Movies

I feel too often that whether or not Die Hard (or other movies that take place during Xmas in the movie - e.g. Gremlins) are, in fact, Christmas movies is too often decided for or against, depending on the judge, without establishing criteria for a Christmas movie. Sort of like judging something as morally right or wrong without first establishing one's moral philosophy and have a meta-ethical discussion.

In fact, if criteria for a Christmas movie are agreed upon then the decision should be easy - either, yes, Die Hard and the ilk fit the criteria; or, no, they do not.

I tend to lean toward the "no" camp...but perhaps I haven't given the preceding questions from which the conclusion should follow enough weighted thought.

Should a so-called "Christmas movie" simply need to take place during Christmas or are there deeper thematic elements it should possess?

If so, what are those elements? Is it the possession of a "Christmas spirit" (and then, there is the branching dilemma of what constitutes that spirit)?

Are there redemptive qualities present in the storyline; built upon foundations of kith and kin; merriment; etc?

Left-field: is a Christmas movie simply one which there is the tradition of watching every Christmas, regardless of content? For example, if my sibling and I watch Jeepers Creepers every Christmas Eve, is that now a Christmas movie (at least for us, dispensing of what should perhaps be some sort of universality)?

Funny enough, and without the discipline I am suggesting above, my knee-jerk reaction would be that Groundhog Day would be a great nominee for a Christmas Movie if it so obviously didn't take place not at Christmas. That is, my gut tells me it has the other characteristics (albeit not sorted out) of what I think would constitute a Xmas movie.

Thoughts (about Die Hard, in particular; or the question, in general)?
 
Lord Diaper Baby said:
I feel too often that whether or not Die Hard (or other movies that take place during Xmas in the movie - e.g. Gremlins) are, in fact, Christmas movies is too often decided for or against, depending on the judge, without establishing criteria for a Christmas movie. Sort of like judging something as morally right or wrong without first establishing one's moral philosophy and have a meta-ethical discussion.

In fact, if criteria for a Christmas movie are agreed upon then the decision should be easy - either, yes, Die Hard and the ilk fit the criteria; or, no, they do not.

I tend to lean toward the "no" camp...but perhaps I haven't given the preceding questions from which the conclusion should follow enough weighted thought.

Should a so-called "Christmas movie" simply need to take place during Christmas or are there deeper thematic elements it should possess?

If so, what are those elements? Is it the possession of a "Christmas spirit" (and then, there is the branching dilemma of what constitutes that spirit)?

Are there redemptive qualities present in the storyline; built upon foundations of kith and kin; merriment; etc?

Left-field: is a Christmas movie simply one which there is the tradition of watching every Christmas, regardless of content? For example, if my sibling and I watch Jeepers Creepers every Christmas Eve, is that now a Christmas movie (at least for us, dispensing of what should perhaps be some sort of universality)?

Funny enough, and without the discipline I am suggesting above, my knee-jerk reaction would be that Groundhog Day would be a great nominee for a Christmas Movie if it so obviously didn't take place not at Christmas. That is, my gut tells me it has the other characteristics (albeit not sorted out) of what I think would constitute a Xmas movie.

Thoughts (about Die Hard, in particular; or the question, in general)?
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I think you raise a good point. Although I like to watch Die Hard at Christmas, it's not really a Christmas film is it? It's set during the Christmas period but that's about it. We watched Die Hard 3 the other day and I joked that it must be a Christmas film as he says one line that was something like "Its the jolly fat man".

There are a few films that encompass things that are stereotypical to Christmas but are not even linked to the period. For example, Snow Dogs (the Cuba Gooding Jr film) is one that I see pop up around this time of year but has no link to the festive period, its just set in Alaska with all the snow.
 
Max Sterling said:
Die Hard's soundtrack is Christmas music. It's about a man trying to reconnect with his daughters and estranged wife on Christmas. They go to a Holiday party, then things take a turn. It's a Christmas movie.
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So, then the only things stopping Taken from being a Christmas movie are the music and time of year?
 
Lord Diaper Baby said:
So, then the only things stopping Taken from being a Christmas movie are the music and time of year?
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If you're asking "If Taken was themed around Christmas, would it be a Christmas movie?" Then yes. The same way if you themed Home Alone around Halloween it would be a Halloween movie.
 
Max Sterling said:
If you're asking "If Taken was themed around Christmas, would it be a Christmas movie?" Then yes. The same way if you themed Home Alone around Halloween it would be a Halloween movie.
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Hmmm....I guess I think those are too loose of criteria is what I'm saying. So, being around Xmas time is obviously a necessary condition for an Xmas movie; but is it sufficient?

So...a movie like Christmas Vacation or, say, Scrooged....for those movies Christmas is integral to the story (heck, in the latter's case it is a retelling of A Christmas Carol revolving partially around the TV production of a telling of A Christmas Carol). I'd even say for Home Alone, Christmas is integral to the story. If you moved it to Halloween would it matter as much that he wasn't with his family (child welfare notwithstanding)? Halloween isn't a time for families to gather necessarily, but Christmas is so it helps to set the longing for family, the lessons learned by both Kevin, his mother, the neighbor, and the general conflict & resolution.

I think if you moved Die Hard to, say, Cinco de Mayo and John McClane showed up to an office margarita party to reconcile with his estranged wife, it wouldn't drastically change the tone of the film.
 
kvetcha said:
A Christmas Story
Shop Around the Corner
A Charlie Brown Christmas
Tokyo Godfathers
It’s a Wonderful Life (though I do not get to this one every year)
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Scrolled TOO LONG for me to see It's a Wonderful Life. Watch it every Christmas eve and gets me everytime, probably my #1.
 
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Lord Diaper Baby said:
Hmmm....I guess I think those are too loose of criteria is what I'm saying. So, being around Xmas time is obviously a necessary condition for an Xmas movie; but is it sufficient?

So...a movie like Christmas Vacation or, say, Scrooged....for those movies Christmas is integral to the story (heck, in the latter's case it is a retelling of A Christmas Carol revolving partially around the TV production of a telling of A Christmas Carol). I'd even say for Home Alone, Christmas is integral to the story. If you moved it to Halloween would it matter as much that he wasn't with his family (child welfare notwithstanding)? Halloween isn't a time for families to gather necessarily, but Christmas is so it helps to set the longing for family, the lessons learned by both Kevin, his mother, the neighbor, and the general conflict & resolution.

I think if you moved Die Hard to, say, Cinco de Mayo and John McClane showed up to an office margarita party to reconcile with his estranged wife, it wouldn't drastically change the tone of the film.
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Excellent points. But let's say National Lampoon's was set on the Fourth of July and instead of lights it was a fireworks display. Instead of a Holiday bonus, it's a raise or a promotion. For Home Alone, what if it was simply a summer vacation?

Obviously what gives these movies heart and makes them work is the idea that it's "Christmas" good will towards men and all that. But I would argue that without the Christmas theme of Die Hard, without the cheeky soundtrack, without the quips and jokes, without the intention of John to spend time with his family on Christmas it would be a lesser movie.
 
ayayrawn said:
Scrolled TO LONG for me to see It's a Wonderful Life. Watch it every Christmas eve and gets me everytime, probably my #1.
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Funny enough my Christmas obsessed mother had never seen it, so my parents watched it for the first time last week. They liked it, but both said "it's not really a Christmas movie, though..."
 
Lord Diaper Baby said:
Hmmm....I guess I think those are too loose of criteria is what I'm saying. So, being around Xmas time is obviously a necessary condition for an Xmas movie; but is it sufficient?

So...a movie like Christmas Vacation or, say, Scrooged....for those movies Christmas is integral to the story (heck, in the latter's case it is a retelling of A Christmas Carol revolving partially around the TV production of a telling of A Christmas Carol). I'd even say for Home Alone, Christmas is integral to the story. If you moved it to Halloween would it matter as much that he wasn't with his family (child welfare notwithstanding)? Halloween isn't a time for families to gather necessarily, but Christmas is so it helps to set the longing for family, the lessons learned by both Kevin, his mother, the neighbor, and the general conflict & resolution.

I think if you moved Die Hard to, say, Cinco de Mayo and John McClane showed up to an office margarita party to reconcile with his estranged wife, it wouldn't drastically change the tone of the film.
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I think it’s quite simple there has to be a Christmas theme for a movie to be truly a Christmas movie. Home Alone is almost not a Christmas movie but the underlying message of family and togetherness marries well with Christmas. Gremlins, Die Hard, Metropolitan, et al. Are set during the Christmas holiday but are missing the underlying Christmas theme that would move them into the “Christmas movie” Category. If anyone enjoys watching any of these movies during the holiday more power to em. They can be still be part of a holiday tradition and thus become personal Christmas movies.
 
Max Sterling said:
Excellent points. But let's say National Lampoon's was set on the Fourth of July and instead of lights it was a fireworks display. Instead of a Holiday bonus, it's a raise or a promotion. For Home Alone, what if it was simply a summer vacation?

Obviously what gives these movies heart and makes them work is the idea that it's "Christmas" good will towards men and all that. But I would argue that without the Christmas theme of Die Hard, without the cheeky soundtrack, without the quips and jokes, without the intention of John to spend time with his family on Christmas it would be a lesser movie.
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That’s a good counter argument regarding Christmas Vacation.
Ill concede that the soundtrack and setting may empower DH; but I don’t think it guides it. The idea that it is a Christmas movie - at least the popular assertion - is maybe 10-15 years old. I submit that it is conspiracy being propped up by the Hipster Illuminati. One day I’ll find out why - probably something to do with irony.

Btw this is my favorite type of argument/debate - low stakes and inconsequential
 
ayayrawn said:
Scrolled TOO LONG for me to see It's a Wonderful Life. Watch it every Christmas eve and gets me everytime, probably my #1.
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Its my favourite Christmas film as well. Heres a bit of trivia for you, the scene where James Stewart cries at the bar wasn't planned, he had just returned from military service and it all got to be a bit too much (so I have read anyway)
 
MsLoganHenney said:
I forgot there was a movie thread, and posted this in the television thread first. Sorry about that, Mods! Either way, I was wondering if anyone has a tradition of watching certain movies during the holidays? I was talking with a friend about this the other day, and I got to thinking about what I like to watch over the holidays. My list (in no special order) is below.

White Christmas
The Christmas Chronicles 1 & 2
This Christmas
Polar Express
The Grinch Stole Christmas (Jim Carrey version)
Klaus
Jingle Jangle
Rise of the Guardians
Last Holiday
The Muppet Christmas Carol
The Santa Clause 1-3

Open to adding more if you have any suggestions.
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HOW DARE YOU.

We rotate, but this year is Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. When I am feeling misanthropic it's Bad Santa.
 
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