Sutherland Club House

In other Sutherland news, they have officially added a linear power supply for the 20/20 to the Sutherland website. They've had a "beta" one on the market for a bit, but it's nice to see it coming to the actual lineup. Also a little cheaper than the "beta" one was going for.
I'm not in a rush for it, but I'm sure I'll give into the temptation at some point.
LPS for 20/20 | Sutherland Engineering

I also saw in the Music Direct catalog that LPS options will be available for the Insight, and the Duo.
In the case of both of those units, it looks like it is built onto the board in the unit, while the 20/20 LPS is a single external box replacing the two switching power supplies.

Edit: here's some pics
15743702364024284641003446640901.jpg

15743703040431728047259474065770.jpg

1574370506629.png

Looks like all 3 options are basically the same LPS for the most part, but resistors are configured to the specific units, with the Duo obviously getting two LPS units total.
 
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In other Sutherland news, they have officially added a linear power supply for the 20/20 to the Sutherland website. They've had a "beta" one on the market for a bit, but it's nice to see it coming to the actual lineup. Also a little cheaper than the "beta" one was going for.
I'm not in a rush for it, but I'm sure I'll give into the temptation at some point.
LPS for 20/20 | Sutherland Engineering

I also saw in the Music Direct catalog that LPS options will be available for the Insight, and the Duo.
In the case of both of those units, it looks like it is built onto the board in the unit, while the 20/20 LPS is a single external box replacing the two switching power supplies.

Edit: here's some pics
View attachment 23258

View attachment 23259

View attachment 23260

Looks like all 3 options are basically the same LPS for the most part, but resistors are configured to the specific units, with the Duo obviously getting two LPS units total.
I LOVE when that catalog comes in the mail!
 
In other Sutherland news, they have officially added a linear power supply for the 20/20 to the Sutherland website. They've had a "beta" one on the market for a bit, but it's nice to see it coming to the actual lineup. Also a little cheaper than the "beta" one was going for.
I'm not in a rush for it, but I'm sure I'll give into the temptation at some point.
LPS for 20/20 | Sutherland Engineering

I also saw in the Music Direct catalog that LPS options will be available for the Insight, and the Duo.
In the case of both of those units, it looks like it is built onto the board in the unit, while the 20/20 LPS is a single external box replacing the two switching power supplies.

Edit: here's some pics
View attachment 23258

View attachment 23259

View attachment 23260

Looks like all 3 options are basically the same LPS for the most part, but resistors are configured to the specific units, with the Duo obviously getting two LPS units total.

I have no real need for this, yet I want it.
 
I'm trying to get an understanding of how a phono preamp works (well) to improve your sound. As mentioned ive been enjoying the ph3d but this is someone going from no dedicated pre amp to a Sutherland.

I want to know what separates this from a much cheaper amp.

Is my understanding correct that a preamp takes your signal and then splits up the different frequencies, "treating" them and amplifying them and then sending them out as a new signal. Would the difference between a cheap and a good amp be that you split up the signal and process more frequencies to get a richer sound or is it simply the selection of internal electronic components that make it "better"?
 
I'm trying to get an understanding of how a phono preamp works (well) to improve your sound. As mentioned ive been enjoying the ph3d but this is someone going from no dedicated pre amp to a Sutherland.

I want to know what separates this from a much cheaper amp.

Is my understanding correct that a preamp takes your signal and then splits up the different frequencies, "treating" them and amplifying them and then sending them out as a new signal. Would the difference between a cheap and a good amp be that you split up the signal and process more frequencies to get a richer sound or is it simply the selection of internal electronic components that make it "better"?
Pretty much, look at it like this, the "Basic" job of a pre-amp is to amplify the signal. That's what you will usually find in a built in/on board Phono input. The better the pre-amp, the better it amplifies, cleans and delivers the source by better circuitry and components. Better amps also cut down on the amount of "stuff" the signal passes through to get as clean a signal as possible, some amps have a "Straight Line" option on them doing the same thing, in an AV amp for instance, its cutting out the path through all the home theater circuitry and processing and delivering a straight path out the door so to speak.

Much wiser people than I can chime in and probably explain it more eloquently than I OR correct me, lol
 
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I'm trying to get an understanding of how a phono preamp works (well) to improve your sound. As mentioned ive been enjoying the ph3d but this is someone going from no dedicated pre amp to a Sutherland.

I want to know what separates this from a much cheaper amp.

Is my understanding correct that a preamp takes your signal and then splits up the different frequencies, "treating" them and amplifying them and then sending them out as a new signal. Would the difference between a cheap and a good amp be that you split up the signal and process more frequencies to get a richer sound or is it simply the selection of internal electronic components that make it "better"?
My science knowledge of this is probably about the same as @AnthonyI but I'll take a stab at saying the same things in different words.
Also, please note that I am not an engineer and will likely botch some of this below. Anyone with a stronger science background, please feel free to school me.

So ultimately an amp is an amplifier. This goes for a preamp as well.
Amplifiers by definition are electronic devices that can increase the power of a signal. Effectively, your phono pre-amp and your amp are doing the same thing, but at different levels.

So here is a wave:
1574866536867.png

The amplitude peak is the amount of energy - aka volume. So the signal waves coming from your turntable have a very very small amplitude. The phonostage's job is to get those signals up to a line level signal, which I believe is huge, like an exponential increase. The challenge is that when you amplify a signal, distortions happen. The other big challenge is we aren't looking at a single test tone in isolation. We're looking at voices, instruments, room sounds, electronic effects, etc, all being fed into one signal. All those constantly changing frequencies need to be amplified at the same rate, with minimal distortion. So the phonostage's job is to bring those signals up as cleanly as possible. A lot of that comes from signal path, materials, power supplies, etc. Just so we're clear, distortion isn't always heard. It's not like a cheap preamp sounds bad and ruins a song. BUT micro-distortions are what cause muddy sound, lack of instrument separation, loss of details, etc. The preamp does also somewhat shape the sound using RIAA (or DECCA or Columbia) curves.
This becomes exceptionally important in the phonostage because whatever the phono puts out, is what the amp has to work with. So the more pure the post-amplification signal is coming out of the phonostage, the better chance the amp has to deliver a further amplified signal to the speakers. You'll see that Sutherland keeps a fairly simple signal path, but his designs put in a lot of effort on removing electrical noise. This is where the excellent separation and darker backgrounds come in. The minimal signal path is trying to keep things fairly pure and uninterrupted.

So that's where the easy-ish science ends. If you get into speaker and digital audio discussion, you will find loads of people that make decisions purely based on how equipment measures. But then we have these other weird events that science doesn't really explain. Like why do two caps that measure the same sometimes make an instruments timbre/tone change? Why does silver produce a different sound from copper? Why do tubes sometimes sound more holographic, even if they measure "worse"? Why do any of us prefer vinyl that measures MUCH worse than high end digital?
These are the things I don't try to understand. I have some ideas, but honestly I don't care. Rather, I find equipment that sounds good, and I look for similarities.

Science folks - feel free to start roasting everything I said wrong. Just doing my best here :)
 
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I'm trying to get an understanding of how a phono preamp works (well) to improve your sound. As mentioned ive been enjoying the ph3d but this is someone going from no dedicated pre amp to a Sutherland.

I want to know what separates this from a much cheaper amp.

Is my understanding correct that a preamp takes your signal and then splits up the different frequencies, "treating" them and amplifying them and then sending them out as a new signal. Would the difference between a cheap and a good amp be that you split up the signal and process more frequencies to get a richer sound or is it simply the selection of internal electronic components that make it "better"?

Two things happen within a phono preamp:

As everyone else explained, a very large increase in voltage, from millivolts or even less to volts. The signal coming out of a phono cartridge is tiny.

The second thing that happens is equalization. Records are cut with a huge reduction in bass and an equally large treble boost. LPs wouldn't work without the bass reduction: grooves would be too far apart and the stylus would just ride on blank vinyl between the grooves.

Better phono stages generally offer three things over basic ones:

1. They are quieter as far as noise/hiss/hum. This allows for more low level details to come through instead of being buried behind a wall of noise.

2. They generally offer more accurate equalization to produce more realistic sound.

3. They offer varying amounts of adjustments to better match the user's cartridge to the phono stage.
 
So do we all still like the Insight for the price point? I’ve been a little off the market for a few months, but am back into shopping mode.
Depending upon the answer you get, and your proposed purchase time, mine may be coming up for sale in the next couple of weeks. More an FYI than anything.
 
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