Oh, and I'm comfortable in big or small groups for the book.
Black Lives Matter
- Thread starter gouis
- Start date
Dead C
Well-Known Member
There's a lot to unpack here and I've been having a lot of conversations about this, so I might get a little exhausted. I apologize ahead of time. I'm going to try to get through some of this, though. I do have a view on everything you've just said.
I interviewed a painter once that was very ethnically focused with her art. She had a pride that I never did and it was something amazing to take in, because where her culture expanded her with her Mexican identity, my ethnicity was always something that I was taught limited me, or othered me. I had to prove that I was MORE beyond my appearance, not that my culture and appearance added to my identity. It only stole from it. I needed to find a way to connect to that more and I still do. Being mixed race has given me hardcore imposter syndrome throughout my life. It wasn't until recent years that I began to view being mixed race as an experience all it's own. It's an incredibly important issue to discuss, but I can get more into that later, because, otherwise, this comment will never end. But, the point is that, when your culture excludes you in a society, you are encouraged to abandon it. If you don't, it will be beaten out of you in one way or another.
You have to be the Huxtables to be accepted. You have to literally show people, "Hey. They're just like us" by adapting to become as much like them as possible. Those are the "good ones" the people who assimilate to you. A lot of white people will view a black or brown person in a dress shirt or at their place of business as evidence of "good" examples of minorities. They aren't gang members. To them, that's becoming open minded and woke. "I know they aren't all bad, because Jamal or Jorge at work are just like us." And by "like us" that's not about human, but assimilated. They don't wear sagging pants and they don't have khakis and hair nets. The inherent issue there is that they are still able to create those two compartments and divide things in a way where Looks Like Me = GOOD and Doesn't Look Like Me = BAD. They can't look at those other examples and simply not assume anything. They can't see that humanity. Another level to that is the fear/shame/risk of selling yourself and your own community out to where you risk losing that space with it/them, as well. That's where code switching comes in.
This is a bit of an aside, but I just watched this TED TALK by Lee Mun Wah, the director who made The Color Of Fear and he speaks about racism and how it has affected his life. He began to hide his food and other aspects that represented his culture as a kid, because it became evident that it was an obstacle. It's worth adding to the pile of materials that we already have going on in here. It's not my main point here, but there's a lot here and it's worth checking out at some point, so I'm just going to post it. The next part after this video is more relevant to what I'm really trying to get at. I guess this is too, but... I don't know. The next part was my intention.
One thing addressed in these color of fear videos is the idea of pillaging other cultures for artifacts. It's about taking for yourselves; not respecting the source, but often inspecting it like an autopsy. I just got into that over in the VMP exclusives thread. There is zero acknowledgment of hip hop and where it came from, how it was anti-violence and about people being brought together. These days, a lot of people -- some, even around here, it seems -- just want to listen to a beat. The pain that birthed that music doesn't matter. They don't want to hear it, unless there's a beat under it.
Here's a fascinating and relevant example of that for me that directly relates to the idea of John Wayne. One Be Lo made this post a little while back about how someone tried to mix John Wayne with his music
Lo seemed to see some validity in what I interpreted from it, because he responded to my comment with KABOOM!!! You could scroll through to find it on IG, but here's what I said
"To me, this just sounds like the internet age, straight up. The mentality itself isn't new, just the format and platforms. This dude felt like he made something and he can't take criticism. Someone he knows probably even told him it was dope. The act of using a program to put sound on video was the extent of the "art," like taking a painting & photoshopping impact font on it. It's their bad suburban graffitti.
I've asked people to credit work that wasn't theirs before and they are willing to battle like crazy to avoid doing that. They want likes. They want acknowledgement & are perfectly content getting it unwarrantedly from other people's work. If there's one thing people will defend with everything they have it's their identity and ideas of themselves. If they haven't cultivated or discovered a real personality or identity, they hold onto what they believe they do have, even when that's the actual barrier holding them back. They don't want that jostled.
I mean, if he's claiming there's no greater meaning or thought to what he did than sticking 2 things together, the biggest thing he did was block out and avoid introspection. He's chasing flashes of color. He even told you that, to him, the song is the beat. The rhythm. The film is just the action. The violence. He's not questioning where his visceral reactions come from. The source doesn't matter to him. The why is insignificant. You aren't into it, because that film and imagery is racist. This cat doesn't want to explore why he reacts positively to it, but rejects why you react less than positively to it. Taking your work like that is a form of speaking for you & I'd assume that messaging you is a way to ask if he was on point with it. He didn't like the answer.
I don't know man, but this is kind of fascinating & I really appreciate you sharing it. We love you for your craft and lyricism and integrity. This dude hears you like a top 40 jam. You even inject your IG with more depth & dimension when you address stuff like this. Plus that verse is bananas. As for Russia & freedom of speech, I'd wager that Pussy Riot would disagree with that dude."
So... basically, it's about identity. It's about how we want to be seen, or how much humanity we might be willing to afford those who we take from and how much responsibility we may want to hold or recognize while doing that.
I seriously have about 30 different things I can get into here, but I want to offer one exercise that I've "created" and done with my son, lately. He is essentially white and needs to learn some hard truths because of that -- or, mostly, because of the fact that he looks like a white male, so society will let him benefit from those hard truths while ignoring them.
it's in the comment below
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Dead C
Well-Known Member
...
For anyone that's open to entertaining this, I'd like to try something, and I ask that you to be completely honest with yourself in doing this. I'm going to type a word and I'd like you to ask yourself what you visualize when you read/hear it; almost, as if you expected that you'd have to draw it.
PERSON
Child
Boy
Woman
Girl
Man
So... the interesting thing here is that, when I hear "boy," I actually imagine a little white boy. Red cap and frog in the pocket style. But, I was never a little white boy, myself. So, the fact that I even see that in my own mind is something to examine. Why is that? Why is a little girl white with blond pigtails. My son saw the same thing and he told me that he doesn't even know anyone that looks like that. Why is a "person" a white man. A white man is the default HUMAN. Anything after that, you have to specify. Everything you add on to it to specify, as far as altering the gender or race -- or even age, really -- makes it less. Strips a little humanity away. You even have to draw a skirt on the stickman to make it female. I already automatically assume that everybody on this forum is white until I see an indicator that they aren't. Even worse, is a lot of people who aren't, might prefer you to believe we are, because our opinions would be more valued. Those assumption are thrown at the women, too. Why else would someone be on here collecting records and knowing all about music and shit?
So, outside of the context of this conversation, if you heard that a policeman killed a child, I suspect that most of us would immediately imagine that young white boy and be horrified. If we heard that a policeman slammed a little girl to the ground, or an 11 year old girl to the ground, we would see that girl in the pigtails and be mortified. That action is WRONG. SO, how come when we actually find out that it's Tamir Rice or a black girl, nobody seems to give a shit? The black girls pigtails actually add to her racial identity and disgust people even more. Why do they begin to find excuses for why it must have happened? Or how this black girl in her desk or at a park deserved it, or talked back? Then people claim that others are pulling the race card or that "it's always about race." But racism doesn't work that way. It's not about how we see ourselves, it's always about how others see us. I still see a child being murdered. EVERY TIME. So, when others aren't responding proportionally or appropriately by seeing a child being manhandled or slaughtered, the question has to be why? What's changed? What's the difference? Why don't you see them as children or even as people? The one defining difference is race.
Racism actually works backwards than the way that a lot of people present it. We don't know that there is anything wrong with us until someone else tells us that. We are told that we are ugly or fat or less. It doesn't matter why. So this are things coming from the outside and why so many work so hard to present themselves in a way they want to be seen for others. We can't see us. I've been in situations where I've dealt with things and then looked at my arm and my skin and thought, "Oh yeah! Totally forgot." I'm not walking around brown, I'm walking around human. I'm just always reminded.
Now here's another twist. My son saw all of the same things I did in the exercise, except he saw a black child. Then he admitted he first saw a white boy for a split second and it switched. That was the one that wasn't static. But he also watches the show Captain Underpants where the two main characters are a pair of friends where one is black and one is white. They are equal in every way. THere's even a hero they like named Viper Chai who is black and does martial arts. THIS is why representation is important. We are dealing with these Dick and Jane images of "BOY" "GIRL" "MAN" "WOMAN" The white man on the door of our restrooms that not only separates race, but gender. The white crossing figure. We're programmed this way. It's a flashcard with a dad in a tie.
A white man is human. They can be anything. You will be judged on your interests and personality. You can be a hippie or a business man. A police officer or a burglar in a striped longsleeve and lone ranger mask. You can be whatever the fuck you want. An astronaut or a magician. There are many types of white person. Women are much more limited in what people will allow themselves to believe they can achieve.
What can a brown or black person be? Black people invented rock music, but if they play it today it's a novelty. You literally have to refer to yourself as Afro Punk or as part of the "black weirdo" movement, if you're like my friend who is a black woman that likes groups like H09909 or The Prodigy, along with Ghostface and Aesop Rock (oops! WHITE RAPPER!). She's not down with that bullshit. She's not down with those tags. We both think its bullshit. We can't simply have dimension and without that, we aren't afforded humanity. And without being viewed as a full human, it's a lot easier to rationalize our murders, whether that refers to indigenous people, the murder of black and brown people at the hands of the police, or if we're considering regime change wars overseas. We drop bombs on children constantly. And that's why white feminism is also dangerous. There's no intersectionality and that is also incredibly oppressive, but... that is also another post.
For anyone that's open to entertaining this, I'd like to try something, and I ask that you to be completely honest with yourself in doing this. I'm going to type a word and I'd like you to ask yourself what you visualize when you read/hear it; almost, as if you expected that you'd have to draw it.
PERSON
Child
Boy
Woman
Girl
Man
So... the interesting thing here is that, when I hear "boy," I actually imagine a little white boy. Red cap and frog in the pocket style. But, I was never a little white boy, myself. So, the fact that I even see that in my own mind is something to examine. Why is that? Why is a little girl white with blond pigtails. My son saw the same thing and he told me that he doesn't even know anyone that looks like that. Why is a "person" a white man. A white man is the default HUMAN. Anything after that, you have to specify. Everything you add on to it to specify, as far as altering the gender or race -- or even age, really -- makes it less. Strips a little humanity away. You even have to draw a skirt on the stickman to make it female. I already automatically assume that everybody on this forum is white until I see an indicator that they aren't. Even worse, is a lot of people who aren't, might prefer you to believe we are, because our opinions would be more valued. Those assumption are thrown at the women, too. Why else would someone be on here collecting records and knowing all about music and shit?
So, outside of the context of this conversation, if you heard that a policeman killed a child, I suspect that most of us would immediately imagine that young white boy and be horrified. If we heard that a policeman slammed a little girl to the ground, or an 11 year old girl to the ground, we would see that girl in the pigtails and be mortified. That action is WRONG. SO, how come when we actually find out that it's Tamir Rice or a black girl, nobody seems to give a shit? The black girls pigtails actually add to her racial identity and disgust people even more. Why do they begin to find excuses for why it must have happened? Or how this black girl in her desk or at a park deserved it, or talked back? Then people claim that others are pulling the race card or that "it's always about race." But racism doesn't work that way. It's not about how we see ourselves, it's always about how others see us. I still see a child being murdered. EVERY TIME. So, when others aren't responding proportionally or appropriately by seeing a child being manhandled or slaughtered, the question has to be why? What's changed? What's the difference? Why don't you see them as children or even as people? The one defining difference is race.
Racism actually works backwards than the way that a lot of people present it. We don't know that there is anything wrong with us until someone else tells us that. We are told that we are ugly or fat or less. It doesn't matter why. So this are things coming from the outside and why so many work so hard to present themselves in a way they want to be seen for others. We can't see us. I've been in situations where I've dealt with things and then looked at my arm and my skin and thought, "Oh yeah! Totally forgot." I'm not walking around brown, I'm walking around human. I'm just always reminded.
Now here's another twist. My son saw all of the same things I did in the exercise, except he saw a black child. Then he admitted he first saw a white boy for a split second and it switched. That was the one that wasn't static. But he also watches the show Captain Underpants where the two main characters are a pair of friends where one is black and one is white. They are equal in every way. THere's even a hero they like named Viper Chai who is black and does martial arts. THIS is why representation is important. We are dealing with these Dick and Jane images of "BOY" "GIRL" "MAN" "WOMAN" The white man on the door of our restrooms that not only separates race, but gender. The white crossing figure. We're programmed this way. It's a flashcard with a dad in a tie.
A white man is human. They can be anything. You will be judged on your interests and personality. You can be a hippie or a business man. A police officer or a burglar in a striped longsleeve and lone ranger mask. You can be whatever the fuck you want. An astronaut or a magician. There are many types of white person. Women are much more limited in what people will allow themselves to believe they can achieve.
What can a brown or black person be? Black people invented rock music, but if they play it today it's a novelty. You literally have to refer to yourself as Afro Punk or as part of the "black weirdo" movement, if you're like my friend who is a black woman that likes groups like H09909 or The Prodigy, along with Ghostface and Aesop Rock (oops! WHITE RAPPER!). She's not down with that bullshit. She's not down with those tags. We both think its bullshit. We can't simply have dimension and without that, we aren't afforded humanity. And without being viewed as a full human, it's a lot easier to rationalize our murders, whether that refers to indigenous people, the murder of black and brown people at the hands of the police, or if we're considering regime change wars overseas. We drop bombs on children constantly. And that's why white feminism is also dangerous. There's no intersectionality and that is also incredibly oppressive, but... that is also another post.
This is one of the best, most well stated posts I've read in awhile. Thank you for saying all of this and giving your perspective. As a mixed race person, I never really analyzed my inherent ability to adapt quickly from one culture to the other and why it was necessary growing up.
@Dead C - thanks for sharing. I'm going to dive into those posts tomorrow when my brain is more ready.
Everyone interested in Me and White Supremacy, get yourself ready to complete Day 1 on Monday. I think there is some pre-work and introduction material - so do that please between now and Monday.
I'll start a DM soon. But if people have thoughts/questions or whatever before hand, please don't wait for me.
Everyone interested in Me and White Supremacy, get yourself ready to complete Day 1 on Monday. I think there is some pre-work and introduction material - so do that please between now and Monday.
I'll start a DM soon. But if people have thoughts/questions or whatever before hand, please don't wait for me.
Dead C
Well-Known Member
My friend Dave lives in Japan. His wife is Japanese. When they moved back there, people began referring to his son as "half." They'll say it right to him. They tell him he's "half."
It's pretty heartbreaking, but I realized that I had a voice and perspective that could help. Being mixed, you can sometimes feel like an imposter on both sides and question if you have any right to speak as/for either. I realized that I did have a unique experience and perspective in that way.
So, what I encouraged him to do is to make sure his son knew that he wasn't "half" anything, but rather 2 whole things.
I also sent him this. This might resonate with you.
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Happy to be a part of this thread. Anybody know of any black owned record shops with an online web store? Would love to do my part. Also making it a challenge for myself to only buy records that support black artists until the end of the year with the exception of record clubs that I’m in the middle of subscriptions with. Trying to find ways I can easily and consciously distribute my money to black communities around the states while doing the hard work of educating myself more.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
Thank you dude! Followed both of them.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
Just finished watching 13th. It's something people should watch even those of us who are familiar with the history. I didn't have the energy to get through it all and still be able to control my emotions particularly as Philando Castile's murder came across the screen.
What I didn't already know about was ALEC and the Corporations and Republican representatives who drive the formation of criminal legislation. It was good to be able to put a name to the face in this case.
I felt like it was a little soft on the Democratic role in criminalizing black and brown communities, but they did focus in on Clinton to tell the story of the 90's and set-up the present.
I also wish there was some focus on the militarization of police post 9/11 under the guise of foreign terror threats... that's likely where cities like Ferguson, MO got there sound cannon (LRAD) funding to put down civil unrest.
What I didn't already know about was ALEC and the Corporations and Republican representatives who drive the formation of criminal legislation. It was good to be able to put a name to the face in this case.
I felt like it was a little soft on the Democratic role in criminalizing black and brown communities, but they did focus in on Clinton to tell the story of the 90's and set-up the present.
I also wish there was some focus on the militarization of police post 9/11 under the guise of foreign terror threats... that's likely where cities like Ferguson, MO got there sound cannon (LRAD) funding to put down civil unrest.
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I can't even believe it. I work with a guy that is POSITIVE that George Floyd wasn't murdered, that they were all crisis actors and it was all set up to instigate riots to make the country unstable and crash the economy even more, all to take down Trump in November.
He came in this morning talking to anyone that would listen. I kept overhearing "deep state" "it doesn't add up" and "do your research"
I decided not to engage. I can't even argue this morning.
At this point I have to assume he's a flat-earther as well.
He came in this morning talking to anyone that would listen. I kept overhearing "deep state" "it doesn't add up" and "do your research"
I decided not to engage. I can't even argue this morning.
At this point I have to assume he's a flat-earther as well.
Everyone’s struggling right now. You’re good.
Just wanted to chime in on the group set up. I guess I'm torn on it, so this may be a nothing contribution. I get the reasoning behind smaller groups, but at the same time I don't want to miss out on what anyone may have to contribute to the conversation. Having done this already do you have an opinion on it?@Dead C - thanks for sharing. I'm going to dive into those posts tomorrow when my brain is more ready.
Everyone interested in Me and White Supremacy, get yourself ready to complete Day 1 on Monday. I think there is some pre-work and introduction material - so do that please between now and Monday.
I'll start a DM soon. But if people have thoughts/questions or whatever before hand, please don't wait for me.
Bennnnn
Well-Known Member
I know maybe recommending everyone watch another thing may not be the best thing right now, but I thought I’d share this anyway. A couple of years ago Wyatt Cenac’s tv show Problem Areas debuted on HBO. For the entire first season, he focused on Policing. I remember really loving how he constructed his show and how in depth it gets on this topic. He did the same thing with season two, which focused on Education. Then it was cancelled. Problem Areas was a great show I felt nobody paid attention to, but now HBO has put every single episode up on YouTube for free. Maybe now people will watch and listen. Yes it’s a “political comedy” show, but it sets itself apart by putting the issues at hand first, and then really diving deep in on them. I miss it. Anyway, I recommend watching all of it, but for this time, season one is strikingly relevant. Here’s the first episode:
I keep saying how intense the work is. That is the part I want people to understand. There were several times that I didn't like myself. And several times when I cried. But that was good for me - it made my resolve stronger to better myself. There were particular Days that brought up things in me that I myself would not want to discuss with a large group but instead just a single person. We are all different, we all handle stress and emotion differently. I do not say this to dissuade anyone from embarking on this journey. I think it is so incredibly important that we do it, no matter how much it can suck while in it.
But I say it because I know people might have discomfort talking about that in a larger group.
I'll start the DM. But if people get to a Day that is really tough for them and they need to work it out in a smaller setting, please, reach out to someone you feel comfortable working through it with. (And that person should NOT be a black person. DO NOT ask black people to take on your emotional labor). Or, if you are comfortable bringing it to the large group, that's what we are here for!
My DMs are open to anyone. I definitely do not have all the answers, but I am open to learning and educating myself along with any one of you.
I also think that the larger group DM will be a good place to keep everyone accountable. And also as a pulse check. There were 2 weekends that my friend and I took time off from the exercise. We checked in with each other and recognized that the week's work was really deep and we wanted to sit with it and review the week instead of diving into another Day right away. So, the larger group DM can be for that kind of check in and decision too.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
It’s good to unload on people that have no actual control over your life.
MikeH
Well-Known Member
Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, City Officials Cutting $100 Million-$150 Million From LAPD Budget, Funds To Be Reinvested In Communities Of Color
As he began to speak about reforming the LAPD during his Wednesday evening press conference, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti called this an “urgent moment” for the city, “an infle…
deadline.com
Hope more cities follow this lead. It's a small start but it's something hopefully.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
My city of 212 thousand people is going through something strange. We have the National Guard in town. We are split roughly 50/50 between the two parties.
Rumors started that there was going to be a 800 person protest today in the center of the city. The right thinks it’s antifa and the left things it’s white nationalists. I guarantee you that we have more white nationalists in our area then antifa. The right is also hyper sensitive to looting and have made the typical threats.
the city council had an emergency meeting last night announce a possible 4pm curfew. They voted to match it to the 6pm la county curfew. Hopefully nothing to bad goes down today. We already had a school shooting this year.
Rumors started that there was going to be a 800 person protest today in the center of the city. The right thinks it’s antifa and the left things it’s white nationalists. I guarantee you that we have more white nationalists in our area then antifa. The right is also hyper sensitive to looting and have made the typical threats.
the city council had an emergency meeting last night announce a possible 4pm curfew. They voted to match it to the 6pm la county curfew. Hopefully nothing to bad goes down today. We already had a school shooting this year.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, City Officials Cutting $100 Million-$150 Million From LAPD Budget, Funds To Be Reinvested In Communities Of Color
As he began to speak about reforming the LAPD during his Wednesday evening press conference, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti called this an “urgent moment” for the city, “an infle…
Hope more cities follow this lead. It's a small start but it's something hopefully.
They marched on his house the other day for the sole purpose of getting him to revise the budget. The police budget gets 3x the funding of all the rest of city structures.