TrainFan73
Frothy
I don't understand what you are trying to say here?
The Grammy Awards Thread
- Thread starter Fleetwood-Matt
- Start date
Tortured Diaper Baby Dept
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if your question is rhetorical but in the case it is not...
I often read people - here and other places - scrutinizing male (especially pop) artists but talking about them in a vacuum and on their own merits. But, I swear, when I start reading people discussing female artists, I know it's inevitable for comparisons to begin with other artists rather than likewise discuss them wholly by their own merits. Not really an indictment and not whatsoever scientific. Just an anecdotal observation.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
I genuinely thought that was gonna be Beyoncé this year. It seemed inevitable, I should have known better than to expect for the music industry to do the right thing.
For the record, I am not even some giant Beyoncé stan personally but I respect when arguable the most popular artist in music today makes an album that’s innovative. No one in popular music is making an album of house music in 2022 she was leading the way. It’s comparable to Daft Punk making a modern disco album in 2013, but unlike Renaissance, RAM was rewarded with AOTY.
TrainFan73
Frothy
Okay, this makes sense. Your original post read like it's "refreshing to see male artists compared to male artists because female artists are compared to female artists." Which was very confusing without the context.
TrainFan73
Frothy
This is what drives me insane about the Beyonce album. "It's so innovative"... she made a House music album in 2022. If it was 1972, I might agree with you. Hell, if it was 1992, I might agree with you...
Tortured Diaper Baby Dept
Well-Known Member
There's always the next album. I hear Renaissance Act II is going to be a skiffle album.
whatwhatsaywhat
Well-Known Member
i for one am thrilled that beyonce got shot out of the non-genre categories again - honestly, it's intrinsic to her narrative...that and playing for $25m for dubai blood money...
that harry styles album is not to my tastes, but i thought for the most part the performances this year were really strong, but his voice sounded really weak in the live setting
thought the 50 years of hip-hop tribute at the grammys was excellent; bbbut where was their own winner, macklemore? poor white people, always being left out of tributes...
and the important thing is that now that they've allocated 10 mins to that glorious genre's first 50 years they can go back to not giving any of its music any awards outside of the genre-based categories, as is tradition
that harry styles album is not to my tastes, but i thought for the most part the performances this year were really strong, but his voice sounded really weak in the live setting
thought the 50 years of hip-hop tribute at the grammys was excellent; bbbut where was their own winner, macklemore? poor white people, always being left out of tributes...
and the important thing is that now that they've allocated 10 mins to that glorious genre's first 50 years they can go back to not giving any of its music any awards outside of the genre-based categories, as is tradition
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
When you see interviewers and album reviewers and other talking heads pushing these comps it’s not because Billy Bush or Ryan Seacrest or Carson Daily are all coming up with these comparisons on their own. His PR is pushing the narrative in this direction and from a PR standpoint who wouldn’t want those comparisons. The problem comes when, as of right now; after releasing multiple albums, I am still waiting for the music to match hype.
Another comp career wise would be Justin Timberlake, he did the boyband to solo superstar jump and his PR team boldly implied that JT was the heir apparent to Michael Jackson’s king of Pop crown. The thing is, Timberlake came out of the gate smoking with banger single after banger single. So while the suggestions were weighty they at least made sense.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
It’s a modern take on an underground style of dance music that rarely makes it to the mainstream. Yeah, it bubbles up from the underground from time to time, like Madonna’s “Deeper and Deeper” but even that was just a single track on a 30 year old album. It’s innovative that the artist of the moment embraces the underground essentially pushing the underground into the mainstream.
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TrainFan73
Frothy
I mean, I guess. Just innovative isn't really the word for it, is it? Frankie Knuckles and Ron Hardy were innovative.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
I think there is something innovative in taking something niche and maximizing it. A Beyoncé single that sounds more like a Derrick May 12” than anything that surrounds it on top 40 radio is innovative within the scope of Pop music.
Bennnnn
Well-Known Member
The way people talked about Harry Styles I expected so much more from his music. Like he crossed beyond the super fans into regular music listeners. But that album to me is just so bland.
Djxfactor511
Well-Known Member
I didn't enjoy the Beyonce album one bit and have really been enjoying Harry, so I agree with the AOTY pick? Either that or Kendrick.
waruv
Well-Known Member
I think it may be worth separating the Elton and Bowie comparisons if that's the barometer. I'm not gonna claim I've been stalking Harry Styles media but, honestly, all I've seen on Elton v. Harry outside of here is like...the Halloween costume, general fashion choices, and Elton saying Harry's House was one of his favorites of the year. Outside of being British and loud in clothing I just don't see the comps that much between them as musicians and I don't think it's being invited tbh.
Bowie/Styles is definitely more common but I just have a ton of trouble dinging a guy's music for what may or may not be a marketing campaign by people poised to make money off of him and, honestly, I again see it more as a comparison of style and presentation as opposed to music. I don't think it's the most insane comparison career wise - both spent the first half decade or so of their career in creatively derivative bands/groups where they likely didn't get to flex their talent to then break off solo and really do what they want. Both are unapologetically "out there" personality and image wise with little regard to what the population at large expects*. To your point on Elton and Bowie, the big issue with the comp is that Harry hasn't, in my view, had that Magnum Opus. Now, I'd say Bowie hadn't either yet (like Elton), - like I'm trying to consider that Bowie really didn't take off in his time until his fourth and fifth albums which then had people go back to The Man Who Sold The World for instance.
On the larger scale, I just don't have it in me to really give the comparisons much mental weight for, well, the Timberlake of it all. To your point, the Justin Timberlake comparison seems instructive. JT, I'd agree, aggressively pursued exactly what you might expect him to if he's going the Jackson route - he flamed out hard after 20/20 Part 1 (and even 20/20 Part 1 started to show signs). A lot of the Styles narrative will probably be what his Albums 4-7 look like: is it more Honky Chateau and Hunky Dory or more Man In The Woods? Time will tell.*
* I do think we disagree on the level of bangerness on JT vs. Styles singles (a lot of JT's stuff really hasn't aged well to me), but I also think the pop environment of 2002 is so different than the one of 2022 that it's hard to really compare them. There's a reason a ton of folks thought Zayn and Niall and not Harry would be the breakout of OneDirection after all - because they would be in 2002.
waruv
Well-Known Member
As an unrelated aside, relistening to Beyonce this morning. Regardless of the stance on originality or not (I can see Lee and TLK's views on it), it's so damn impressive to just jump into a genre and put out so many great tracks and really take what was (and is) commercially an out of favor genre and just make it feel like the biggest thing in the world.
Melt Face Molly Drop
Well-Known Member
Khaled*, let’s not get him mixed up with Khalid, an actual singer
TrainFan73
Frothy
I do this all the time.
Bluecloud777
Well-Known Member
I've just been watching the Grammy Show. I've really liked many of the performances, great mixture. I'm also not agreeing with some of the award decisions. Beyoncé really should've had AOTY. I don't think the Harry Styles album is completely bad, there are some really catching songs on it as "Late night talking" or "As it was", but also many rather mediocre ones.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
I feel seen…
This from Pitchforks write up regarding Styles performance and AOTY win from last nights awards:
“Harry Styles has always excelled at distracting people from his music. He has an eye-catching sense of style; a cross-platform reach that assures he’s always just one photoshoot, acting role, or tabloid story away from the zeitgeist; and a love of classic rock that allows his name to sit alongside some lofty heroes just by association. There are a million reasons to feel wrapped up in his fame, his ambition, his charm. But where does his music—the thing that’s ostensibly being rewarded on the Grammy stage—fit into the mix?
His exhausted performance of “As It Was” won’t be the thing that convinces the skeptics. For an artist who recently sold out 15 nights at Madison Square Garden, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe his voice was shot from a year of hard touring. Maybe he felt some nerves singing in front of Taylor Swift. But one thing is for sure: Neither the performance’s Gap-commercial choreography nor his silvery mop of an outfit, neither the auxiliary bells dumped into the arrangement nor the spinning stage airlifted right from the video, could help him transcend onstage. In a word, it was boring—the very quality Harry Styles works so hard to convince you he’s not.
“I don’t think any of us sit in the studio making decisions based on what’s gonna get us one of these,” he said later on, holding up the award for Album of the Year. But let’s say an artist did make a record based on this criteria: It might sound a little like Harry’s House (and—conspiracy theory alert—that’s ignoring the fact that the daughter of a Grammys producer was featured on “As It Was”). “This doesn’t happen to people like me very often,” he added, the same message he’s delivered to rapturous audiences at his live shows. But until his music lives up to his multi-dimensional persona, he remains exactly the type of artist the Grammys like to celebrate—to a fault. –Sam Sodomsky”
pitchfork.com
This from Pitchforks write up regarding Styles performance and AOTY win from last nights awards:
“Harry Styles has always excelled at distracting people from his music. He has an eye-catching sense of style; a cross-platform reach that assures he’s always just one photoshoot, acting role, or tabloid story away from the zeitgeist; and a love of classic rock that allows his name to sit alongside some lofty heroes just by association. There are a million reasons to feel wrapped up in his fame, his ambition, his charm. But where does his music—the thing that’s ostensibly being rewarded on the Grammy stage—fit into the mix?
His exhausted performance of “As It Was” won’t be the thing that convinces the skeptics. For an artist who recently sold out 15 nights at Madison Square Garden, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe his voice was shot from a year of hard touring. Maybe he felt some nerves singing in front of Taylor Swift. But one thing is for sure: Neither the performance’s Gap-commercial choreography nor his silvery mop of an outfit, neither the auxiliary bells dumped into the arrangement nor the spinning stage airlifted right from the video, could help him transcend onstage. In a word, it was boring—the very quality Harry Styles works so hard to convince you he’s not.
“I don’t think any of us sit in the studio making decisions based on what’s gonna get us one of these,” he said later on, holding up the award for Album of the Year. But let’s say an artist did make a record based on this criteria: It might sound a little like Harry’s House (and—conspiracy theory alert—that’s ignoring the fact that the daughter of a Grammys producer was featured on “As It Was”). “This doesn’t happen to people like me very often,” he added, the same message he’s delivered to rapturous audiences at his live shows. But until his music lives up to his multi-dimensional persona, he remains exactly the type of artist the Grammys like to celebrate—to a fault. –Sam Sodomsky”
The 12 Best and Worst Moments of the 2023 Grammys
From Beyoncé’s historic feat to Harry Styles’ empty gestures to Bad Bunny’s show-stopping audaciousness
Aron
Well-Known Member
I haven’t listened to all of the Beyonce album, but I’ve liked all of the singles I’ve heard. I wouldn’t even have been able to name a Harry Styles song before last year, but I really liked ‘Grapejuice’ from the moment I heard it. I actually really liked “Harry’s House”. I figured “Renaissance” was the favorite for AOY at The Grammys, but I figured “Harry’s House” was probably in the second spot. So I don’t consider it that big of a slight. I’ll admit his performance last night was not very good, and that song doesn’t happen to be one of my favorites. It’s okay, but it sounds too much like ‘Take On Me’ or something. I think 10 albums or whatever it was that were up for AOY was too many. Might have skewed the vote a bit when some if those albums clearly had no chance at winning AOY. I am a little salty that Spoon lost to Ozzy, but I’m not going to lose sleep over it or anything.