Political Discussion

RenegadeMonster said:
Meanwhile, Biden is still unconditionally supporting Israel. Something that could cost him key states he just narrowly beat Trump in back in 2020.
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Look, I get that people want Biden to do something to stop Israel but if people choose to either stay home or vote for someone other than Biden, what exactly do they think will happen to Muslims around the world and in this country? Trump has already stated the Muslim Ban returns on day 1 if he's elected. You think Trump would stop Israel from doing anything? He would advocate for the wholesale slaughter of whoever opposed Israel. When the government is openly allowing hostility towards your religion and nationalities, do you think it was a good idea to let Trump get elected back into office? When discrimination is no longer taboo, do you think it was a good idea to stay home?

I am not happy with all things Biden but Trump getting elected could very well be the end of our democracy at most levels. I don't understand why this is difficult to see. The only thing that stopped him before was people with morals standing up to him or soft playing his goals. He now knows this and it will be only those loyal to him that will remain in government or be appointed to his cabinet. It will be a full blown autocracy. Look no further than the Supreme Court for the damage Trump's first term will have on generations of people.
 
I like that bus analogy...apologies if I butcher it. There is no perfect candidate. It's like choosing which bus to get on. The one that goes in the general direction of my destination is the clear/only answer, even if you have to sit by someone you would rather not, it stops frequently, it lets you out a few blocks away and you have to walk, or you have to wait at the stop longer than you would like before it picks you up. You don't choose a bus going in the opposite direction entirely.
 
Well, your choice is the bus headed in the wrong direction that could maybe steer itself right again or the bus that will most definitely drive you, your family, your friends, and people you claim to support off a cliff if left unchecked or allowed to continue on its route.

Once he regains power, he will do everything to keep it. And he has a flock of politicians that will help him with that because they too crave power and enjoy wielding it. If you don't believe me, check out what the GOP has done with gerrymandering to maintain control for decades. Check out how they wouldn't allow Obama's Supreme Court nominee to go forward when there was a vacancy. The GOP has no shame. They will always turn to the cruelest path. They will strip down portions of the government to do what they want going forward. They will do generational damage to this country that will be very hard to unwind once it is enacted.
 
Lee Newman said:
I mean we all feel this way. There are a lot of people that feel like Biden is the bus headed the wrong direction.
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The other bus is very likely Trump. Or, if we're lucky, someone who's not as willfully evil/craven/corrupt/authoritarian but just as willing to fuck fuck over large swathes of Americans just to score political points. In hindsight, Romney was a paragon of virtue and American ideals compared to these fucks.
 
mdmost said:
Look, I get that people want Biden to do something to stop Israel but if people choose to either stay home or vote for someone other than Biden, what exactly do they think will happen to Muslims around the world and in this country? Trump has already stated the Muslim Ban returns on day 1 if he's elected. You think Trump would stop Israel from doing anything? He would advocate for the wholesale slaughter of whoever opposed Israel. When the government is openly allowing hostility towards your religion and nationalities, do you think it was a good idea to let Trump get elected back into office? When discrimination is no longer taboo, do you think it was a good idea to stay home?

I am not happy with all things Biden but Trump getting elected could very well be the end of our democracy at most levels. I don't understand why this is difficult to see. The only thing that stopped him before was people with morals standing up to him or soft playing his goals. He now knows this and it will be only those loyal to him that will remain in government or be appointed to his cabinet. It will be a full blown autocracy. Look no further than the Supreme Court for the damage Trump's first term will have on generations of people.
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It's muslims and arabs that Biden's support is plummeting with. If Trump was president, Israel would be doing the exact same thing that Biden is allowing them to do right now. I certainly don't want Trump back, but I'm even less enthused about Biden now than I was 4 years ago. Dude needs to get it together or fuck off.
 
ayayrawn said:
It's muslims and arabs that Biden's support is plummeting with. If Trump was president, Israel would be doing the exact same thing that Biden is allowing them to do right now. I certainly don't want Trump back, but I'm even less enthused about Biden now than I was 4 years ago. Dude needs to get it together or fuck off.
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They all need to fuck right off and let somebody who isn't already halfway in the ground run things.
 
Sure but no one who would have a shot for President on the D side would tell Israel to stop or have an impact. Support for Israel and support against Israel are both weaponized. There is no middle ground any longer. You can't have nuance. You can't say I support Israel's right to exist but hate what they are doing in Gaza. You're going to lose support regardless of what side you take.

Do you think if Trump was in office during this that any aid would've made it to Gaza? That anyone would've been allowed to leave and return to the US? Do you think any pauses would've been sought by the US under Trump?

My hope is Biden wins and resigns after the first 100 days. Then the Democrats have 3 years to either get behind Kamala or find the next person to take on Trump...because it will be Trump until his body is in the ground.
 
mdmost said:
Sure but no one who would have a shot for President on the D side would tell Israel to stop or have an impact. Support for Israel and support against Israel are both weaponized. There is no middle ground any longer. You can't have nuance. You can't say I support Israel's right to exist but hate what they are doing in Gaza. You're going to lose support regardless of what side you take.

Do you think if Trump was in office during this that any aid would've made it to Gaza? That anyone would've been allowed to leave and return to the US? Do you think any pauses would've been sought by the US under Trump?

My hope is Biden wins and resigns after the first 100 days. Then the Democrats have 3 years to either get behind Kamala or find the next person to take on Trump...because it will be Trump until his body is in the ground.
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There isn't really a middle ground in this circumstance. Israel's existence, as a state, in its current iteration is predicated on the subjugation of the Palestinian people. Biden is trying to please everybody here, but it simply does not work. He's sending money en masse to a government that has called a group of people inhuman animals, and is bombing them indiscriminately as we speak, and ALSO trying to look like the ones looking out for those bombed people by sending a pittance of aid. Nobody should be buying it, and people are justifiably upset.

Also, no offense, but being stuck with a Kamala incumbent, especially by resignation, sounds horrible. Not interested in either of them.
 
mdmost said:
They want the annihilation of Hamas.
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Noble on paper, but extremely misguided.

Not only does Hamas only exist because of Israel, they have been propped up and funding by them for decades. Netanyahu and others are literally on record saying they need Hamas to exist to keep Palestinians and world opinion divided.

And even if this were true, reports suggest that only ~60 Hamas operatives have been killed in the last month. That's a 99% civilian death rate. Worth it?
 
You think those 34% of voters know or care anything about that? They know Hamas killed 1600 Israelies so if that means if all of Gaza is leveled to get to Hamas then that's justified.
 
mdmost said:
You think those 34% of voters know or care anything about that? They know Hamas killed 1600 Israelies so if that means if all of Gaza is leveled to get to Hamas then that's justified.
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To get back to the original point, if Biden doesn't want his numbers to flounder, he could try appealing to the blatant popular majority instead of pretending this is a 50/50 issue (or a 80/20 issue more like)
 
ayayrawn said:
And even if this were true, reports suggest that only ~60 Hamas operatives have been killed in the last month. That's a 99% civilian death rate. Worth it?
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Not to mention you have former US generals saying things in interviews about what Israel should do that are war crimes. Like legit war crimes illegal under international treaties. Like starve all of Gaza into surrender.

And when asked why they think this is okay, they respond with "because this is war".
 
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