The Dark Side; Digital audio equipment recommendations and setup.

Ghost said:
New Thorens decks on the way, at the $1700 - $3000 price point. The 1500 is particularly gorgeous, may have to try and demo it when I get around to looking at the Technics GR and MoFi Ultradeck.

newatlas.com

Thorens spins out new turntables to tap into the rise of vinyl

For the last few years, music consumption on vinyl has enjoyed a steady rise and after a bit of a dip during COVID-19 lockdowns last year, vinyl records have registered a 94 percent increase in revenue according to the Mid-Year Music Industry Revenue Report recently released by the Record Industry…
newatlas.com newatlas.com
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i have a modded Thorens now as my main TT. I'll be interested to see how well these are reviewed. interesting that it has RCA and XLR outputs.
 
@Ghost if you like the look of those Thorens...and are looking in the price range of $2k and under...you should check out Dave at Vinyl Nirvana's stuff. He can kinda build custom reproductions for you (you can choose the plinth wood and what overall style of Thorens you want rebuilt). Super nice to deal with.

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Any experience with SCAD's around here? I'm kicking around getting a transport. I realise most here will prefer wifi/bluetooth and subscription based listening. I did that for a bit, but much prefered the slower pace and tactile interaction of vinyl. That said It's getting hard to find certain music, and everytime I do I'm seeing SCAD availability.

1. Do we think SCAD will stick around a while?
2. The SCAC/ CD and then layer thing... do most transports do all of the above?
3. Does anyone have a reccommendation from a sound experience perspective? (lets say 1k - 3k)
 
VMPKJ said:
Any experience with SCAD's around here? I'm kicking around getting a transport. I realise most here will prefer wifi/bluetooth and subscription based listening. I did that for a bit, but much prefered the slower pace and tactile interaction of vinyl. That said It's getting hard to find certain music, and everytime I do I'm seeing SCAD availability.

1. Do we think SCAD will stick around a while?
2. The SCAC/ CD and then layer thing... do most transports do all of the above?
3. Does anyone have a reccommendation from a sound experience perspective? (lets say 1k - 3k)
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1. Yes, to the extent it is a niche audiophile product. Don't expect it to get bigger, but if you're making SACDs now, you'll likely make them a few years from now.

2. Yes, if it plays SACDs, it will play regular CDs. I think that's what your question was?

3. My SACD player is an Oppo 105 and I love it. They're only available used since Oppo stopped making players (niche market and all that stuff). NM Oppos should be readily available with all the bells and whistles in your range.
 
wmeugene said:
1. Yes, to the extent it is a niche audiophile product. Don't expect it to get bigger, but if you're making SACDs now, you'll likely make them a few years from now.

2. Yes, if it plays SACDs, it will play regular CDs. I think that's what your question was?

3. My SACD player is an Oppo 105 and I love it. They're only available used since Oppo stopped making players (niche market and all that stuff). NM Oppos should be readily available with all the bells and whistles in your range.
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Thanks.

My second question involved the "layered" variety of SCAD's. I don't understand single layer Vs. multi etc.

Will I need a seperate DAC or do these generally convert to RCA line level?
 
VMPKJ said:
Thanks.

My second question involved the "layered" variety of SCAD's. I don't understand single layer Vs. multi etc.

Will I need a seperate DAC or do these generally convert to RCA line level?
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There are two types of SACD.

The most common is a hybrid SACD. This has two layers. A CD layer and an SACD layer. The CD layer will play fine on any CD player. On an SACD player you can switch between the two layers with your remote.

The other type is a single layer SACD. This only has the SACD layer and can thus only be played on an SACD player. This is rarer in the west but you will encounter it a lot if you buy any Japanese SACDs.

As to your other question. It depends. It’s again similar to CDs. If you buy just a transport it will need a DAC. If you buy a player it will have a DAC built in and will output analogue via RCA and/or XLR. Separate SACD transports are however very rare and are at the super expensive crazy end of the hobby, the vast majority are players that will output an analogue signal to your amp because they have a built in DAC.
 
Joe Mac said:
There are two types of SACD.

The most common is a hybrid SACD. This has two layers. A CD layer and an SACD layer. The CD layer will play fine on any CD player. On an SACD player you can switch between the two layers with your remote.

The other type is a single layer SACD. This only has the SACD layer and can thus only be played on an SACD player. This is rarer in the west but you will encounter it a lot if you buy any Japanese SACDs.

As to your other question. It depends. It’s again similar to CDs. If you buy just a transport it will need a DAC. If you buy a player it will have a DAC built in and will output analogue via RCA and/or XLR. Separate SACD transports are however very rare and are at the super expensive crazy end of the hobby, the vast majority are players that will output an analogue signal to your amp because they have a built in DAC.
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I briefly looked into SACD players…don’t some also have a digital out so you COULD use your own DAC if you wanted?
 
MikeH said:
I briefly looked into SACD players…don’t some also have a digital out so you COULD use your own DAC if you wanted?
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Absolutely not. Only for CDs! Coax and optical isn’t capable of handling a DSD signal unless it’s first converted to DOP and Sony are super reluctant to allow the SACD layer to be separately decoded so they can never even do that. Every SACD player I’ve owned/seen only outputs the CD layer through digital.

The super expensive transports pay a fortune to Sony for the rights, use proprietary i2s connections and can only be attached to the same companies DACs.
 
Joe Mac said:
Absolutely not. Only for CDs! Coax and optical isn’t capable of handling a DSD signal unless it’s first converted to DOP and Sony are super reluctant to allow the SACD layer to be separately decoded so they can never even do that. Every SACD player I’ve owned/seen only outputs the CD layer through digital.

The super expensive transports pay a fortune to Sony for the rights, use proprietary i2s connections and can only be attached to the same companies DACs.
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Ooh I didn’t realize that was only for the CD layer. Dammit Sony…
 
Joe Mac said:
Absolutely not. Only for CDs! Coax and optical isn’t capable of handling a DSD signal unless it’s first converted to DOP and Sony are super reluctant to allow the SACD layer to be separately decoded so they can never even do that. Every SACD player I’ve owned/seen only outputs the CD layer through digital.

The super expensive transports pay a fortune to Sony for the rights, use proprietary i2s connections and can only be attached to the same companies DACs.
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I seem to remember something about the early playstation 3's being the only viable option for output of SACD & SACD rips
 
wmeugene said:
Thats correct, my 105 can do it but I've never tried. Seemed like too much work.
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I'm guessing the DAC on the Oppo 105 is well thought of?
Joe Mac said:
There are two types of SACD.

The most common is a hybrid SACD. This has two layers. A CD layer and an SACD layer. The CD layer will play fine on any CD player. On an SACD player you can switch between the two layers with your remote.

The other type is a single layer SACD. This only has the SACD layer and can thus only be played on an SACD player. This is rarer in the west but you will encounter it a lot if you buy any Japanese SACDs.

As to your other question. It depends. It’s again similar to CDs. If you buy just a transport it will need a DAC. If you buy a player it will have a DAC built in and will output analogue via RCA and/or XLR. Separate SACD transports are however very rare and are at the super expensive crazy end of the hobby, the vast majority are players that will output an analogue signal to your amp because they have a built in DAC.
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So it's down to what DAC is on the player variety? Any recommendations?

I noticed Upscale has an ARCAM with this...
DAC chip: Sabre ESS9038 32-bit/192 kHz

and a Marantz with what they call MMM technology for theirs and has these specs
DAC: 32-bit / 3945 kHz

Not sure about the Oppo 105... Looks like a Sabre on the oppo
 
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VMPKJ said:
I'm guessing the DAC on the Oppo 105 is well thought of?

So it's down to what DAC is on the player variety? Any recomendations?
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Depends on the budget but Marantz have an excellent reputation for making both good DACs and good drive units at their price points. That carries to Denon at a lower point because it’s the same company so the parts are broadly similar.
 
VMPKJ said:
I'm guessing the DAC on the Oppo 105 is well thought of?

So it's down to what DAC is on the player variety? Any recommendations?

I noticed Upscale has an ARCAM with this...
DAC chip: Sabre ESS9038 32-bit/192 kHz

and a Marantz with what they call MMM technology for theirs and has these specs
DAC: 32-bit / 3945 kHz

Not sure about the Oppo 105... Looks like a Sabre on the oppo
Click to expand...
Everything I've read is that it is great. I don't have any points of realistic comparison, but it is a forever piece of equipment for me.
 
VMPKJ said:
I'm guessing the DAC on the Oppo 105 is well thought of?

So it's down to what DAC is on the player variety? Any recommendations?

I noticed Upscale has an ARCAM with this...
DAC chip: Sabre ESS9038 32-bit/192 kHz

and a Marantz with what they call MMM technology for theirs and has these specs
DAC: 32-bit / 3945 kHz

Not sure about the Oppo 105... Looks like a Sabre on the oppo
Click to expand...

Bear in mind that SACDs are DSD so the PCM specs above don’t really matter. The Marantz MMM on their better players has a really good reputation because it upscales everything to a higher DSD rate (even CDs and files/streaming connected via USB). It supposedly sounds quite natural for having done that.
 
wmeugene said:
Everything I've read is that it is great. I don't have any points of realistic comparison, but it is a forever piece of equipment for me.
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Assuming you listen to SCAD's and run it through the same amp / speaker set up... how does the sound compare to your turntable set up generally?
 
Randomly looking at 4K Blu Players and noticed some of the better ones play SACD. Sony especially, anybody got any feedback on that? Worth influencing any tie breakers or just low end added feature?

Also I guess I overlooked this, is SACD not really a benefit in stereo set up and more of a 5.1 type format?
 
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VMPKJ said:
Assuming you listen to SCAD's and run it through the same amp / speaker set up... how does the sound compare to your turntable set up generally?
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Before I upgraded my preamp/speakers, the oppo sounded slightly better in terms of clarity/separation of instruments. Haven't listened to the Oppo since my upgrades to be honest due to super limited time the past few weeks.

I would recommend without hesitation.
 
the only way to rip an SACD from what i know is by hacking an original PS3

which reminds me how somehow the original models of the PS1 were apparently some of the best CD players
 
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