Isn't Holly such a great character? I love her.
Television
- Thread starter gouis
- Start date
Definitely. With a show like this, that I don't know where it's headed, I never look up the actors while I'm watching because I don't want to see "appeared in 3 episodes" because that's kind of a spoiler. With that being said I hope she's around for awhile.
Hollywood
Well-Known Member
I
I think she plays a major role on how it all unfolds but we shall see.
This is a great article! I'm giving it a standing ovation. And I hope that you are right - that the OA isn't over.Brit Marling has an op-ed in NYT today:
Opinion | I Don’t Want to Be the Strong Female Lead (Published 2020)
In pop culture, women are often objectified and disposed of. But even when we’re not being victimized, the alternative leaves much to be desired.www.nytimes.com
This is really working for me on two levels:
1. It's just a great piece.
2. It does nothing to counter the theories that The OA isn't over. In fact I think some people will read the last few lines of the column and only become more convinced.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
To be clear -- I know the odds are against it. It only takes a few seconds of skimming reddit to see that some of these fan theories are not in touch with reality.
But it would be a pretty amazing feat if they pulled it off, especially with no leaks/winks/spoilers.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
BTW I finally finished Mr. Robot last week and the end was fine, I guess, but
I'm more convinced than ever that Esmail intended to take the Wellick story in a certain direction that didn't work out, so he just sidelined Tyrell and killed Joanna. It's the one element of the show that doesn't hang together as tightly as everything else in retrospect.
Also Esmail has said multiple times that what happened to the Wellicks was planned from the beginning. She was always going to die protecting him, while he was always going to die protecting Elliott. Idk, but the Wellicks storylines made perfect sense imo.
zombie.modernist
Well-Known Member
Partially agreed, on that plotline (loved the finale)
My issue wasn't that for the screentime we had with Wellick we didn't get much plot payoff compared to the other characters. I didn't expect there to be a different outcome, but I did feel like Wellick was a very "TV" character that kind of arc-ed and moved about on screen just for the drama of it all. Of course these kind of plots are in almost every TV show, but I agree with you that Mr. Robot has been so tight that it does stand out as a bit odd that he didn't serve the story in the same way someone like Price did.
I think we're just in a weird era where we're starting to question if the "TV" way to handle characters really makes sense in shows that are orchestrated more like longform movies.
I think Wellick served the story the same way Price did. Both were villains with a final good deed that Elliott needed in order to take down White Rose. Only difference is Price did it for Angela while Wellick did it for Elliott (and his son)
zombie.modernist
Well-Known Member
True true. That's just a weird by-product of a longform narrative, where the whole last minute redemption thing can feel a bit more trite when there's a thousand other obstacles ahead. Films use it all the time because the stakes are so narrowed by the timeframe no one bothers to reject it. Guess that's sort of what devalues Wellick's to me, feels like a less decisive blow to WR? Idk. Show is still one of the best of the decade but nothing is beyond nitpicking!
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking mostly of Season 1 and the screentime devoted to Wellick's corporate ambitions (his own hacker side story, paying bums to take out his aggression on them, the machinations of E Corp's CTO succession plan), but *especially* the season finale where Elliott is all disoriented in the wake of the hack and runs into Joanna on the street while he's looking for Tyrell. That scene in particular always stood out to me as something that would have to make more sense in retrospect, that we would eventually learn of some other connection between Elliott and the Wellicks that would explain the way that scene was scripted and shot.
The second season's withholding of Wellick, where his absence was such a glaringly important thread to resolve, didn't do any favors to those expectations either. I'd be more fine with how the characters were handled if the 'mystery' of what happened to Tyrell hadn't been dangled from the end of season 1 to, what, the middle of season 3, and then resolved with "well, he's just sort of a gullible loser, that's what happened to him."
But that said, I also haven't read any commentary by Esmail since the series ended, so I had no idea he had already responded to this. I'm not convinced it went off exactly as planned; maybe close, but it still ultimately feels like there was a piece missing, to me.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
I didn't have any issues with it. It was satisfying in its way. Finales are tough.
I've been thinking about where the show leaves Elliott. I'm glad it gives him a little bit of peace, but man, he's going to have to grapple with a pretty mind-boggling amount of death and suffering committed as a direct result of his actions. Yes, ultimately he thwarts the Dark Army's plan--maybe?--but wowza, the murders that he witnessed/had a role in.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
It was good. I'd also be totally sold on a spinoff about the life and adventures of Leon.
zombie.modernist
Well-Known Member
Yeah I agree with some of that. That's sort of what I was driving at with the "tv-ifying" fo the story. I know I keep stacking the mediums against each other but it's particularly interesting in this case as Mr. Robot developed from a script treatment and after the finale you can really see how that was the case, if you view seasons 2 and 3 as just an overwrought second act to a simple story.
In theory that core story is film-able, if you don't get too into the details which is what Esmail did, then flipped it into a TV show. Wellick does indeed work as an antagonist to Elliot that becomes a friend, but Esmail can get so much more out of him as a rich character, and he does. I guess the "problem" (if there is one) with this is that his and Joanna's role in the plot never rises to match the development and richness of their characters.
Of course I don't want to suggest that all TV characters need to be integrated into the plot, or all questions need to be answered. Hell, I love the LOST finale and Twin Peaks The Return is my top TV ending of all time. I just did feel like lots of the time we spent with the Wellicks didn't ammount to much by the end, but I think with TV so much of the appeal is the journey.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
Fresh Off The Boats series finale is fast approaching and I wanted to take a moment to give it some props. Constance Wu and Randall Park are a joy to watch. I love shows that are this easy to watch. I am also glad it is ending now as opposed to it wearing out its welcome as ABC likes to do with it’s Family sitcoms (looking at you Modern Family and The Goldbergs).
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
Yeah, you're dead-on. I remember after the first season hearing about how Esmail had said in interviews that if Mr. Robot were a movie, the first season would have been about the first 20-30 minutes. In that sense, you're right, stretching the second act out across 22 episodes and 2 years lent it more import (and made it fresher in the mind) by the time he got to the third act than it probably needed/deserved.
zombie.modernist
Well-Known Member
I have to say I keep forgetting this is Esmail's first go at being a showrunner. For a show from a freshman showrunner with only one feature film under his belt, it was a pretty great run, even if there's a bit of bloat in the middle!
Dirtbag Auntie
Well-Known Member
I'm glad we are at the end. This season has been greatly lacking, which has been disappointing. I'm seeing this through, unlike most shows that drop off in quality.