Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

AnthonyI said:
I had an "interesting" conversation last night with a handful of people online. I quoted interesting because I came to the realization that the vinyl community is all over the map in what they like, dislike, the definition of the word "audiophile", equipment and so on. The oddest thing is that we tend to put the elitist crowd at the top end of all of this, the ones who spend a boat load of money and when in a conversation there is only 1 right answer, theirs. But funny enough, there is just as much, if not more, elitism at the "bottom" end, those that only buy used "vintage" equipment, never spend more than $5.00 on an album and when in a conversation there is only 1 right answer, theirs.

I like getting opinions from people, people who have used the gear I'm looking into, I also like reading and watching reviews....with a grain of salt. What I don't like is being "Told" what the right gear is. There is no right gear, there's what YOU like and what YOU can afford, neither of which contributes to your audiophile status, being an audiophile has nothing to do with how expensive your equipment is or how many records you own. The word has just gotten morphed into so many things it's not.

This conversation was crazy, in my opinion, not that one persons opinion of something was crazy, but how hard those people, shall I say, dug in their heals on their opinions at both ends of the elitist spectrum. That's way too much work in this hobby, I mean obsessing over certain things and then spending just as much time convincing other's your way is the ONLY way. The hobby is supposed to be fun, it's supposed to breed good light hearted conversations about music, pressings and gear. If you like what a $100 cart does for you, that's great, share what you like about it, do your best to explain what you hear and why you like it, be open to "If you like that, maybe give this a try next time" and don't take offence to those comments, we're here to share and help each other.

The hobby can be frustrating, cause major FOMO and sometimes leave you feeling you're below some mythical bar that was set. At the end of the day all that matters is what you hear and how you like it, listen to those who have been there and then make up your own mind, everyone has an opinion, don't get lost in all of those opinions. It reminds me of a friend I had years ago, in the hey day of Apple coming out with a new phone every 3 months it seemed, she wanted an iPhone so bad, but kept putting it off because she was afraid that once she bought one, a new one would come out and she wouldn't have the latest and greatest, at that point your never getting that iPhone, and why you want one is more about having the latest and greatest as opposed to wanting a good phone.

This "meeting of the minds" ended up with a lot of arguing, name calling, confused OPs and I'm sure a lot of people just shaking there heads and just sliding out of the conversation. I got a PM out of all of that from someone new-ish to the hobby and expressed the same information that I've expressed above, now it's up to them to make a choice that they're happy with............because that's the ONLY person who needs to be happy with the choices you make. That being said, we all make choices that turn out to be less than what we expected, that's nobody's fault, just learn from it, weigh the pros and cons and make another choice, in this hobby you have to "break a few eggs", just don't obsess over it ;)
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This is a great post.
 
AnthonyI said:
Hahaha, when I first told my wife I wanted a "Music Room" eventually, that's kind of what she thought. A sterile space with just gear, a chair in the middle of the room and foam padding on the walls. I'm like, no, no, no, your not understanding my "Happy Place" at all................she feels better about the music room now ;)
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Yeah when we were kids my dad built a conservatory into the garden off the living room as his music room. Most of the looney strain audiophiles are probably scoffing at the idea of having a music room with so much glass but they’re missing out more than we may have been, it was such a nice place to be and have people in and listen to music that it more than made up for any perceived sound difficulties. And that was with much more modest gear than I’m running now.
 
Joe Mac said:
Still hard against room treatments in a domestic space. Whenever on other forums I see ridiculous systems where the room is taken over by the system with comically oversized gear and speakers halfway out into the room, no windows in sight and ugly lumps stuck to the walls I don’t feel envy, I feel extreme pity, no sound is worth that! I do agree with the idea of picking gear that will suit the size/shape of the normal room that you have to live part of your normal life in.
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I totally agree to an extent. I've heard well treated rooms sound amazing, and I've seen room treatments that look great. But the reality of it is, a room that looks nice, has technically well placed treatments, AND is comfortable usually becomes... expensive. Really expensive. And usually requires some decent square footage as well. I think a room can be an amazing technical listening space, and a comfortable room to be in. But for most people, it's very unrealistic.

I personally already know the limitation of my new room that would require treatments to fix... gear changes won't get it there. And I also know some of which I will not be doing because I like the fact that we can still comfortably use the room for other things. I like that it feels welcoming and warm for guests to come into the space. But having said all that, I do think if people want to get serious, they can do so with little tweaks. Your furniture selection makes an impact. Where you store your gear and albums in your room makes an impact. Carpet/rugs make an impact. You can choose tapestries or wall art with 3D structures to serve as a diffuser of sorts vs glass framed pictures to help tame some sounds. Get plush furniture with lots of pillows. Don't like bass traps? Get a stylish open sided or fabric bin filled with lush comfortable blankets. It won't do everything a real bass trap will do, but it also will do more than an empty corner, it'll look normal, and it offers comfy blankets for getting situated. If you want to really go to a new level, you can choose tapestries built into frames with various sound treatments built into the frame. You could even turn concert t-shirts into medium poster sized wall treatments.

I'm not saying everyone should go to these lengths. I won't do all these things. Hell, we already have posters in glass frames on the walls. Our record storage placement and my cleaning station placement create a wondering center image at times... which is a trade off I'm willing to make to keep the room functional and pleasing. And I want my partner to be happy and want to spend time in the room as well. But you also won't hear me getting frustrated about not finding that perfect dead locked center and taming that occasional high frequency spiked caused by the rear wall reflection... because I'm aware of the costs. The LIFE costs. And I think that's why people need to consider the room as part of their gear. It's not just how much money are you willing to part with, but what other life costs are you willing to invest to chase that dragon of the mythical "perfect" sound. At some point you just need to have time to sit down and listen to some jams.

And we won't even get into how many great songs are terrible recordings that can become entirely not fun on some systems. That's a whole additional element to this chasing the dragon element of the hobby.

Edit - adding in this wonderful comment form @Splunders on the set up photo thread...
"And two cat tree bass traps."
That's exactly what I'm talking about, lol. Functional treatments!

Ethos99 said:
the $5000 diamond needle three pulley carbon fiber belt drive turntable suspended on magnesium pillars won't either.
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This is hilarious! It's so true, and so funny to me.
It's also kind of painful watching people hit that point sometimes. You can tell they just can't enjoy music on the day to day anymore, or appreciate other stuff for what it is.
 
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displayname said:
I totally agree to an extent. I've heard well treated rooms sound amazing, and I've seen room treatments that look great. But the reality of it is, a room that looks nice, has technically well placed treatments, AND is comfortable usually becomes... expensive. Really expensive. And usually requires some decent square footage as well. I think a room can be an amazing technical listening space, and a comfortable room to be in. But for most people, it's very unrealistic.

I personally already know the limitation of my new room that would require treatments to fix... gear changes won't get it there. And I also know some of which I will not be doing because I like the fact that we can still comfortably use the room for other things. I like that it feels welcoming and warm for guests to come into the space. But having said all that, I do think if people want to get serious, they can do so with little tweaks. Your furniture selection makes an impact. Where you store your gear and albums in your room makes an impact. Carpet/rugs make an impact. You can choose tapestries or wall art with 3D structures to serve as a diffuser of sorts vs glass framed pictures to help tame some sounds. Get plush furniture with lots of pillows. Don't like bass traps? Get a stylish open sided or fabric bin filled with lush comfortable blankets. It won't do everything a real bass trap will do, but it also will do more than an empty corner, it'll look normal, and it offers comfy blankets for getting situated. If you want to really go to a new level, you can choose tapestries built into frames with various sound treatments built into the frame. You could even turn concert t-shirts into medium poster sized wall treatments.

I'm not saying everyone should go to these lengths. I won't do all these things. Hell, we already have posters in glass frames on the walls. Our record storage placement and my cleaning station placement create a wondering center image at times... which is a trade off I'm willing to make to keep the room functional and pleasing. And I want my partner to be happy and want to spend time in the room as well. But you also won't hear me getting frustrated about not finding that perfect dead locked center and taming that occasional high frequency spiked caused by the rear wall reflection... because I'm aware of the costs. The LIFE costs. And I think that's why people need to consider the room as part of their gear. It's not just how much money are you willing to part with, but what other life costs are you willing to invest to chase that dragon of the mythical "perfect" sound. At some point you just need to have time to sit down and listen to some jams.

And we won't even get into how many great songs are terrible recordings that can become entirely not fun on some systems. That's a whole additional element to this chasing the dragon element of the hobby.


This is hilarious! It's so true, and so funny to me.
It's also kind of painful watching people hit that point sometimes. You can tell they just can't enjoy music on the day to day anymore, or appreciate other stuff for what it is.
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Yeah and even what you’ve just mentioned is way way too far for me. It would feel like an imposition on my style. I want family photos and art that I like on the wall. I don’t want a carpet floor or a rug. I want a sofa that is comfortable and looks good. I want that log burner for the winter even if it’s a dust factory. I want gorgeous big windows that let in loads of light and let me see out to my surroundings.

Honestly the more things trend audiophile rather than “huge music fan who wants his tunes to sound as good as possible” the less interested I become and room treatments are the point where I begin to think that the shark has been well and truly jumped.
 
I like the look of my "listening room" although really it's just my livingroom due to there being not enough rooms in my house to have a dedicated listening room. But when I'm spinning for the purposes of really listening to something I have all the lights off and it's pitch back in the room. Like I can barely see my hand in front of my face, so at that point the look of my room is rather moot.
 
This has been an interesting discussion—I appreciate the comments and perspectives. It got me thinking about my listening space, gear and the decisions/compromises that have brought me here.

I have a fairly modest rig right now compared to most on this thread. I aspire to slowly upgrade when/if I have the budget but I’m also limited by my current space. I live in an older, smaller house (<2,000 square feet) and I’m lucky to have a dedicated room for listening, although not ideal geometry for audiophile sonics — nowhere close.

My wife has reasonably asked that it be cozy, comfortable and somewhere she would enjoy hanging out (that is, when I’m not playing my drone and experimental records 🙂). So having a lot of the qualities @Joe Mac described.

I was a full-time performing musician many years ago (at the low end of the spectrum) so I come from a DIY-sound-in-a-dive-bar-space aesthetic. I love and appreciate great sound because it was a unicorn to me for many years. But I also learned that a listening experience can be more than what goes into your ears.

While I aspire to great sound, acceptance of limitations has become part of my DNA. I will never be an audiophile to the level of the enthusiasts on this thread but I love thinking about possibilities. Which is why I appreciate this thread and the non-judgemental, generous and no-strings-attached guidance/advice that is exchanged here.

My space is a good balance right now. My wife is happy to hang out with me here and houseguests are drawn to the room. There is natural light. It’s got good lighting for a cozy ambiance after dark. There are spots for family photographs and personal knickknacks. The room is small and rectangular and the sonics could be better. There is sizable glass. I would love better gear but what I have doesn’t suck and gets the job done. Zu Souls someday, baby.

Here’s my space.

D4A35233-1713-40CD-A8A9-C20DE1453340.jpeg
 
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dropsonde said:
This has been an interesting discussion—I appreciate the comments and perspectives. It got me thinking about my listening space, gear and the decisions/compromises that have brought me here.

I have a fairly modest rig right now compared to most on this thread. I aspire to slowly upgrading when/if I have the budget but I’m also limited by my current space. I live in an older, smaller house (<2,000 square feet) and I’m lucky to have a dedicated room for listening. It’s not an ideal shape for audiophile sonics and nowhere close.

That said, my wife has reasonably asked that it be cozy, comfortable and somewhere she is interested in hanging out at (when I’m not playing my drone and experimental records 🙂). So having a lot of qualities @Joe Mac has described.

I was a full-time performing musician many years ago (at the low end of the spectrum) so come from a DIY-sound-in-a-dive-bar-space aesthetic. I love and appreciate good sound because it was a unicorn to me for many years. But I also learned that a listening experience can be more than what goes in your ears.

As I said, I aspire to good sound but acceptance of limitations have become part of my DNA. I will never be an audiophile to the level of the enthusiasts on this thread. Which is why I appreciate this thread and the non-judgemental, generous and no-strings-attached guidance/advice that is exchanged here.

My space is a good balance right now. My wife is happy to hang out with me here and houseguests are drawn to the room. There is natural light. It’s got good lighting for a cozy ambiance after dark. There are spots for family photographs and personal knickknacks. The room is rectangular and the sonics could be better. I would love better gear but what I have doesn’t suck and gets the job done. Zu Souls someday, baby.

Here’s my space.

View attachment 66721
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Thats a nice cozy space...I quite like it 👍
 
to be honest i like actually being told what upgrade to get... i have the problem of the paradox of choice. so many cartridges promising to have amazing sound and so many sites say ortofon but some say nagaoka and some say goldring and people here say grado. but its very confusing and i have no idea what i would want to do because its like i know the exact problem i have with the cartridge and headphone combo (too relaxed, not enough of an impact, the bass and mids kinda blend in), but i dunno if the solution is a better amplifier for the headphones, different headphones than the sennheiser 58X altogether, or getting a different cartridge..

sometimes its nice to be told what to do
 
duke86fan said:
to be honest i like actually being told what upgrade to get... i have the problem of the paradox of choice. so many cartridges promising to have amazing sound and so many sites say ortofon but some say nagaoka and some say goldring and people here say grado. but its very confusing and i have no idea what i would want to do because its like i know the exact problem i have with the cartridge and headphone combo (too relaxed, not enough of an impact, the bass and mids kinda blend in), but i dunno if the solution is a better amplifier for the headphones, different headphones than the sennheiser 58X altogether, or getting a different cartridge..

sometimes its nice to be told what to do
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I kind of get that. i think there's some balance to dialing the choices down but then also exploring those choices over time. There is no perfect choice and even if there was for today it won't be for tomorrow. Cartridges, in particular, wear out. Try something different then. The reviews are to make sure I'm not buying garbage or that I aa buying within the window of what will please me. I may discover that Grado is definitely the cartridge for me but I would only discover that through my own subjective experience over time. Relax and enjoy what you have now.
 
dropsonde said:
This has been an interesting discussion—I appreciate the comments and perspectives. It got me thinking about my listening space, gear and the decisions/compromises that have brought me here.

I have a fairly modest rig right now compared to most on this thread. I aspire to slowly upgrading when/if I have the budget but I’m also limited by my current space. I live in an older, smaller house (<2,000 square feet) and I’m lucky to have a dedicated room for listening. It’s not an ideal shape for audiophile sonics and nowhere close.

That said, my wife has reasonably asked that it be cozy, comfortable and somewhere she is interested in hanging out at (when I’m not playing my drone and experimental records 🙂). So having a lot of qualities @Joe Mac has described.

I was a full-time performing musician many years ago (at the low end of the spectrum) so come from a DIY-sound-in-a-dive-bar-space aesthetic. I love and appreciate good sound because it was a unicorn to me for many years. But I also learned that a listening experience can be more than what goes in your ears.

As I said, I aspire to good sound but acceptance of limitations have become part of my DNA. I will never be an audiophile to the level of the enthusiasts on this thread. Which is why I appreciate this thread and the non-judgemental, generous and no-strings-attached guidance/advice that is exchanged here.

My space is a good balance right now. My wife is happy to hang out with me here and houseguests are drawn to the room. There is natural light. It’s got good lighting for a cozy ambiance after dark. There are spots for family photographs and personal knickknacks. The room is rectangular and the sonics could be better. I would love better gear but what I have doesn’t suck and gets the job done. Zu Souls someday, baby.

Here’s my space.

View attachment 66721
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Me likey. This is my aim - a room where the music stuff isn't the focus. I'll happily take a hit to my sound quality for a room that we all can live in and use.
 
duke86fan said:
to be honest i like actually being told what upgrade to get... i have the problem of the paradox of choice. so many cartridges promising to have amazing sound and so many sites say ortofon but some say nagaoka and some say goldring and people here say grado. but its very confusing and i have no idea what i would want to do because its like i know the exact problem i have with the cartridge and headphone combo (too relaxed, not enough of an impact, the bass and mids kinda blend in), but i dunno if the solution is a better amplifier for the headphones, different headphones than the sennheiser 58X altogether, or getting a different cartridge..

sometimes its nice to be told what to do
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I totally understand what your saying. For me it's ensuring that all the audio components I buy will ultimately have synergy. What makes it even harder is not being able to audition some of these components whether it be a turntable or preamplifier because of the current climate and lack of actually brick and mortar stores in my area. All I have to base my decision on is online reviews and N&G's recommendations. 🤷‍♂️
 
Hollywood said:
I totally understand what your saying. For me it's ensuring that all the audio components I buy will ultimately have synergy. What makes it even harder is not being able to audition some of these components whether it be a turntable or preamplifier because of the current climate and lack of actually brick and mortar stores in my area. All I have to base my decision on is online reviews and N&G's recommendations. 🤷‍♂️
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Is the Planet of Sound on Bank Street still there? The Toronto location went online-only a few months ago.
 
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One of the nice things about having a projector rather than a tv is I THINK the screen might actually act as a bit of a sound damper which helps a bit with my room acoustics since this is a large rectangular room. Or it does nothing at all and I'm totally just imagining that.
 
BjorgenFjorgen said:
That's too bad. Fond memories of going there when I first moved to Ottawa in 2007 and buying some of my first records.
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It's a shame indeed. Now we are down to just a few AV/Hi-Fi stores including Audioshop on Bank, Stereo Passion (currently closed and on life support), Aura Design (recently changed their business model to custom automation) and my friend's new company Sound & Sight which currently works from home.
 
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