It shouldn't have to be said, but apparently it does.
Black Lives Matter
- Thread starter gouis
- Start date
scotthilk
Well-Known Member
Came here to say that Black Lives Matter.
Fully fuck the police forever and ever amen. In the US, police departments grew out of slave patrols and union busting, and the same analysis and reformation recommendations have been made regularly since 1929 to no avail. It's time to abolish the police.
But those terrible, dangerous people you describe are also police, and they protect each other from accountability. What is it, 40% of police households self-report spousal abuse? Police arrest trafficked children for prostitution. Police don't protect people, they protect capital. And they barely solve half of murders, let alone other crimes, yet we continue to increase police budgets and let their unions dictate accountability.
The call to abolish police isn't a call to end societal protection and accountability, but to replace policing with non-racist systems that actually work.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
I know this is a position you hold/have held; what are those systems? More importantly, how do we prevent the insular culture of self-preservation from growing within them? Does it come down to ending the state's monopoly on force?
Not arguing, I just genuinely haven't done the reading on the subject of alternative proposals.
Edit: to that end, if you have any recommended reading, let me know.
I have so much recommended reading! I am bathing my kid and stuff, but I'll drop some titles a little later.
But consider how little policing is done in white neighborhoods now. I have lived my whole life functionally unpoliced. I'm guessing you have too. Access, education, healthcare, those are things that prevent "crime."
Indy - I saw a post that laid out exactly what the NAACP is requesting. Let me see if I can find it again. But it was bullet points and very clear.
And honestly, extremely reasonable and a very restrained list.
But as for more literature than that, GnG looks like she's got you! And I'm excited for that list too.
I obviously don’t want to detract from the current situation but the idea of a functioning police force is laughable and it’s not just in America. They exist to protect the wealth and lifestyle and status quo of the privileged and power involved in being a Police officer attracts certain types of people.
An Garda Soichana (our police force) were complicit with covering up clerical child abuse and in enabling the mass shaming and institutionalisation of women by the church into situations of horrific abuse.
The police in England allowed themselves to be turned into a militia to fight a war against striking workers, covered up the death of a black teenager by white supremacists, had an investigation where they found themselves institutionally racist and yet has anything really changed since? Nope. Not to mention brutally gunning down a Brazilian teenager running for a train because they thought he looked like an Islamic terrorist.
Yeah, fuck all the police all the time everywhere.
So I hear this all time time, but I feel like you're not actually saying "eliminate any police department". Because every civilized country in the world has a police department. Unless you think we can create a country never seen before.
My understanding is that the idea should be "break down the current police structure, and rebuild it as something that serves the community rather than "polices" it.".
My issue is kind of the words here as "abolish the police" is kind of a non starter for the vast majority of the country. Yes we have to break something in order to rebuild it, but these issues are complex and it comes across as a bit glib.
I'm stupid and posted this without having read that you said "The call to abolish police isn't a call to end societal protection and accountability, but to replace policing with non-racist systems that actually work.".
My point stands that the phrasing is being misconceived and it's kind of leading to further polarization
jaycee
Well-Known Member
This may be a bit too abstract or philosophical for this discussion, but it's just where my head is at.
Who do the police protect and serve? What do the police protect and serve? and Why do they have to protect and serve those things? Why do we have police at all?
We assume that we will do each other harm. We assume people will harm themselves. We assume that people will harm each others property, and our society accepts that those activities are not moral and/or contradict our values... but what is the unseen, unheard, yet perceived threat?
Conveniently I'll ignore the harm to another human and focus on the self harm and property harm issues because if we are looking at the who, what, when, where, and why of policing the majority of their operations are focused there. If you accept that premise then again we have to ask ourselves Why? Why is the focus of police on petty drug violations and property crime threats? What drives that approach? and Why does every crime statistic point to inequitable enforcement of those rules?
Institutions, whether they be political boundaries, economic policy, power structure concepts, or agencies, drive and determine inequality. In the case of the U.S., our institutions were founded upon the oppression of black bodies. It's both convenient and necessary to promote that inequity in order for the institution to maintain itself. Police are hired, fired, and paid by the institution.
On their vehicles it says "to protect and serve," and I think it's fair to assume that most white people who benefit most from the status quo would answer the people if you asked them Who? and if you asked them What? they would likely answer our property and our lives, and if you asked them Why? they would answer because there are people out there who want to do us harm, and if you asked them to picture and describe the people who want to harm them look like? they would most likely be thinking of black faces and black bodies... if they were being honest with themselves.
The propagation of that fear of blackness lies with the institution, is promoted by the police and other institution serving entities, and is accepted by the individual (willfully or not)... that positive feedback loop is one of the cycles that must be broken if we want to pursue a more equitable society. if we want an equitable globe.
If we were to begin to break that cycle, if people were served and not the institution, those cases that are about harm to another human could be more effectively addressed.
We certainly don't need the police as they have been manifested by our society at present. If we need an entity to serve and protect people it needs to be something different and it needs to be specific to and about our communities, not our institutions.
What are we waiting for?
Who do the police protect and serve? What do the police protect and serve? and Why do they have to protect and serve those things? Why do we have police at all?
We assume that we will do each other harm. We assume people will harm themselves. We assume that people will harm each others property, and our society accepts that those activities are not moral and/or contradict our values... but what is the unseen, unheard, yet perceived threat?
Conveniently I'll ignore the harm to another human and focus on the self harm and property harm issues because if we are looking at the who, what, when, where, and why of policing the majority of their operations are focused there. If you accept that premise then again we have to ask ourselves Why? Why is the focus of police on petty drug violations and property crime threats? What drives that approach? and Why does every crime statistic point to inequitable enforcement of those rules?
Institutions, whether they be political boundaries, economic policy, power structure concepts, or agencies, drive and determine inequality. In the case of the U.S., our institutions were founded upon the oppression of black bodies. It's both convenient and necessary to promote that inequity in order for the institution to maintain itself. Police are hired, fired, and paid by the institution.
On their vehicles it says "to protect and serve," and I think it's fair to assume that most white people who benefit most from the status quo would answer the people if you asked them Who? and if you asked them What? they would likely answer our property and our lives, and if you asked them Why? they would answer because there are people out there who want to do us harm, and if you asked them to picture and describe the people who want to harm them look like? they would most likely be thinking of black faces and black bodies... if they were being honest with themselves.
The propagation of that fear of blackness lies with the institution, is promoted by the police and other institution serving entities, and is accepted by the individual (willfully or not)... that positive feedback loop is one of the cycles that must be broken if we want to pursue a more equitable society. if we want an equitable globe.
If we were to begin to break that cycle, if people were served and not the institution, those cases that are about harm to another human could be more effectively addressed.
We certainly don't need the police as they have been manifested by our society at present. If we need an entity to serve and protect people it needs to be something different and it needs to be specific to and about our communities, not our institutions.
What are we waiting for?
jaycee
Well-Known Member
None of this is a surprise or useful, but it is evidence of the cult, the entrenchment of the cults beliefs, and what needs to be eliminated. Read the letter posted by the former Minneapolis police chief. Police officers (as a group) vote for this man as their leadership, as their representative.
www.citypages.com
City Pages
www.citypages.com
AnthonyI
Well-Known Member
The Police, the good ones, and they are out there, are put in a tough spot, but damn, so many of them are thick as bricks and just don't see what they're doing as wrong in any way. Saw this today and freakin' cheered when this guy turned the tables on these officers.........the problem, if he was just a "regular" POC, what would have happened. This country has sooo many problems, some new some old, but we're at a turning point here, I can't help but feel it coming, just don't know how it's going to end up.
Enjoy!
Enjoy!
sahomerrocks
Well-Known Member
This is blocks from where I live. People were reporting this group hours ago and were blown off by the police. They just beat up the reporter minutes ago if you follow the thread.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
Reveal investigation into police, social media, and hate groups
www.revealnews.org
Inside hate groups on Facebook, police officers trade racist memes, conspiracy theories and Islamophobia - Reveal
Officers in law enforcement agencies across the country have joined private hate groups on Facebook, participating in the spread of extremism.
www.revealnews.org
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Dirtbag Auntie
Well-Known Member
Can we please pin or amplify this list of bail funds?
Also I can help come up with a list of resources for anti-racism work in the morning.
List of Bail Funds for Protestors across the Country
A collection of community resources for protestors around the country.
bailfunds.github.io
Also I can help come up with a list of resources for anti-racism work in the morning.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
Selaws
Well-Known Member
Im just quoting your post here @Joe Mac as you specifically talk about police here in the UK.
I honestly have mixed feelings here. Mine and my girlfriend's close friend is a Police Detective here in the UK. We have both known her for a good chunk of our lives (my girlfriend grew up with her at school etc) and she is the nicest person there possible could be. She works in quite a specialist area (which I won't state for obvious reasons) and sympathy and compassion is literally the backbone of her job, she just couldn't do it without it. A relative of hers has the hardest job I can imagine, which is a Police Detective specialising in child abductions (you can imagine the horrors they have seen). When I see people here saying fuck the WHOLE police, they are all horrible (or words to that effect) it really hits me as there will be Police officers out there that are the nicest and most honourable people. If the 2 officers I mentioned didn't exist, the quality of life for hundreds of people they have directly helped would be awful, with more deaths and violence happening to them as a result.
At the same time the stuff that is going on in America is obviously awful, and I will admit to not being clued up on the American policing system, but I can only assume the scenario is the same over there, that there are 'good' police amongst the bad. Now obviously if that 'good' police sees injustice or crime committed by a 'bad' police offer but doesn't report it, then they are complicit as well.