Gotta warp, these members can help. [Vinyl Flat]

AnthonyI

AnthonyI

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2019
Messages
8,627
Location
ILLI-NOISE
UPDATED: 8/21/2022
Myself and a few other members have stepped up and are willing to help members with their warped album. Below is the list of members willing and happy to help. If you would like to be added to the list, please PM me.

List by forum name and location:
Process:
  • Contact the member providing the service by PM
  • Work out any details between yourselves (Shipping, etc)
    • Keep in mind not all warps can be fixed and honestly some warps may not be worth messing with. If you have a severe warp please send the "Flattener" an image, or post one to the thread for some feedback.
Things to know:
  • While all of us take all the proper precautions and have done our homework, there is no guarantee that something may go wrong. There hasn't been any reports of any issues, but you should still consider this when sending something to be flattened.
  • This is a time consuming process, a single album with a simple warp can take up to 6-7 hours. This consists of pre-heating, pressing and proper cool down to avoid "vinyl memory" causing the warp to come back.
  • If you want your albums to be placed in new inner sleeves after being cleaned and pressed, please include them, otherwise your albums will come back the way they were received.
  • Albums will be shipped back in the packaging provided unless other arrangements are made.
  • The list of members above have offered their time for free, but please take into consideration what you're sending and how long it may take to complete based on the severity of the warp or qty of albums sent, and use that to decide if it might be worth sending along a little "tip" as an additional Thank You ;)
  • It's also completely up to the individual doing the work to ask for compensation based on the request/service or member status. Work all this out before sending anything to the member performing the service.
Things to consider before sending an album to be flattened:
  • "Am I ok with risking this pressing getting damaged?" - Again, there is always a possibility of something going wrong, if you have any concern or hesitation I would recommend NOT sending it in.
  • "Is this warp worth flattening?" - I hate all warps, that being said, please consider if the minimal wave you see is worth sending in to be flattened. Bare in mind what's been mentioned before in terms of "Things still could go wrong". While the VMP coin rule is ridiculous, there are warps that are better left alone. Some warped albums are only going to get so flat and there are other warps that truly will not effect playback or your stylus, have realistic expectations and also take into consideration the time involved from our side, I own the Vinyl Flat and still don't flatten EVERY warp that comes into my collection.
  • Again, this service is being provided on a persons personal time, please be patient and understanding of possible turn around times and always discuss this up front to avoid issues.
If anyone has any questions please feel free to post to the thread or contact me directly and I'll be more than happy to provide as many answers as I can.



**Needles and Grooves and it's forum have no liability or affiliation with this service.
 
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Not sure this is the best place to post this, so feel free to delete...

I know there was a huge dump of Vinyl Flat knowledge on the prior place from owners like @AnthonyI and @mcherry that really exceeded what I've seen on other forums. Would it be possible to set up a sort of how-to guide at some point? Looking at picking one up when I can get the funds.
 
Some Vinyl Flat reviews and comments:

BluJay -
I ordered a Vinyl Flat last week after a string of brand new records being warped lead to a "take my money" breakdown. I ordered both the Vinyl Flat itself, which was $120 and the groovy pouch, which was $80. The pouch lets you heat up the Vinyl Flat without having to use your oven and the overall lower and more consistent temperature of the pouch I felt was safer than my old oven in the house I rent The pouch heats up to between 130 and 140 degrees without the Vinyl Flat inside of it. Total price all-in was just under $200. It finally arrived a few days ago and I've now ran two records through it and am ready to give you folks some initial feedback. Some details: this thing weights a ton for its size, almost 11 pounds. It feels a bit delicate considering it's size and weight and is awkward handle and put into and pull out of the groovy pouch.

The first record I threw at it was Disc 2 of Golden Rules - Golden Ticket, the first copy I got from VMP was warped as was the second. I figured I would try the record on the unit and if it failed, VMP would be awesome and send me a replacement record anyway so it was the perfect test subject!
This thing is awesome. It works great and caused no physical damage to the record. You'll have to experiment with what length of time works best for you, especially because the internal temperature is supposed to vary from one groovy pouch to another. I also worked up to 3 hours being my new standard time to fix all warps as the 2 hour starting point suggestion that Vinyl Flat gives was not enough time in the unit to completely flatten it out.

If you've got forum cred, I'd be happy to put one record through the Vinyl Flat for you. No promises, guarantees or warranties! But that way you can get some tangible before and after results before you make the decision to take the plunge and buy your own. For me it has been and will continue to be a worthwhile investment. It'll be able to flatten out any warped LPs I get from VMP in the future so that my good friends won't have to eat the cost of replacements any more and the same goes for being able to buy from any indie record store without having to worry about what condition the record is gonna be in! When it comes to Amazon, however, I'll make those fuckers send me 10 new records until I get nice flat one. That way I can start saving up mailers for the inevitable RSD swarm next year!

LeeVing -
There isn't really much risk of damage with the vinyl flat.

I've left records in the pouch for days when I forgot about them. The temp it gets won't melt the vinyl or anything, it just makes it more pliable for the weight to take the warp out.

I usually do 12 hours as a default...usually the warp is totally gone and I don't waste my time going back and forth opening up the bag and checking it.
After 12 hours I just unplug it and wait another 12 or so and let it cool down while still in the bag. Cooling down under the weight is just as important as heating it up.

And for a FYI...

I've had both versions of the vinyl flat for about 4-5 years. I've flattened about 40-50 records in them. The "New" version is better in that it is wider and really helps the edge warps than the older model did.

Mcherry -
I like it. There is definitely a learning curve. Go buy some warped $1 bin finds and experiment. Not only do you have to figure out the heat of your own groovy pouch but there’s variation in length required for different vinyl weights, not to mention lower melting points for color vinyl. I’ve ruined a couple before figuring mine out. I honestly haven’t noticed audio changes but I’m only going by my own ears. Things sound good to me.

The spin clean is fine but I would definitely recommend a distilled water rinse step (using just distilled water in the spin clean) before putting them in the flat. I’d recommend washing a batch, new clean inners, then flatten as you go. It’ll take time and it’s ok to rewash them all beforehand as long as you let them be in the sleeves until it’s time to flatten (this way there’s less handling and less dust getting on them).

If the warp is subtle I’d just put a stack of heavy books on them for a few weeks.

For mixed color vinyl I cook it in the flat for an hour, let cool for a few hours, check and see if that worked and if not I increase the cook time by 15 min and do it again. Edit: I do this even it’s a solid non-black color.

Warped records, if they can’t be flattened to the platter with a clamp, will wear the grooves unevenly and will wear out your stylus faster.

Yes, solution wash, then rinse step. The cloth thing is an issue. I never had a problem with the cloths that came with the spin clean, though.

They say you can leave them in the flat at room temperature for a nonheated method but that would likely take more than a few weeks since the top isn’t as heavy as a stack of large books. It's heavy, just not that heavy.

As far as too long, that really does depend on how hot your pouch gets and the weight and color of the vinyl. My pouch gets pretty hot even on the low setting so I can’t have the heat on longer than 2-3 hrs max on heavyweight black vinyl (much less on color). On my previous pouch the heat on it was really low and I could leave the heat on all night with no ill effects on the record. I’ve said earlier, it’s a lot of trial and error; I did ruin a few before figuring mine out.

Snoops -
Okay, I took the plunge and purchased the Vinyl Flat and Pouch. I've been playing with it the last week. I've experimented with various vinyl weights and colored vinyl. There is a bit of trial and error on getting the right timing down, but this thing works perfect and has already paid for itself.

Two things I would recommend.
  1. Do not over-tighten the wingnut.
  2. Start at 90 mins and ramp up from there.
I had a stack of about 20 warps sitting around and I have gotten through about half. Some of which I have flat replacement copies of, so I did a A\B test with the ones I flattened. There is no difference at all in sound quality. If you are on the fence about buying this, just do it.
 
Alright vinyl fam, the results are in. This post is a little chunky, but I wanted it to be as complete as I could make it 🙂

This was a fun “experiment” that I’m hoping will help those on the fence and those wondering what the affects of a Vinyl Flat might be.

A little setup – I did a little testing with temps and times just to get a feel for how the VF and Pouch worked. After it was all said and done, I pulled my 1st “Real” LP to work on. I purchased Lump – Lump over a month ago, it had a nice dish warp on it and when contacting the retailer, they just told me to keep it and gave me a refund. What I ended up doing was trying the old fashion ways, didn’t do much. Then I put it on my VPI with it dished up and screwed it down and left it for a good long while. Oddly enough the dish got a little better, but I ended up with a weird edge warp……no idea.

So ya, we’re taking the plunge with a standard weight colored vinyl.

Today's process. Shoot a video of the album before the vinyl flat. I started with Track A from side A since this was an edge warp, figuring this would show results a bit better, not to mention the subtlety of this track lent itself well to picking out an “audible” change.

Here is a video of the before and after, please note that I had cleaned this a few days ago and just dropped it and played it for the PRE section. Once that was done, I did give it a good cleaning on the VPI before going in the pouch. (Post starts at 2:07)



So let’s get to the nitty-gritty. Did the Vinyl Flat do its job? Hell yes, as you can see the LP is flat as a pancake.

For those curious about the process/time:
  • Cleaned the LP
  • Pre-heated the pouch (My pouch on HI gets to 140o in the middle, meaning the seam where it would fold over and about 8o cooler at the open end). NOTE: Putting edge warps towards the seam is recommended.
  • Cooked for 1 Hour with a wall timer (Highly recommended)
  • Cooled in the pouch for about 1 ½, when I opened the pouch the VF was still a little warm, so I let it continue to cool outside the pouch until it was room temp.
Did the cooking process effect the sound and or grooves in the record? Again, I’ll state I couldn’t hear any difference…………. BUT, when comparing waves of both the Pre and Post (See GIF below), you can see some slight changes in the peaks and valleys. Now a few things to take into consideration. The pre wave wasn’t cleaned before playing, you’ll notice a few extra pops and clicks in the beginning of the video. So the small changes could be do to that. The changes, while visible on the wave, in my opinion, are too small to ever hear during playback. This unfortunately is going to be a User to User thing, I won't tell you "It's all OK", you'll need to make up your own mind if all this information calms any hesitations you might have.

Pre_Wave.gif

My conclusions:

I think the vinyl flat is well worth the investment if you're coming across more than a few albums that are warped. It will pay for itself quickly. There is probably always going to be a little experimenting needed depending on the weight of the vinyl, color and so forth. But keep track of your times and temps and you’ll be fine, keep in mind that you want to change the times, not the temp. always Keep your temp under 150o regardless of the LP, only adjust your time.

Lastly, the sound quality. Like I said, I can’t hear any difference and while there was some difference between wave files it was too minimal, in my opinion and with the possibility of it being “Cleaner” for the Post section, for me to say the Vinyl Flat will affect the sound quality of your albums.

A big thumbs up from me, glad I bought it and it takes one more aggravation out of the hobby. I hope this was helpful
 
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Believer101 said:
^ when its that bad wouldnt the music be tainted even when fixed?
Click to expand...
When I first listened to it, I didn't notice much but, you got a point there. I actually got a replacement copy but never did an A/B comparison. I'll do that this weekend.
 
AnthonyI said:
Hey all,

So I've offered up my help to those with warped albums and it seems a few more members have voiced that they would be willing to do the same. So here it is, the list of Vinyl Flat owners who would be happy to help. If you would like to be added to the list, please PM me.

List by forum name and location:
Process:
  • Contact the member providing the service by PM
  • Work out any details between yourselves
  • Post something about the final result (I think it's important to let others know how it all went)

To everyone, senders and "Flateners", if there are any guide lines we would like to implement please post them here for discussion. This is a work in progress, please keep in mind none of the people signing up to help HAVE to do this, its just one more thing that speaks volumes of the community here. We'll update this first post as needed. Thanks
:)


My first point of discussion would be shipping charges, I feel the owner of the warped item should pay for both sending and receiving the album, thoughts?

**Needles and Grooves and it's forum have no liability or affiliation with this service.
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I have a vinyl flat and would be more than willing to help out. And after I started typing this, I noticed that you said to PM you. :| Oops.

I'm in the DC metro area as well.
 
I learned over last weekends birthday activities that I have a local record shop that not only offers Ultrasonic cleaning, but they also do record flattening with the bag and everything. I may give it a shot soon, I just need to go through 1,000+ records to find the warpy ones.
 
@Thackeraye, I inadvertently left that L-Space record in the Vinyl Flat for 12 hours (!) because I forgot to turn it off when the timer went.

Flat as a pancake! No ill effects that I can tell, but I had some choice words when I came down this morning and realized it was still on the heat.
 
W
kvetcha said:
@Thackeraye, I inadvertently left that L-Space record in the Vinyl Flat for 12 hours (!) because I forgot to turn it off when the timer went.

Flat as a pancake! No ill effects that I can tell, but I had some choice words when I came down this morning and realized it was still on the heat.
Click to expand...

Oh dear! Glad it came out ok though, and to be fair, the Vinyl Flat had a fair amount of work to do.

What did you think of it? I’ve not given it enough listens to make a final call on it...
 
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