Political Discussion

Dtknuckles said:
How is the progressive movement going to outlast Bernie? Lets be honest, he's not going to run for president again.
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This may sound a bit strange but Bernie might be seen as comparable to Barry Goldwater. He was not successful running for President in 1964 however, his ideas (mostly bad) did inspire many future Republicans moving forward.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Well, that is not what happened. This is the kind BS that is annoys the piss out of me. There are MANY reasons to not vote for Biden. Him stumbling over his words is not one of them. It is like when the Right used to say Obama was stupid because he once misspoke and said there were 52 states.

Why do the Rights dirty work for them?

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I'd say Biden's rapidly deteriorating cogency is one of the main reasons not to vote for him (in the primary). Even without fake video (as big of a problem as that is), it'll be extremely easy for the right to run circles around him.
 
www.cnn.com

Fissures widen between White House and health agencies over coronavirus

Fissures between the White House and national health agencies, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, have begun to expand as coronavirus spreads to more American states, creating dissonance between President Donald Trump and the professionals tasked with containing the virus...
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

Meanwhile
 
ayayrawn said:
I'd say Biden's rapidly deteriorating cogency is one of the main reasons not to vote for him (in the primary). Even without fake video (as big of a problem as that is), it'll be extremely easy for the right to run circles around him.
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This is garbage far right talking points. The 3 people currently running or Prez with even a remote shot of winning are all in their mid to late 70’s with varying potential health concerns. I wish both Bernie and Biden were younger but this is what we have. Expounding on why Bernie should be President based on policy is how to get people to vote FOR Bernie. Cheap digs on his opponent’s health does nothing but feed into a false narrative being spun by the Right. I know you can talk up Bernie without shitting on Biden.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
You started this whole conversation off by referencing a video that Twitter has tagged as misleading that was released by Dan Scavino, the White House Director of Social Media and Assistant to the President. This person is on the Far Right, No?
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Do you really think the idea that Biden is not in great mental health is the result of one video? The idea that having a legitimate concern over the mental health of a candidate is a "far-right" talking point is so ridiculous.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
You started this whole conversation off by referencing a video that Twitter has tagged as misleading that was released by Dan Scavino, the White House Director of Social Media and Assistant to the President. This person is on the Far Right, No?
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Yes, and acknowledged it was fake immediately after.

The only reason it exists is because its believable, and extremely easy to take advantage of. It's not a "far right" view that Biden is a horrible speaker who puts his foot in his mouth every other day. It's just how it is. He'll be curb stomped in the first presidential debate because he's not even close to the degree of speaker Trump is. As comfortable as it is to believe, criticisms of both Biden (AND Bernie) are valid, and not "far right talking points".
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
This may sound a bit strange but Bernie might be seen as comparable to Barry Goldwater. He was not successful running for President in 1964 however, his ideas (mostly bad) did inspire many future Republicans moving forward.
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I don't know much about Goldwater, but know the name. I thought about this because I watched a doc on the history channel about the industrial revolution and food production. They stuff they used to have to deal with before the FDA was pretty appalling. Roosevelt started the FDA what they said was a pretty progressive president. Heinz pushed for it because he was loosing money to competitors that were putting some disguising stuff in their products.
 
ayayrawn said:
Yes, and acknowledged it was fake immediately after.

The only reason it exists is because its believable, and extremely easy to take advantage of. It's not a "far right" view that Biden is a horrible speaker who puts his foot in his mouth every other day. It's just how it is. He'll be curb stomped in the first presidential debate because he's not even close to the degree of speaker Trump is. As comfortable as it is to believe, criticisms of both Biden (AND Bernie) are valid, and not "far right talking points".
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The only reason it’s “believable” to some is because the Far-Rght brings it up as a talking point frequently then it is parroted and echochambered online and through the media ad nauseum until it becomes a thing that low information voters will question. I can show you video after video of past Presidents and candidates flubbing lines and misspeaking. It’s about a big picture narrative they want to paint Biden as feeble minded. He is not feeble minded. You want to echo that sentiment bring actual evidence to support your claim. Biden has always been a walking gaff machine but there is a huge difference in misspeaking and not have the cognitive capabilities to be President. Trump is terrible at most everything to act like he is some savvy debater is absurd. Clinton wiped the floor with Trump in the debates (not that it even mattered).

Criticism is valid of candidates and their positions, bad faith arguments being made by operatives on the far-right to get voters to question the cognitive wellbeing their Likely opponent In hopes that others will parrot and confuse the issue is what was brought into this discussion by your comment. Again, if f you feel the need to actually attack anyone on substance have at it. That was not how this discussion started.
 
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Jorduck said:
Do you really think the idea that Biden is not in great mental health is the result of one video? The idea that having a legitimate concern over the mental health of a candidate is a "far-right" talking point is so ridiculous.
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It is a far-right talking point, every campaign spox for the Trump’s re-election is pushing hard that Biden is suffering from dementia. Just like last time out they pushed the Clinton was “unwell” narrative.

The man misspeaks that’s a fact. There is a big difference between that and having slowing cognitive abilities and suffering from dementia. You want to question his mental well-being, do it. Just bring actual facts, not flubs and doctored videos to support your claim.
 
CrazyDiamond84 said:
Can someone point me to these examples of Trump being such a good speaker? I've only ever seen clueless drivel and put-downs out of his mouth.
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He's a horrible speaker. Some of it is because he can't string any kind of logical argument together, but he is also very imprecise. However the later aspect I think uses to his advantage.

He's also a horrible communicator. He uses such partisan language that it creates all the opposition to his agenda. He would have gotten a lot more done if he would have just shut up and gone about his business. How much could he have gotten done if he would have been quietly racist?
 
CrazyDiamond84 said:
Can someone point me to these examples of Trump being such a good speaker? I've only ever seen clueless drivel and put-downs out of his mouth.
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For example this whole Contra virus is a hoax thing. I mean did he mean that is doesn't exist? Are they exaggerating its risk and danger? If he would have just come out and said we are working on it, health officials say XXX. It would not be an issue. No, now I got my 74 year old mother texting me at 4:30 AM all worried and blaming Trump for it's spread.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
There is a big difference between that and having slowing cognitive abilities and suffering from dementia. You want to question his mental well-being, do it. Just bring actual facts, not flubs and doctored videos to support your claim.
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I don't really want to argue about this anymore, because in the end it will boil down to neither of us being his doctor and neither of us willing to agree. My belief that Biden is declining cognitively boils down to three things (in no particular order):

1. I had a close relative live with dementia for 10+ years
2. A general consensus among people I interact with daily on the subject (a fairly wide variety of Bernie/Warren/Pete supporters who mostly identify as democrats)
3. The numerous gaffes

It's not just one, but a combination of all three. If you think that is biased I accept that. I had formed this opinion long before I saw this latest fake video. I think you're wrong to categorize it solely as a far right talking point because in my experience there are plenty on both sides who are concerned about Biden's mental state. Obviously the right will be weaponizing it. I can't provide definitive proof that he has dementia, or any other health conditions. Ultimately whether he has dementia or not does not bother me as much as his policies, so it's not going to affect how I vote, but I think health concerns are fair influences on your opinion of a candidate.
 
Jorduck said:
I don't really want to argue about this anymore, because in the end it will boil down to neither of us being his doctor and neither of us willing to agree. My belief that Biden is declining cognitively boils down to three things (in no particular order):

1. I had a close relative live with dementia for 10+ years
2. A general consensus among people I interact with daily on the subject (a fairly wide variety of Bernie/Warren/Pete supporters who mostly identify as democrats)
3. The numerous gaffes

It's not just one, but a combination of all three. If you think that is biased I accept that. I had formed this opinion long before I saw this latest fake video. I think you're wrong to categorize it solely as a far right talking point because in my experience there are plenty on both sides who are concerned about Biden's mental state. Obviously the right will be weaponizing it. I can't provide definitive proof that he has dementia, or any other health conditions. Ultimately whether he has dementia or not does not bother me as much as his policies, so it's not going to affect how I vote, but I think health concerns are fair influences on your opinion of a candidate.
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I don't think @TenderLovingKiller® is adversarial as you appear to think he is. As far as Joe. Well...I think most people think its a valid criticism, but using doctored media and memes is another issue. Yes its a far right talking point if you bring it up in a non factual manner, like they have been doing. I mean look at how the guy speaks that they are supporting.
 
Dtknuckles said:
I don't think @TenderLovingKiller® is adversarial as you appear to think he is. As far as Joe. Well...I think most people think its a valid criticism, but using doctored media and memes is another issue. Yes its a far right talking point if you bring it up in a non factual manner, like they have been doing. I mean look at how the guy speaks that they are supporting.
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Just to be clear I'm not trying to be hostile either, if my post came off that way I apologize.

As for the second part, I think it's obvious Trump has dementia too, but I don't think I, or anyone here, has facts to support that. I provided the reasons why I believe what I do about Biden, and I'm sure most people here have seen the unending stream of Biden clips as well as his debate performances. I think I've watched all but 1-2 debates this primary season so my viewpoint is not solely based on things he's said at campaign events. Ideally I wouldn't have to vote for anyone who is as old as Trump/Bernie/Biden/Warren/etc.
 
Jorduck said:
Just to be clear I'm not trying to be hostile either, if my post came off that way I apologize.

As for the second part, I think it's obvious Trump has dementia too, but I don't think I, or anyone here, has facts to support that. I provided the reasons why I believe what I do about Biden, and I'm sure most people here have seen the unending stream of Biden clips as well as his debate performances. I think I've watched all but 1-2 debates this primary season so my viewpoint is not solely based on things he's said at campaign events. Ideally I wouldn't have to vote for anyone who is as old as Trump/Bernie/Biden/Warren/etc.
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I think we are all concerned about Biden and Trump. Bernie and Warren not as much when it comes to age. They have proved that they can handle a lot and have remained steady.
 
Dtknuckles said:
I think we are all concerned about Biden and Trump. Bernie and Warren not as much when it comes to age. They have proved that they can handle a lot and have remained steady.
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Yeah I get that. My position is not really directed at their behavior but the fact that I don't really want to vote for anyone who is that old. There's a restriction on how young you can be and I think there should be a restriction on how old you can be too. Bernie could be in much worse health in 4 years than he is now. That's not going to stop me from voting for him tomorrow purely because he's the only remaining candidate I somewhat agree with on policies. If there was a younger option I would vote for them 🤷‍♂️

Edit to be clear: I'd vote for a younger person with similar stances to me, I wouldn't be a single issue voter on age lol
 
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