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Is inner groove distortion less prevalent with increased cost of the cartridge or are certain brands or models more desirable to negate this as much as possible. I am aware that there are a plethora of cartridge options just looking for some general guidance as I’m looking to start experimenting. My only experience listening is with my grado black.

Here's a brain dump for @displayname Regarding inner groove distortion, generally more advanced stylus profiles (Microline, Shibata, Gyger) give better performance because they more closely replicate the cutting stylus when the laquer is made. If you get lucky (and in my experience you usually will) the more advanced stylus will ride in a different place in the groove- a fresh unworn place- so you will get better sound. But if you aren't lucky, it'll ride in the worn area and it'll most likely sound worse.

Some people prefer to use inexpensive conical styli to play worn records and an advanced stylus for nice records. Conical styli tend to be larger though, and this presents a problem. As the stylus travels towards the label, the grooves get tighter and the groove velocity increases. The conical stylus riding in a tight groove results in something called "groove pinch". Think of trying to put 6 pounds of sugar in a 5 pound bag. It won't work. This is why (for the most part- the classic Denon DL-103 and 103R cartridges being obvious exceptions) conical styli are on bottom of the barrel cartridges.

The cartridge type makes a difference too. The stylus moves the cantilever which in turn creates voltage inside the cartridge body- a generator. The lower the moving mass of the generator, the less the cantilever has to work. While your stylus and cantilever are sending vibrations up to the generator in the cartridge, micro vibrations are also being sent from the cartridge back down the cantilever towards the stylus. Obviously this isn't desirable, but it's the way it is.

If you can reduce the moving mass of the generator, you'll reduce unwanted vibration. Moving magnet cartridges have the highest moving mass. Moving coil cartridges are next, and the lowest moving mass are moving iron designs. Moving iron designs are cool because the cantilever doesn't move anything inside the cartridge- the coils are fixed. A tiny bit of iron is affixed to the opposite end of the cantilever from the stylus and is precisely located in the center of four fixed coils. As the iron moves from the groove vibrations, it changes its location between the coils. It's not trying to track the groove and also move a magnet or a coil. The only moving mass is the cantilever itself. You'll get a more precise rendering of what's in the groove with a moving iron design, in my opinion.

Oddly enough, Joe Grado invented the moving coil cartridge. Grados however are moving iron, as are Nagaoka, Soundsmith (which they call fixed coil- same thing) and Goldring.
 
Any reason this is a bad idea?
Also, Accessories4Less has them in stock with free shipping. MARANTZ NR1609 Slim 7.2-Ch x 50 Watts A/V Receiver w/HEOS
 
I have one of these for my TV watching and surround sound needs and like it, but still have my turntable hooked up to my old school amp with an external phono and full range speakers. My wife 'loves' that we have two entire stereos, but the compact size of the Marantz helps ease things over.
Do you know if the 1609 has a 2.1 stereo mode even if you are not using it?
 
Thanks @displayname and @HiFi Guy for the info. If my Grado black hums on my plx 1000 would a nagaoaka hum as well, does this have to do with shielding of some sort? I had assumed that when people speak of cart changes positively effecting IGD it was a result of the stylus on the new cart not so much the cart itself.
 
Thanks @displayname and @HiFi Guy for the info. If my Grado black hums on my plx 1000 would a nagaoaka hum as well, does this have to do with shielding of some sort? I had assumed that when people speak of cart changes positively effecting IGD it was a result of the stylus on the new cart not so much the cart itself.

Grados are prone to hum on some turntables because they aren't sheilded. Joe Grado claimed that shielding changed the sound.

Another brand won't hum.
 
Thanks for the quick response @HiFi Guy, at this point I'm glad I didn't pony up for the 8mz stylus. Contemplating going a couple steps up so to speak and trying one of the AT carts with the microline stylus
 
Actually found some specs for my current receiver. I think I paid around 300-500 new for a complete HTiB system in maybe 2001.

I need someone to tell me the Marantz 1609 is going to be a night and day improvement over this.

 
Actually found some specs for my current receiver. I think I paid around 300-500 new for a complete HTiB system in maybe 2001.

I need someone to tell me the Marantz 1609 is going to be a night and day improvement over this.

I mean, that thing you posted is, uh, probably not good. If you've already replaced the speakers that came with that, which make the biggest difference in the sound, this would be your next step.
 
I mean, that thing you posted is, uh, probably not good. If you've already replaced the speakers that came with that, which make the biggest difference in the sound, this would be your next step.
Yeah, still running the sub it came with which isn't terrible. I really don't have a whole lot of complaints with this receiver but I am assuming I just don't know what I am missing, too. Apparently it does have a sub pre-out which opens up the possibility of moving to a powered sub first before biting off a new receiver but the 1609 is hitting all the right spots. I can swing it and a Elac 3010 for around $750 which would top out my budget entirely but leave me with only needing a phono stage at some point and stylus upgrade.
 
Have you fine folks seen this?

Saturnturntable-1-1.jpg


This new turntable is shaped like Saturn
 
Yeah, still running the sub it came with which isn't terrible. I really don't have a whole lot of complaints with this receiver but I am assuming I just don't know what I am missing, too. Apparently it does have a sub pre-out which opens up the possibility of moving to a powered sub first before biting off a new receiver but the 1609 is hitting all the right spots. I can swing it and a Elac 3010 for around $750 which would top out my budget entirely but leave me with only needing a phono stage at some point and stylus upgrade.
The 1609 has a phono stage built in. AFAIK it's fine, but it'll be better than the one built into most lower end turntables.
 
To think, I've put so much time isolating each piece of gear. Sometimes even isolating power supplies from their own units. And I could have just putting all the gear right on top of the actual record itself! 🙃

But I'm sure some minimalist will like the style.
 
To think, I've put so much time isolating each piece of gear. Sometimes even isolating power supplies from their own units. And I could have just putting all the gear right on top of the actual record itself! 🙃

But I'm sure some minimalist will like the style.

Hey! You leave minimalism alone! Clean lines and a lack of clutter makes everything better. It does look good but it’s a hard pass from me too 😂
 
The 1609 has a phono stage built in. AFAIK it's fine, but it'll be better than the one built into most lower end turntables.
Yeah, I'm using a NAD 3020PE for the phono stage at this time. I'd be interested to compare it with the Marantz but I think long term I'll go with something like a PHO-8.
 
planning in the future of moving my setup to a more midrange instead of semi prosumer

my current set up is

uturn orbit with acrylic platter and grado black cartridge.
schiit mani preamp
M-Audio AV32 powered speakers

i'm already planning to move to either a schiit magni or an amplifier for the power instead of the speakers because of doing a better amp... but i dunno what else to change
 
Here's a brain dump for @displayname Regarding inner groove distortion, generally more advanced stylus profiles (Microline, Shibata, Gyger) give better performance because they more closely replicate the cutting stylus when the laquer is made. If you get lucky (and in my experience you usually will) the more advanced stylus will ride in a different place in the groove- a fresh unworn place- so you will get better sound. But if you aren't lucky, it'll ride in the worn area and it'll most likely sound worse.

Some people prefer to use inexpensive conical styli to play worn records and an advanced stylus for nice records. Conical styli tend to be larger though, and this presents a problem. As the stylus travels towards the label, the grooves get tighter and the groove velocity increases. The conical stylus riding in a tight groove results in something called "groove pinch". Think of trying to put 6 pounds of sugar in a 5 pound bag. It won't work. This is why (for the most part- the classic Denon DL-103 and 103R cartridges being obvious exceptions) conical styli are on bottom of the barrel cartridges.

The cartridge type makes a difference too. The stylus moves the cantilever which in turn creates voltage inside the cartridge body- a generator. The lower the moving mass of the generator, the less the cantilever has to work. While your stylus and cantilever are sending vibrations up to the generator in the cartridge, micro vibrations are also being sent from the cartridge back down the cantilever towards the stylus. Obviously this isn't desirable, but it's the way it is.

If you can reduce the moving mass of the generator, you'll reduce unwanted vibration. Moving magnet cartridges have the highest moving mass. Moving coil cartridges are next, and the lowest moving mass are moving iron designs. Moving iron designs are cool because the cantilever doesn't move anything inside the cartridge- the coils are fixed. A tiny bit of iron is affixed to the opposite end of the cantilever from the stylus and is precisely located in the center of four fixed coils. As the iron moves from the groove vibrations, it changes its location between the coils. It's not trying to track the groove and also move a magnet or a coil. The only moving mass is the cantilever itself. You'll get a more precise rendering of what's in the groove with a moving iron design, in my opinion.

Oddly enough, Joe Grado invented the moving coil cartridge. Grados however are moving iron, as are Nagaoka, Soundsmith (which they call fixed coil- same thing) and Goldring.
Decided to order the AT VM95ML
 
planning in the future of moving my setup to a more midrange instead of semi prosumer

my current set up is

uturn orbit with acrylic platter and grado black cartridge.
schiit mani preamp
M-Audio AV32 powered speakers

i'm already planning to move to either a schiit magni or an amplifier for the power instead of the speakers because of doing a better amp... but i dunno what else to change
I think the typical advice is that the biggest bang for the buck improvements to most systems can be found by upgrading the speakers. Because your speakers are powered, you'd have to do two things at once; new speakers AND a new amp, because your powered speakers wouldn't work with an amp.
 
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