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Dukey is just ripping on me, rightly so. I don't think they actually believe MM equals low end...

Yes, I gathered it was all light-hearted. I didn't quote them for that reason - didn't want it to seem like I was holding their feet to the fire about what they said.

More so that I wanted to chime in with those thoughts 'cause, ya know, the internet...
 
I had an "interesting" conversation last night with a handful of people online. I quoted interesting because I came to the realization that the vinyl community is all over the map in what they like, dislike, the definition of the word "audiophile", equipment and so on. The oddest thing is that we tend to put the elitist crowd at the top end of all of this, the ones who spend a boat load of money and when in a conversation there is only 1 right answer, theirs. But funny enough, there is just as much, if not more, elitism at the "bottom" end, those that only buy used "vintage" equipment, never spend more than $5.00 on an album and when in a conversation there is only 1 right answer, theirs.

I like getting opinions from people, people who have used the gear I'm looking into, I also like reading and watching reviews....with a grain of salt. What I don't like is being "Told" what the right gear is. There is no right gear, there's what YOU like and what YOU can afford, neither of which contributes to your audiophile status, being an audiophile has nothing to do with how expensive your equipment is or how many records you own. The word has just gotten morphed into so many things it's not.

This conversation was crazy, in my opinion, not that one persons opinion of something was crazy, but how hard those people, shall I say, dug in their heals on their opinions at both ends of the elitist spectrum. That's way too much work in this hobby, I mean obsessing over certain things and then spending just as much time convincing other's your way is the ONLY way. The hobby is supposed to be fun, it's supposed to breed good light hearted conversations about music, pressings and gear. If you like what a $100 cart does for you, that's great, share what you like about it, do your best to explain what you hear and why you like it, be open to "If you like that, maybe give this a try next time" and don't take offence to those comments, we're here to share and help each other.

The hobby can be frustrating, cause major FOMO and sometimes leave you feeling you're below some mythical bar that was set. At the end of the day all that matters is what you hear and how you like it, listen to those who have been there and then make up your own mind, everyone has an opinion, don't get lost in all of those opinions. It reminds me of a friend I had years ago, in the hey day of Apple coming out with a new phone every 3 months it seemed, she wanted an iPhone so bad, but kept putting it off because she was afraid that once she bought one, a new one would come out and she wouldn't have the latest and greatest, at that point your never getting that iPhone, and why you want one is more about having the latest and greatest as opposed to wanting a good phone.

This "meeting of the minds" ended up with a lot of arguing, name calling, confused OPs and I'm sure a lot of people just shaking there heads and just sliding out of the conversation. I got a PM out of all of that from someone new-ish to the hobby and expressed the same information that I've expressed above, now it's up to them to make a choice that they're happy with............because that's the ONLY person who needs to be happy with the choices you make. That being said, we all make choices that turn out to be less than what we expected, that's nobody's fault, just learn from it, weigh the pros and cons and make another choice, in this hobby you have to "break a few eggs", just don't obsess over it ;)
 
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I had an "interesting" conversation last night with a handful of people online. I quoted interesting because I came to the realization that the vinyl community is all over the map in what they like, dislike, the definition of the word "audiophile", equipment and so on. The oddest thing is that we tend to put the elitist crowd at the top end of all of this, the ones who spend a boat load of money and when in a conversation there is only 1 right answer, theirs. But funny enough, there is just as much, if not more, elitism at the "bottom" end, those that only buy used "vintage" equipment, never spend more than $5.00 on an album and when in a conversation there is only 1 right answer, theirs.

I like getting opinions from people, people who have used the gear I'm looking into, I also like reading and watching reviews....with a grain of salt. What I don't like is being "Told" what the right gear is. There is no right gear, there's what YOU like and what YOU can afford, neither of which contributes to your audiophile status, being an audiophile has nothing to do with how expensive your equipment is or how many records you own. The word has just gotten morphed into so many things it's not.

This conversation was crazy, in my opinion, not that one persons opinion of something was crazy, but how hard those people, shall I say, dug in their heals on their opinions at both ends of the elitist spectrum. That's way too much work in this hobby, I mean obsessing over certain things and then spending just as much time convincing other's you're way is the ONLY way. The hobby is supposed to be fun, it's supposed to breed good light hearted conversations about music, pressings and gear. If you like what a $100 cart does for you, that's great, share what you like about it, do your best to explain what you hear and why you like it, be open to "If you like that, maybe give this a try next time" and don't take offence to those comments, we're here to share and help each other.

The hobby can be frustrating, cause major FOMO and sometimes leave you feeling you're below some mythical bar that was set. At the end of the day all that matters is what you hear and how you like it, listen to those who have been there and then make up your own mind, everyone has an opinion, don't get lost in all of those opinions. It reminds me of a friend I had years ago, in the hey day of Apple coming out with a new phone every 3 months it seemed, she wanted an iPhone so bad, but kept putting it off because she was afraid that once she bought one, a new one would come out and she wouldn't have the latest and greatest, at that point your never getting that iPhone, and why you want one is more about having the latest and greatest as opposed to wanting a good phone.

This "meeting of the minds" ended up with a lot of arguing, name calling, confused OPs and I'm sure a lot of people just shaking there heads and just sliding out of the conversation. I got a PM out of all of that from someone new-ish to the hobby and expressed the same information that I've expressed above, now it's up to them to make a choice that they're happy with............because that's the ONLY person who needs to be happy with the choices you make. That being said, we all make choices that turn out to be less than what we expected, that's nobody's fault, just learn from it, weigh the pros and cons and make another choice, in this hobby you have to "break a few eggs", just don't obsess over it ;)
It's in the ear 👂 of the beholder. 😉
 
It's in the ear 👂 of the beholder. 😉
It is, and what started this insanity last night was someone declaring they were "Done with Vinyl" and in a nut shell, they just got caught in this treadmill of chasing a sound they were never completely happy with. What they added, tweaked and so on never got them to where they wanted to be. Too much noise, sounds flat, this should sound better for what it cost, and on and on.

That's insanity, and in my opinion a bit of misguided expectation.
 
You had me until this part.. what's the insanity and misguided expectation?
The insanity is chasing something they don't even know what it is, if that makes sense, if you ask them, they can't really tell you in it's most basic breakdown, more bass, more dynamics and so on. The misguided expectation is taking what someone tells you as "gospel", buy this gear, cable, whatever and it'll fix everything because it's "The Best".
 
You had me until this part.. what's the insanity and misguided expectation?
This particular person kept going back to "It should sound better", but wouldn't equate that to anything but their gear. Any mention of pressing quality was ignored and any context asking if the issue was a constant from one LP to the other was dismissed.
 
This particular person kept going back to "It should sound better", but wouldn't equate that to anything but their gear. Any mention of pressing quality was ignored and any context asking if the issue was a constant from one LP to the other was dismissed.
Maybe they're just like my mother. She's never satisfied.
 
This particular person kept going back to "It should sound better", but wouldn't equate that to anything but their gear. Any mention of pressing quality was ignored and any context asking if the issue was a constant from one LP to the other was dismissed.
I have a few thoughts on this.
1 - some people need to accept that maybe this format just isn't for them. Maybe the whole hobby isn't for them.
2 - people really need to start considering their room and room treatments as part of their gear. That would probably help the person in question more than any other gear.
 
I have a few thoughts on this.
1 - some people need to accept that maybe this format just isn't for them. Maybe the whole hobby isn't for them.
2 - people really need to start considering their room and room treatments as part of their gear. That would probably help the person in question more than any other gear.

Still hard against room treatments in a domestic space. Whenever on other forums I see ridiculous systems where the room is taken over by the system with comically oversized gear and speakers halfway out into the room, no windows in sight and ugly lumps stuck to the walls I don’t feel envy, I feel extreme pity, no sound is worth that! I do agree with the idea of picking gear that will suit the size/shape of the normal room that you have to live part of your normal life in.
 
I have a few thoughts on this.
1 - some people need to accept that maybe this format just isn't for them. Maybe the whole hobby isn't for them.
2 - people really need to start considering their room and room treatments as part of their gear. That would probably help the person in question more than any other gear.
Point 1 for sure :)
 
This particular person kept going back to "It should sound better", but wouldn't equate that to anything but their gear. Any mention of pressing quality was ignored and any context asking if the issue was a constant from one LP to the other was dismissed.

I get what you're saying however there are quite a few people who can't get that sound they want out of their equipment or pressing and don't want to throw more money at it. Those same people that don't care about any technical aspects of why and how and just want easy.

This hobby isn't for everyone.

I liked and relate to your point on both ends of the spectrum. The vintage equipment buying "this tobacco stained copy of steppenwolf live with half the cover chewed off by a dog is the best album evar" folks won't listen to anyone and the $5000 diamond needle three pulley carbon fiber belt drive turntable suspended on magnesium pillars won't either.

Those two extremes might be a reason he is giving it up.
 
It is, and what started this insanity last night was someone declaring they were "Done with Vinyl" and in a nut shell, they just got caught in this treadmill of chasing a sound they were never completely happy with. What they added, tweaked and so on never got them to where they wanted to be. Too much noise, sounds flat, this should sound better for what it cost, and on and on.

I’m enough of a lunatic to be both a guitarist and vinyl collector. The rabbit chase in both of these communities when it comes to gear, oh my, truly insane! I try to have conversations that allow people to live more on the side of the spectrum I inhabit, which is the fact that we have so many options and routes at our disposal is what makes this so damn fun, and truly a lifetime’s work. It never ends, but you have to love it. If it drives you to the point of anger, time to take a breather and just spin some records, man!
 
I get what you're saying however there are quite a few people who can't get that sound they want out of their equipment or pressing and don't want to throw more money at it. Those same people that don't care about any technical aspects of why and how and just want easy.
By no means am I implying you need to spend more money to get "That Sound", which goes back to expectations. You can't expect to hear the same thing from a Croseley all in one as your buddy's, going to the more "basic", U-Turn with built in pre and powered speakers.
 
Still hard against room treatments in a domestic space. Whenever on other forums I see ridiculous systems where the room is taken over by the system with comically oversized gear and speakers halfway out into the room, no windows in sight and ugly lumps stuck to the walls I don’t feel envy, I feel extreme pity, no sound is worth that! I do agree with the idea of picking gear that will suit the size/shape of the normal room that you have to live part of your normal life in.
Totally. I like music. I don't like claustrophobic, brutalist chic combos regardless of how immersive it is. My overriding thought in most dedicated store listening rooms isn't 'isnt that sound great' it's 'get me the fuck out of here'. But then I think having baths is shit too

Immersion maaan. It's just not my bag.
 
Still hard against room treatments in a domestic space. Whenever on other forums I see ridiculous systems where the room is taken over by the system with comically oversized gear and speakers halfway out into the room, no windows in sight and ugly lumps stuck to the walls I don’t feel envy, I feel extreme pity, no sound is worth that! I do agree with the idea of picking gear that will suit the size/shape of the normal room that you have to live part of your normal life in.
I'd rather have music related art work, posters and music related memorabilia strewn about :)
 
Totally. I like music. I don't like claustrophobic, brutalist chic combos regardless of how immersive it is. My overriding thought in most dedicated store listening rooms isn't 'isnt that sound great' it's 'get me the fuck out of here'. But then I think having baths is shit too

Immersion maaan. It's just not my bag.

Yeah I mean I like sometimes to close my eyes and just music. But I also like it to just be there and soundtrack being on the balcony or working or people watching out the window or chatting to people I have over. That isn’t done in a sterile dark pit of expensive equipment, ugly bits of foam on the wall and no soul.

Also not into “relaxing” in the dirty water that I’ve just washed myself in...
 
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I'd rather have music related art work, posters and music related memorabilia strewn about :)

yeah and also the stuff of life. Even in a music room in a house I want it to be warm and welcoming a full of natural light with places for people to sit and share in the whole thing with me or that’s a nice place for me to enjoy being when I’m on my own beyond just the music.
 
yeah and also the stuff of life. Even in a music room in a house I want it to be warm and welcoming a full of natural light with places for people to sit and share in the whole thing with me or that’s a nice place for me to enjoy being when I’m on my own beyond just the music.
Hahaha, when I first told my wife I wanted a "Music Room" eventually, that's kind of what she thought. A sterile space with just gear, a chair in the middle of the room and foam padding on the walls. I'm like, no, no, no, your not understanding my "Happy Place" at all................she feels better about the music room now ;)
 
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