Gotta warp, these members can help. [Vinyl Flat]

Thackeraye said:
W


Oh dear! Glad it came out ok though, and to be fair, the Vinyl Flat had a fair amount of work to do.

What did you think of it? I’ve not given it enough listens to make a final call on it...
Click to expand...

I actually quite enjoyed it! I’ll have to give it a few more spins to get familiar.
 
Kris said:
Something like this works well with the vinyl flat. For those of us that are forgetful :)
It cuts the power at the programmed interval.

Timer Outlet, Nearpow Multifunctional Infinite Cycle Programmable Plug-in Digital Timer Switch With 3-prong Outlet for Appliances, Energy-saving Timer
Click to expand...
Yep, 1st thing I bought after placing my order for the Vinyl Flat
 
Hey guys,

Vinyl flat owner here. As some of the veteran Vflat owners here know (because they helped me through my meltdown), a 108 degree day last July added a bunch of subtle and not-so-subtle (hello, original copy of License to Ill that my brother got me) warps to the collection.

I have a couple questions, but first the background:

A) I've had success with several of my black records-- not adding any pops or clicks to the record. But I've found nearly every colored record I've put through the thing has come out with the audio effected... Even if I only put it in there for an hour.

B) My process has been to put the record through the Spin Clean, dry said record and then take a Marc 6 brush to it in an attempt to remove any potential (lint free) fibers from the clothes.

C) I have really only pressed maybe 10-15 records since buying the thing last August. Mostly (colored) VMP pressings that were mailed to me warped. Plus the hand full of black records. I find myself fearful that the spin clean + rags doesn't do enough to yank potential residue from the record before cooking it. Yet, I'm realizing it's gonna be awhile before I can afford a vaccuum related cleaner and I miss spinning records.

D) It sounds like @mcherry suggests a second bath in just distilled water to ensure you've taken the soap off. I shall try that.

3) My VF seems to hover in the 140's, possibly the low 150's if memory serves.

Now to the questions:

1) How big should a warp be before I consider the vinyl flat? Because a ton of my records have micro warps from that fateful day. I know this is all subjective... but am I perhaps better off ignoring the warps that are negligible or is even a slight warp liable to cause problems for my needle and wear and tear on the record.

2) @mcherry mentions using books for smaller warps. I don't have books of the right size for that. Have you attempted to just use the vinyl flat instead? And doesn't prolonged time in an uncooked flat risk flattening grooves and causing just as much damage as cooking it? I.E... should this just be the tactic for colored records

3) Do people have thoughts on which colors are more safe to cook than others? For example, I found that the red Mitski record did not like even 45 mins of a low heat cook, ditto for the orange side of my Fugees swirl (which I think I gave an hour and a half). But my splattered grey Nothing record came out sounding mostly great other than a touch of surface noise after an hour and 15 minute cook.

Thanks in advance. Oh, and I agree 1000% with Kris that an outlet timer is the way to go.
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
Hey guys,

Vinyl flat owner here. As some of the veteran Vflat owners here know (because they helped me through my meltdown), a 108 degree day last July added a bunch of subtle and not-so-subtle (hello, original copy of License to Ill that my brother got me) warps to the collection.

I have a couple questions, but first the background:

A) I've had success with several of my black records-- not adding any pops or clicks to the record. But I've found nearly every colored record I've put through the thing has come out with the audio effected... Even if I only put it in there for an hour.

B) My process has been to put the record through the Spin Clean, dry said record and then take a Marc 6 brush to it in an attempt to remove any potential (lint free) fibers from the clothes.

C) I have really only pressed maybe 10-15 records since buying the thing last August. Mostly (colored) VMP pressings that were mailed to me warped. Plus the hand full of black records. I find myself fearful that the spin clean + rags doesn't do enough to yank potential residue from the record before cooking it. Yet, I'm realizing it's gonna be awhile before I can afford a vaccuum related cleaner and I miss spinning records.

D) It sounds like @mcherry suggests a second bath in just distilled water to ensure you've taken the soap off. I shall try that.

3) My VF seems to hover in the 140's, possibly the low 150's if memory serves.

Now to the questions:

1) How big should a warp be before I consider the vinyl flat? Because a ton of my records have micro warps from that fateful day. I know this is all subjective... but am I perhaps better off ignoring the warps that are negligible or is even a slight warp liable to cause problems for my needle and wear and tear on the record.

2) @mcherry mentions using books for smaller warps. I don't have books of the right size for that. Have you attempted to just use the vinyl flat instead? And doesn't prolonged time in an uncooked flat risk flattening grooves and causing just as much damage as cooking it? I.E... should this just be the tactic for colored records

3) Do people have thoughts on which colors are more safe to cook than others? For example, I found that the red Mitski record did not like even 45 mins of a low heat cook, ditto for the orange side of my Fugees swirl (which I think I gave an hour and a half). But my splattered grey Nothing record came out sounding mostly great other than a touch of surface noise after an hour and 15 minute cook.

Thanks in advance. Oh, and I agree 1000% with Kris that an outlet timer is the way to go.
Click to expand...
I would do the brush before the spin clean. I’d be afraid the brush would be reintroducing dust and particles to the record. Yes, I do like the distilled water only rinse.

I’ve never used the flat alone without heat but I’ve also left a record in a flat for a few weeks after a normal heating cycle and there were no ill effects. I don’t see any harm.

One thing I would recommend is trying to listen to the clean record before flattening and noting where the clicks are. Clean again and then flatten and then listen again. This would be one way to rule out the flat causing the noise. Also, colored vinyl tends to be noisier anyway. Something to keep in mind.

As for mild warps, if my clamp takes care of it on the TT then I don’t bother with trying to flatten.
 
mcherry said:
I would do the brush before the spin clean. I’d be afraid the brush would be reintroducing dust and particles to the record. Yes, I do like the distilled water only rinse.

I’ve never used the flat alone without heat but I’ve also left a record in a flat for a few weeks after a normal heating cycle and there were no ill effects. I don’t see any harm.

One thing I would recommend is trying to listen to the clean record before flattening and noting where the clicks are. Clean again and then flatten and then listen again. This would be one way to rule out the flat causing the noise. Also, colored vinyl tends to be noisier anyway. Something to keep in mind.

As for mild warps, if my clamp takes care of it on the TT then I don’t bother with trying to flatten.
Click to expand...

Thanks as always @mcherry. When you're talking clamp, your talking one that goes over the center of the record, correct? My table (a Planar 2) , unfortunately, does not have a clamp that goes naturally with the table. There are a couple of expensive options (if memory serves $200) that it may be time to consider because of my situation, but honest question... how does putting weight on the center of the record help the situation? If I press my fingers down onto the center label, I find that the outter edge of the record almost always goes further up.

I started using the brush because I felt that the lint free rags were sometimes leaving threads behind during the drying process. Perhaps I need a different drying tactic?

Also, this a photo of a sort of middle of the road situation. I.E. a Mac Demarco record where the warp is not subtle but not god awful... (Just for context).

4662

Where as this would be an example of the more subtle kind of warp that a ton of my records now suffer from... you can see the very slight gap on the right portion of the record via where the suddenly papers to be a black "underline"

4667

jaycee said:
I haven't had any issues with colored vinyl except one that I forgot about - didn't turn the timer on. I think you're probably cooking them too hot. Also if you're in LA yours probably won't take as long to come up to temperature and will more easily maintain temps
Click to expand...

Interesting that the high heat isn't a problem if in small doses. Also, the fact that you haven't really had issues with colored vinyl would reinforce the idea that it's the cleaning / drying process that I really need to nail down. Do you guys ever vacuum the felt padding that comes with the flat? I've wondered if those being dirty could also be a problem.
 
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DownIsTheNewUp said:
Hey guys,

Vinyl flat owner here. As some of the veteran Vflat owners here know (because they helped me through my meltdown), a 108 degree day last July added a bunch of subtle and not-so-subtle (hello, original copy of License to Ill that my brother got me) warps to the collection.

I have a couple questions, but first the background:

A) I've had success with several of my black records-- not adding any pops or clicks to the record. But I've found nearly every colored record I've put through the thing has come out with the audio effected... Even if I only put it in there for an hour.

B) My process has been to put the record through the Spin Clean, dry said record and then take a Marc 6 brush to it in an attempt to remove any potential (lint free) fibers from the clothes.

C) I have really only pressed maybe 10-15 records since buying the thing last August. Mostly (colored) VMP pressings that were mailed to me warped. Plus the hand full of black records. I find myself fearful that the spin clean + rags doesn't do enough to yank potential residue from the record before cooking it. Yet, I'm realizing it's gonna be awhile before I can afford a vaccuum related cleaner and I miss spinning records.

D) It sounds like @mcherry suggests a second bath in just distilled water to ensure you've taken the soap off. I shall try that.

3) My VF seems to hover in the 140's, possibly the low 150's if memory serves.

Now to the questions:

1) How big should a warp be before I consider the vinyl flat? Because a ton of my records have micro warps from that fateful day. I know this is all subjective... but am I perhaps better off ignoring the warps that are negligible or is even a slight warp liable to cause problems for my needle and wear and tear on the record.

2) @mcherry mentions using books for smaller warps. I don't have books of the right size for that. Have you attempted to just use the vinyl flat instead? And doesn't prolonged time in an uncooked flat risk flattening grooves and causing just as much damage as cooking it? I.E... should this just be the tactic for colored records

3) Do people have thoughts on which colors are more safe to cook than others? For example, I found that the red Mitski record did not like even 45 mins of a low heat cook, ditto for the orange side of my Fugees swirl (which I think I gave an hour and a half). But my splattered grey Nothing record came out sounding mostly great other than a touch of surface noise after an hour and 15 minute cook.

Thanks in advance. Oh, and I agree 1000% with Kris that an outlet timer is the way to go.
Click to expand...
My one recommendation is to monitor your heat really closely. Since I've gotten my VF I've noticed that at MED and measuring at the same spot of the pouch, the temperature has gone up. So I don't know if the elements are "Burning in" so to speak, but I constantly measure the temp. Colored vinyl is a bit touchy, but at MED for 1.25 hours you can get out a dish pretty easily. I've also noticed that if you don't let the album cool COMPLETELY in the VF before removing it, it tends to go somewhat back to it's original state. Odd, but I've had it happen on one album, and once I started leaving it be to cool it hasn't happened again.
 
AnthonyI said:
My one recommendation is to monitor your heat really closely. Since I've gotten my VF I've noticed that at MED and measuring at the same spot of the pouch, the temperature has gone up. So I don't know if the elements are "Burning in" so to speak, but I constantly measure the temp. Colored vinyl is a bit touchy, but at MED for 1.25 hours you can get out a dish pretty easily. I've also noticed that if you don't let the album cool COMPLETELY in the VF before removing it, it tends to go somewhat back to it's original state. Odd, but I've had it happen on one album, and once I started leaving it be to cool it hasn't happened again.
Click to expand...

VF seems to recommend a temp in the mid 130's but have you guys found a temperature you prefer... presuming it shifts a bit depending on weight/color?
 
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DownIsTheNewUp said:
VF seems to recommend a temp in the mid 130's but have you guys found a temperature you prefer... presuming it shifts a bit depending on weight/color?
Click to expand...
Mine seems to sit at 154 in the middle of the pouch (the inner fold is a bit hotter and the outer a bit cooler - Side Note: If you have an edge warp, put it towards the fold) at a MED setting. VF recommends between 130-150. I've tried it on low, but the temp dips too low, on high, not willing to risk it.

This is what I've gotten so far....
4673
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
Thanks as always @mcherry. When you're talking clamp, your talking one that goes over the center of the record, correct? My table (a Planar 2) , unfortunately, does not have a clamp that goes naturally with the table. There are a couple of expensive options (if memory serves $200) that it may be time to consider because of my situation, but honest question... how does putting weight on the center of the record help the situation? If I press my fingers down onto the center label, I find that the outter edge of the record almost always goes further up.

I started using the brush because I felt that the lint free rags were sometimes leaving threads behind during the drying process. Perhaps I need a different drying tactic?

Also, this a photo of a sort of middle of the road situation. I.E. a Mac Demarco record where the warp is not subtle but not god awful... (Just for context).

View attachment 4662

Where as this would be an example of the more subtle kind of warp that a ton of my records now suffer from... you can see the very slight gap on the right portion of the record via where the suddenly papers to be a black "underline"

View attachment 4667



Interesting that the high heat isn't a problem if in small doses. Also, the fact that you haven't really had issues with colored vinyl would reinforce the idea that it's the cleaning / drying process that I really need to nail down. Do you guys ever vacuum the felt padding that comes with the flat? I've wondered if those being dirty could also be a problem.
Click to expand...
I use a lint roller on the padding
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
Thanks as always @mcherry. When you're talking clamp, your talking one that goes over the center of the record, correct? My table (a Planar 2) , unfortunately, does not have a clamp that goes naturally with the table. There are a couple of expensive options (if memory serves $200) that it may be time to consider because of my situation, but honest question... how does putting weight on the center of the record help the situation? If I press my fingers down onto the center label, I find that the outter edge of the record almost always goes further up.

I started using the brush because I felt that the lint free rags were sometimes leaving threads behind during the drying process. Perhaps I need a different drying tactic?

Also, this a photo of a sort of middle of the road situation. I.E. a Mac Demarco record where the warp is not subtle but not god awful... (Just for context).

View attachment 4662

Where as this would be an example of the more subtle kind of warp that a ton of my records now suffer from... you can see the very slight gap on the right portion of the record via where the suddenly papers to be a black "underline"

View attachment 4667



Interesting that the high heat isn't a problem if in small doses. Also, the fact that you haven't really had issues with colored vinyl would reinforce the idea that it's the cleaning / drying process that I really need to nail down. Do you guys ever vacuum the felt padding that comes with the flat? I've wondered if those being dirty could also be a problem.
Click to expand...
A clamp is different than a weight. You’re right, a weight will just exacerbate a warp (when dish is up). A clamp actually fastens to the spindle and puts flattening pressure on the record to force as much of the record as possible to the platter. This works better with clamps that use a felt washer (I have a Michell clamp). But if you can’t use a clamp with your TT then a good rule of thumb is to flatten if the up/down is more than 2mm. That was the cutoff I saw once on a pressing plant’s online specs.
 
DownIsTheNewUp said:
VF seems to recommend a temp in the mid 130's but have you guys found a temperature you prefer... presuming it shifts a bit depending on weight/color?
Click to expand...
I personally don’t adjust the heat setting. I keep it on low and I only adjust cook times. I don’t remember the temp of my pouch but I think it was high 130s. On the higher side compared to my previous pouch definitely. I used to leave records cooking over night without any problems in the old pouch.
 
Well, we're going to attempt to fix a stylus hopping edge wave/warp. I don't know how this played on my Orbit before, but on my UD the stylus goes flying. An inexpensive Zeppelin record,so we'll see how it goes. :)
 
AnthonyI said:
Well, we're going to attempt to fix a stylus hopping edge wave/warp. I don't know how this played on my Orbit before, but on my UD the stylus goes flying. An inexpensive Zeppelin record,so we'll see how it goes. :)
Click to expand...

I’ve fixed these successfully.
 
I've had a Vinyl Flat since November and have a few anecdotal observations to throw in the mix:

1) It's really important to monitor the temperature of the pouch. I use the meat thermometer provided with the VF. I could use my Thermopen if I wanted more precision, but I believe the provided thermometer does the job. I actually always use the thermometer. I just slip the tip of the probe into the pouch as I close it up, to monitor near the center. Just tightly velcro around the probe. I don't observe much heat loss from the area. You could use the same technique to measure any part of the pouch in real-time, while you flatten a record. Since the provided thermometer does not have a quick temperature reading response (like a Thermopen does), I believe this is the best technique to get a good temperature reading.

2) My pouch goes to about 128-130F at the medium setting. I've had good success with this temperature. My current protocol for any black vinyl edge warp or dish is to run it for 2.5 hours in the VF with the heat. I use a wall timer so it automatically shuts off. I then leave it cool in the pouch another 2-3 hours. Works most of the time for either standard weight or 180g.

3) For solid color vinyl, I do the same protocol as above. For translucent vinyl, I found that you need to be careful with cooking time. Back when I was starting out, I was doing longer 8 hour cooks for just about everything. It worked really well. But I noticed some swooshing only with two clear translucent records. Not sure it was the VF, but I've since reduced the translucent vinyl cook time to 2 hrs and that works really well with no effect on sound after dozens of flattened records of all kinds.

4) I clean my records with the Spin Clean prior to putting in the VF.
 
I’m purchasing some record from @resik and he has both listed as having some amount of warping. I’d like to arrange to have the records shipped to one of y’all offering this service and then have y’all forward the flatttened discs on to me. So, who up for this?😬
 
Chucktshoes said:
I’m purchasing some record from @resik and he has both listed as having some amount of warping. I’d like to arrange to have the records shipped to one of y’all offering this service and then have y’all forward the flatttened discs on to me. So, who up for this?😬
Click to expand...
I can do it for you. Looks like @resik is in the DC area, if not DC itself. I'm outside of DC so that shipping should be cheap.

I do have an album finishing up in my flat right now. Then I have to put another one in. So there would be a little bit of a line.
 
So I cleaned and rinsed my Alabama Shakes: S&C (clear variant) yesterday and put it into the VF after cleaning the padding with a lint roller.

I plan on avoiding the pouch and just seeing this warm weather (probs 85 degrees in my bedroom where I put it) will suffice since it's both a colored vinyl and a minor warp. Thoughts on how long to leave it doing its thing?
 
Teeeee said:
I can do it for you. Looks like @resik is in the DC area, if not DC itself. I'm outside of DC so that shipping should be cheap.

I do have an album finishing up in my flat right now. Then I have to put another one in. So there would be a little bit of a line.
Click to expand...
I’m not in any hurry, I’m leaving the house today and won’t be back for over a month. So that works for me.
 
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