaces the wax is often noisy. But for many collectors that don’t mind some surface noise used buys are quite a good way to build up a collection. Plus if you care about SQ you will eventually need to wade into used buys to get superior masterings for some titles.
 
zombie.modernist said:
Hah! Must all be relative, most European cities I’ve been to have seemed like a dream for digging to me. Partially I think this is influenced by what you see as common could be rare to me or vice versa. I’ve seen plenty of bog-standard US pressings on the wall in these euro shops that I would flip by every other dig without blinking.

Quality is a major issue for me that’s slowed down my buying now that I live in a pricier city and the vinyl trend has prices so high. US vinyl quality over the years was really quite poor compared to most European countries and Japan. Even if you find records with NM surfaces the wax is often noisy. But for many collectors that don’t mind some surface noise used buys are quite a good way to build up a collection. Plus if you care about SQ you will eventually need to wade into used buys to get superior masterings for some titles.
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small island and bloody high cost of living. There is no such thing as a €1 bin, you’re looking at €10 starting point. I’ve pricked up some gems down the years but nothing that was hugely cheap.
 
Joe Mac said:
To be honest I’m surprised this is the pick getting the debate. Bobo and Miller were utterly ridiculous picks, this is miles more on point than either. Had those two been dropped and 2 good soul albums released in their place it’d have been a much better year both in terms of quality and genre balance. As it is we got 5 jazz albums, two of which were average, and only 1 soul album...
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I agree that Celia & Johnny is better than both Bobo and Lloyd Miller! I think Lloyd Miller’s Oriental Jazz was a very good pick though. That album was cinematic in a wanderlust, cartoony, time-lapse, black and white way. The music sounded so youthful and fragile, but still adventurous and strong. I love that album.

I think Willie Bobo’s Uno, Dos, Tres is the worst Classics ROTM so far! As an overall listen, it’s just not as enticing and imaginative. It’s still a nice listen, but it isn’t anything amazing.

I’m looking super forward to spinning Celia & Johnny’s record! I think it’s one of my favourite Classics ROTM’s so far this year!
 
Joe Mac said:
small island and bloody high cost of living. There is no such thing as a €1 bin, you’re looking at €10 starting point. I’ve pricked up some gems down the years but nothing that was hugely cheap.
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Same here in Australia! We don’t have those cheap dollar bins in the record stores! Only when there are record fares (which usually occur on the weekend)!

I’ve went to a few of those record fares and I’ve never found anything I wanted. Everything I find second-hand that I want is AUD$20-$30+
 
NathanRicaud said:
I agree that Celia & Johnny is better than both Bobo and Lloyd Miller! I think Lloyd Miller’s Oriental Jazz was a very good pick though. That album was cinematic in a wanderlust, cartoony, time-lapse, black and white way. The music sounded so youthful and fragile, but still adventurous and strong. I love that album.

I think Willie Bobo’s Uno, Dos, Tres is the worst Classics ROTM so far! As an overall listen, it’s just not as enticing and imaginative. It’s still a nice listen, but it isn’t anything amazing.

I’m looking super forward to spinning Celia & Johnny’s record! I think it’s one of my favourite Classics ROTM’s so far this year!
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I’ve not heard it yet but I am giving it side eye for holding my Angel Olsen album hostage all this time...

also I can pretty much guarantee you I won’t prefer it to Call Me!
 
Joe Mac said:
I’ve not heard it yet but I am giving it side eye for holding my Angel Olsen album hostage all this time...

also I can pretty much guarantee you I won’t prefer it to Call Me!
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I definitely won’t prefer it over to Al Green’s “Call Me”. That record hits the spot so good, it makes me feel like I’m living the best life! ♥️
 
I love the Classics track so much!!!!! I want VMP to focus and do more quality AAA pressings of Soul/Funk/Blues/Gospel/Jazz from the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s! The Motown Anthology Box was outstanding!

So happy we are getting an AAA pressing of Aretha Franklin’s “I Never Loved A Man, The Way I Love You” !!!

I want more soul, blues & funk; similar to Al Green, Isley Brothers, Aretha Franklin, William Bell, Carla Thomas, Darrell Banks, Blossom Dearie, Buddy Guy & Sister Rosetta Tharpe!
 
Like we need some Stevie Wonder, Donny Hathaway, Minnie Riperton, Bill Withers and Roberta Flack!

And if we got something like Chaka Khan’s “Naughty”........that would be AMAZING!!!
Imagine spinning that album and listening to the song “Clouds”. That would give me so much positive, happy, energetic vibes! And it would be so fun dancing to that song too!
 
zombie.modernist said:
Hah! Must all be relative, most European cities I’ve been to have seemed like a dream for digging to me. Partially I think this is influenced by what you see as common could be rare to me or vice versa. I’ve seen plenty of bog-standard US pressings on the wall in these euro shops that I would flip by every other dig without blinking.

Quality is a major issue for me that’s slowed down my buying now that I live in a pricier city and the vinyl trend has prices so high. US vinyl quality over the years was really quite poor compared to most European countries and Japan. Even if you find records with NM surfaces the wax is often noisy. But for many collectors that don’t mind some surface noise used buys are quite a good way to build up a collection. Plus if you care about SQ you will eventually need to wade into used buys to get superior masterings for some titles.
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Im with @Joe Mac here in terms of America seeming to have a much richer supply of used records (from what I read online anyway). I would say that the amount of stories I have read of killer jazz being found super easily and cheap in, say, New York always amazes me.

On a side note I also completely agree with you about what us Europeans consider 'dollar bin' records and what you Americans see as 'dollar bin' records is almost certainly different. For example I frequented carboot sales almost weekly this summer and have left countless Bowie, Elton John, Queen, Beatles, Michael Jackson, etc records because I see them so often and its not worth the £1 people are asking for them. I imagine if these popped up in America they would be swept up.
 
Selaws said:
Im with @Joe Mac here in terms of America seeming to have a much richer supply of used records (from what I read online anyway). I would say that the amount of stories I have read of killer jazz being found super easily and cheap in, say, New York always amazes me.

On a side note I also completely agree with you about what us Europeans consider 'dollar bin' records and what you Americans see as 'dollar bin' records is almost certainly different. For example I frequented carboot sales almost weekly this summer and have left countless Bowie, Elton John, Queen, Beatles, Michael Jackson, etc records because I see them so often and its not worth the £1 people are asking for them. I imagine if these popped up in America they would be swept up.
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good old car boot sales! Aren’t they such a singularly English thing! I haven’t heard of one of them since I left England!

and yes you see the posts here of large dollar bin finds and estate sale grabs and these things just aren’t present here, you’d only get those types of grabs if someone from work/a family member donates a collection to you and even then you’ll binning god knows how many Mud albums to find an unplayable copy of Ziggy or Peppers that’s worth nothing anyway because a billion copies of it were pressed 60s/70s
 
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Joe Mac said:
good old car boot sales! Aren’t they such a singularly English thing! I haven’t heard of one of them since I left England!

and yes you see the posts here of large dollar bin finds and estate sale grabs and these things just aren’t present here, you’d only get those types of grabs if someone from work/a family member donates a collection too you and even then you’ll binning go knows how many Mud albums to find an unplayable copy of Ziggy or Peppers that’s worth nothing anyway because a billion copies of it were pressed 60s/70s
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You mean you dont spend your sunday mornings getting up at the crack of dawn to trudge around a freezing cold field whilst rifling through other peoples second-hand junk? :ROFLMAO:
 
NathanRicaud said:
Like we need some Stevie Wonder, Donny Hathaway, Minnie Riperton, Bill Withers and Roberta Flack!

And if we got something like Chaka Khan’s “Naughty”........that would be AMAZING!!!
Imagine spinning that album and listening to the song “Clouds”. That would give me so much positive, happy, energetic vibes! And it would be so fun dancing to that song too!
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everybody needs some more stevie in their lives, talking book would make an amazing classics pick and songs in the key of life would make an amazing essentials pick.

Also extensions of a man by donny Hathaway would make an amazing classics pick too. Instead it will be more likely they’ll release more now again 🤮 records.
 
Joe Mac said:
small island and bloody high cost of living. There is no such thing as a €1 bin, you’re looking at €10 starting point. I’ve pricked up some gems down the years but nothing that was hugely cheap.
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That could be an urban / suburban divide too. Its really not so different here price wise. I live in one of the most expensive US cities, sure we have plenty of volume of records, but high demand. Even shit you see all the time has crept up to $10 ish. Granted there are much cheaper markets in more rural areas, or lower rent areas of the country. As @Selaws mentions some common EU acts, mainly Queen and Bowie have always commanded some value even when it wasn’t trendy to like them because of an America’s death or Hollywood movie, and I’d assume the same in reverse.

That Brubeck album is going to pop up here more frequently as he’s an American artist and the volume of the pressings are likely here. When it does it’s unlikely to command over $25 even in top shape, as shops are too busting sticking $75 price stickers on beat up Blue Notes! So for me knowing how much that record could get here I can imagine it’s only cheaper for those who are in cheaper US markets.

Still, if I had a strong desire to get it, I would gladly go with the VMP which will play quietly and likely be mastered more dynamically than old US Columbia.
 
zombie.modernist said:
That could be an urban / suburban divide too. Its really not so different here price wise. I live in one of the most expensive US cities, sure we have plenty of volume of records, but high demand. Even shit you see all the time has crept up to $10 ish. Granted there are much cheaper markets in more rural areas, or lower rent areas of the country. As @Selaws mentions some common EU acts, mainly Queen and Bowie have always commanded some value even when it wasn’t trendy to like them because of an America’s death or Hollywood movie, and I’d assume the same in reverse.

That Brubeck album is going to pop up here more frequently as he’s an American artist and the volume of the pressings are likely here. When it does it’s unlikely to command over $25 even in top shape, as shops are too busting sticking $75 price stickers on beat up Blue Notes! So for me knowing how much that record could get here I can imagine it’s only cheaper for those who are in cheaper US markets.

Still, if I had a strong desire to get it, I would gladly go with the VMP which will play quietly and likely be mastered more dynamically than old US Columbia.
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thats completely irrelevant here because I’d be surprised if there wasn’t more record stores in Dublin than in the entire rest of the country combined, the urban area and commuter belt now comprise more than a quarter of our population. Plus in general you get everything cheaper, even in the most expensive parts of America it’s only rents that are comparable or greater than the more expensive European cities, the costs of actually buying stuff is way lower!

that said I stand by the fact that even if there are half a million in dollar bins scarcity isn’t a consideration in the picks, I don’t often defend VMP but this has been said so often you wonder why it resists entry into certain people heads...
 
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