Vinyl Me Please Essentials

The Commish said:
Gut Response: No. They are certainly on the list those ripe for discussion, but no.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Genre on the Decline" - not saying you are wrong, but I can't filter that into the analysis without more clarity on what exactly that means.

Also does the band HAVE to be still active - or is that just ONE factor int eh equation?
That would dictate the Answer too.

Assuming we are talking about bands, active or defunct, based ONLY On their output from 1995 forward here is the list of Bands off the top of my head that would be above the Roots on that list in no particular order:
  • Nine Inch Nails
  • Beastie Boys
  • Wilco
  • Tribe Called Quest
  • The Flaming Lips
  • Godspeed You Black Emperor
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Barring a really wild reunion neither the Beasties nor A Tribe would be groups that I would consider as “Active” both essentially stated they were done after their most recent albums. Godspeed! Is great but I don’t think they have the widespread commercial appeal that all the rest of the artist listed here would account for. NIN is still alright though their output of basically one LP a decade lags considerably behind the others That leaves The Flaming Lips and Wilco.

I would say both have arguments to be made while neither have been super innovative recently they had a kind of widespread commercial and critical appeal that you would merit consideration. I would also agree with Radiohead. And would add The National to this list as well.

I also agree about the decline of rock music. Hip-hop has been the prominent cultural musical art form since at least the late 90s. At this point the last time Rock music was was somewhat Interesting and cultural relevant was the Meet Me In The Bathroom era which ended almost a decade ago at this point.
 
Plenty of great rock still being made, IMO (in the traditional, guitar-based sense of "rock") - The War on Drugs, Vampire Weekend, The National (mostly) - but I get the cultural relevancy argument.

If lineup stability is taken into consideration, Radiohead has gotta be it. I don't know much about The Roots, tbh, but I think Radiohead dwarfs them as far as recognition goes. Sales too, perhaps? Radiohead also hasn't been a late-night show house band, though...

Fun question to ponder!
 
TCell said:
Serious Question:
Are The Roots the best band of the past 25 years?
(I define "best" as a combination of popularity, longevity, critical acclaim, technical ability, and lasting impact on music.)

The only other band I can think that has those things is Radiohead, although Radiohead is in a genre (rock) on the decline, vs The Roots who were in a genre (Hip Hop) on the rise in popular music that coincided with their accent.

Curious on other folks thoughts.
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This is a great question. Are they my favourite band of the past 25 years? Yes, I think they are. They not only produce great, clever, and relevant music but they also have a great work ethic which is totally inclusive of race, religion, gender - they don't seem to have any prejudice which a lot of hip hop groups do. On top of that, they are also completely genre-fluid, meaning their music can be interesting to a wide range of people, not only those who are into hip hop.

BUT, do I think they could be classed as the greatest band of the past 25 years when other peoples views are taken into account? Certainly not. Maybe it's different in the US, especially considering their Jimmy Fallon connection, but over here in the UK I would wager that the average joe would not recognise them when questioned. They just don't seem to be that popular over here. I once mentioned them in conversation with a mate who is really into hip hop and he asked if they were an underground group. After I mentioned Questlove and hummed one of their songs he realised who they were, but his initial reaction is one that I imagine a lot of people would have.
 
oldschoolkirby said:
Plenty of great rock still being made, IMO (in the traditional, guitar-based sense of "rock") - The War on Drugs, Vampire Weekend, The National (mostly) - but I get the cultural relevancy argument.

If lineup stability is taken into consideration, Radiohead has gotta be it. I don't know much about The Roots, tbh, but I think Radiohead dwarfs them as far as recognition goes. Sales too, perhaps? Radiohead also hasn't been a late-night show house band, though...

Fun question to ponder!
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Rock is still my preferred musical style and certainly there is still lots of great music still being made. I am sure it will always be around kinda like jazz and blues, I just think as of right now there is a whole generation of kids coming of age where rock music has never mattered. In my life I had the early 90s alternative scene and the early 00s Indie rock scene but if I was a 18 or 19 year old there has been zero movements in the Rock music scene that even remotely compares either of these. I am completely fine with it, with the internet there will always be a sizable rock scene in little corners of the internet and I know kids today are having similar experiences just with indie pop or modern hip-hop or whatever and I know rock music has been declared dead hundreds of times prior only to come storming back but I don’t know if it has ever been this dormant for so long without being revived before.
 
Jmcg85 said:
It was pressed at the time but expensive and hard to find now. There are also a bunch of bootlegs available too so beware when buying. Needs a repress. I bet it gets an overpriced RSD release someday
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It was not, that's another one of those Euro bootlegs like Kanye's Late Orchestration. Do not overspend on this like our favorite resident vinyls Youtuber.
 
Jmcg85 said:
Oh ok it looks on discogs like one is legit. Thanks
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It, like Late Orchestration, were bootlegged in Europe around the time they came out. I know, cause I ran a record store at the time and these were not available from any real distribution channels. It's one of those user-generated 'grails' like Late Orchestration that if anyone really paid attention to, they'd see it's clearly a bootleg. Not knocking ya if you still want to buy it but I'm not paying $200+ for a record some European bootleggers pressed off a cd/mp3.
 
Clint Howard said:
It, like Late Orchestration, were bootlegged in Europe around the time they came out. I know, cause I ran a record store at the time and these were not available from any real distribution channels. It's one of those user-generated 'grails' like Late Orchestration that if anyone really paid attention to, they'd see it's clearly a bootleg. Not knocking ya if you still want to buy it but I'm not paying $200+ for a record some European bootleggers pressed off a cd/mp3.
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Jeez no I would have never even bought a proper release at that price. I'd rather have patience and live in the hope it will get a proper release someday
 
Jmcg85 said:
Jeez no I would have never even bought a proper release at that price. I'd rather have patience and live in the hope it will get a proper release someday
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For some reason I was under the impression that it did finally get a legit pressing a few years back.. I thought from like MOV maybe? But don't see anything on the Discogs so maybe I was misremembering that.
 
Clint Howard said:
For some reason I was under the impression that it did finally get a legit pressing a few years back.. I thought from like MOV maybe? But don't see anything on the Discogs so maybe I was misremembering that.
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I thought something similar too not so long ago but think I was confusing it with the Jay Z Linkin Park Mashup that dropped one RSD year
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Barring a really wild reunion neither the Beasties nor A Tribe would be groups that I would consider as “Active” both essentially stated they were done after their most recent albums. Godspeed! Is great but I don’t think they have the widespread commercial appeal that all the rest of the artist listed here would account for. NIN is still alright though their output of basically one LP a decade lags considerably behind the others That leaves The Flaming Lips and Wilco.

I would say both have arguments to be made while neither have been super innovative recently they had a kind of widespread commercial and critical appeal that you would merit consideration. I would also agree with Radiohead. And would add The National to this list as well.

I also agree about the decline of rock music. Hip-hop has been the prominent cultural musical art form since at least the late 90s. At this point the last time Rock music was was somewhat Interesting and cultural relevant was the Meet Me In The Bathroom era which ended almost a decade ago at this point.
Click to expand...

The list does change if we are talking "Active" "Bands" Only. I had included "active and defunct". Also, keep in mind this was a gut reaction list off the Top of my head. Radiohead was already mentioned and I left them off because of it. They clearly belong on the list and are probably #1 despite the Hip Hop coefficient.

The criteria was: combination of popularity, longevity, critical acclaim, technical ability, and lasting impact on music.I don't want to stir the pot, but I will say there are a couple of these that, outside of our N&G taste bubble, the Roots lose some ground on over others on the list.

I almost left GSYBE off the list, and thought about adding The National. Honestly, The Roots might settle into the ranking/list right along side them, they are a be a good comp in my mind for both of those given the stated criteria.

In a further effort to avoid an argument (as this is not the Hot Take Thread) I will simply say I respect your opinion regarding what you find subjectively "interesting", but I have to disagree regarding "Rock" (whatever that term is supposed to mean here), then or now, being more or less "interesting" and your opinons regarding Wilco (A.M. having been released in 1995).

Finally, the 1992 classic "Check Your Head" would like a moment with your opinion that the Beastie Boys were not "A Band". Not that I necessarily agree that Rolling Stone is the definitive authority on this issue but:
www.rollingstone.com

Boys to Men: The Beastie Boys

Five years ago the Beasties were seen as a novelty. Now the rap world is taking them seriously
www.rollingstone.com www.rollingstone.com

If we assume your arguments regarding the Hip Hop coefficient are accurate and valid and we are not limited to "Active" acts - I might have a very strong argument that the list starts with The Beastie Boys at #1.
 
The Commish said:
Gut Response: No. They are certainly on the list those ripe for discussion, but no.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Genre on the Decline" - not saying you are wrong, but I can't filter that into the analysis without more clarity on what exactly that means.

Also does the band HAVE to be still active - or is that just ONE factor int eh equation?
That would dictate the Answer too.

Assuming we are talking about bands, active or defunct, based ONLY On their output from 1995 forward here is the list of Bands off the top of my head that would be above the Roots on that list in no particular order:
  • Nine Inch Nails
  • Beastie Boys
  • Wilco
  • Tribe Called Quest
  • The Flaming Lips
  • Godspeed You Black Emperor
Click to expand...

I meant this as an "at the bar" discussion. I don't know that there's really a "best" as it's all subjective. No wrong opinions (well, except Nickelback and Hoobastank.)

When I just said that Rock was a genre in decline, I don't mean "Rock is dead", there's lots of great rock bands out there today, just that it means less culturally than it did in the 90s, whereas Hip Hop as kind of taken it's place as the musical genre of popular music.

Do they need to be active? Not necessarily. And it's hard to tell with some bands that have just faded away *cough* Pearl Jam *cough*

As for other bands that folks have mentioned:

Nine Inch Nails - Yeah, definitely in the discussion. Is NIN really a band or just Trent? Because if you consider Trent and Atticus Ross' soundtrack work as NIN, you could probably make an argument for them as #1.

Beastie Boys - Are they a band? Sure, but the part that disqualifies them (to me): Their prime years are not from the last 25 years. Paul's Boutique came out 31 years ago. If it’s the last 35 years, they’re probably #1.

Wilco - I love Wilco and think they are amazing. Also, they are the genre-defining Suburban Dad rock band. Which might make them higher on the list in terms of musical importance.

Tribe Called Quest - Sure. Similar to Beastie Boys, (IMO) their best albums were from 1990 - 1993, which is over 25 years ago.

Flaming Lips - Hadn't thought of them. I don't think they're impactful enough, but if they are to you, why not?

GY!BE - Popularity? Also took a 10 year hiatus.

The National - I love them, but will they have any impact on music going forward? (Spoon and Death Cab probably falls in this category too.)

Nic Cave & The Bad Seeds - Yeah, why not? Lasting impact and popularity though, idk.

Some others to consider:
Daft Punk - Are they a band? I think they could be in the Top 5 if you think they're a band.
Queens of the Stone Age? (Probably should be higher up than I would've thought)
The Strokes? White Stripes? Arcade Fire? Animal Collective? (Seem too hipster, and of a moment, but maybe?)
Sigur Ros? (Probably not popular enough)
Foo Fighters? Dave Matthews Band? Coldplay? (I just threw up in my mouth a little with all these bands. And I like them.)

Ween? (Are they mainstream popular though?)

Maybe Lady Antebellum?

Again, no wrong opinions. (Except Korn and Limp Bizkit.)
 
TCell said:
I meant this as an "at the bar" discussion. I don't know that there's really a "best" as it's all subjective. No wrong opinions (well, except Nickelback and Hoobastank.)

When I just said that Rock was a genre in decline, I don't mean "Rock is dead", there's lots of great rock bands out there today, just that it means less culturally than it did in the 90s, whereas Hip Hop as kind of taken it's place as the musical genre of popular music.

Do they need to be active? Not necessarily. And it's hard to tell with some bands that have just faded away *cough* Pearl Jam *cough*

As for other bands that folks have mentioned:

Nine Inch Nails - Yeah, definitely in the discussion. Is NIN really a band or just Trent? Because if you consider Trent and Atticus Ross' soundtrack work as NIN, you could probably make an argument for them as #1.

Beastie Boys - Are they a band? Sure, but the part that disqualifies them (to me): Their prime years are not from the last 25 years. Paul's Boutique came out 31 years ago. If it’s the last 35 years, they’re probably #1.

Wilco - I love Wilco and think they are amazing. Also, they are the genre-defining Suburban Dad rock band. Which might make them higher on the list in terms of musical importance.

Tribe Called Quest - Sure. Similar to Beastie Boys, (IMO) their best albums were from 1990 - 1993, which is over 25 years ago.

Flaming Lips - Hadn't thought of them. I don't think they're impactful enough, but if they are to you, why not?

GY!BE - Popularity? Also took a 10 year hiatus.

The National - I love them, but will they have any impact on music going forward? (Spoon and Death Cab probably falls in this category too.)

Nic Cave & The Bad Seeds - Yeah, why not? Lasting impact and popularity though, idk.

Some others to consider:
Daft Punk - Are they a band? I think they could be in the Top 5 if you think they're a band.
Queens of the Stone Age? (Probably should be higher up than I would've thought)
The Strokes? White Stripes? Arcade Fire? Animal Collective? (Seem too hipster, and of a moment, but maybe?)
Sigur Ros? (Probably not popular enough)
Foo Fighters? Dave Matthews Band? Coldplay? (I just threw up in my mouth a little with all these bands. And I like them.)

Maybe Lady Antebellum?

Again, no wrong opinions. (Except Korn and Limp Bizkit.)
Click to expand...

I thought about Daft Punk and thought I’d be laughed off the boards. With the rise in popularity of “Electronic Music” (are we sure it’s not a close second to Rap/ Hip Hop in terms of current cultural impact/popularity?) Daft Punk, whose Homework/Around The World pre-dates OK Computer by 5 months might be a strong contender here.
 
The Commish said:
I thought about Daft Punk and thought I’d be laughed off the boards. With the rise in popularity of “Electronic Music” (are we sure it’s not a close second to Rap/ Hip Hop in terms of current cultural impact/popularity?) Daft Punk, whose Homework/Around The World pre-dates OK Computer by 5 months might be a strong contender here.
Click to expand...

I'd argue that groups like Portishead, Massive Attack and Prodigy all did way more for mainstreaming electronic music than Daft Punk did. They just took it to another level.
 
TCell said:
I meant this as an "at the bar" discussion. I don't know that there's really a "best" as it's all subjective. No wrong opinions (well, except Nickelback and Hoobastank.)

When I just said that Rock was a genre in decline, I don't mean "Rock is dead", there's lots of great rock bands out there today, just that it means less culturally than it did in the 90s, whereas Hip Hop as kind of taken it's place as the musical genre of popular music.

Do they need to be active? Not necessarily. And it's hard to tell with some bands that have just faded away *cough* Pearl Jam *cough*

As for other bands that folks have mentioned:

Nine Inch Nails - Yeah, definitely in the discussion. Is NIN really a band or just Trent? Because if you consider Trent and Atticus Ross' soundtrack work as NIN, you could probably make an argument for them as #1.

Beastie Boys - Are they a band? Sure, but the part that disqualifies them (to me): Their prime years are not from the last 25 years. Paul's Boutique came out 31 years ago. If it’s the last 35 years, they’re probably #1.

Wilco - I love Wilco and think they are amazing. Also, they are the genre-defining Suburban Dad rock band. Which might make them higher on the list in terms of musical importance.

Tribe Called Quest - Sure. Similar to Beastie Boys, (IMO) their best albums were from 1990 - 1993, which is over 25 years ago.

Flaming Lips - Hadn't thought of them. I don't think they're impactful enough, but if they are to you, why not?

GY!BE - Popularity? Also took a 10 year hiatus.

The National - I love them, but will they have any impact on music going forward? (Spoon and Death Cab probably falls in this category too.)

Nic Cave & The Bad Seeds - Yeah, why not? Lasting impact and popularity though, idk.

Some others to consider:
Daft Punk - Are they a band? I think they could be in the Top 5 if you think they're a band.
Queens of the Stone Age? (Probably should be higher up than I would've thought)
The Strokes? White Stripes? Arcade Fire? Animal Collective? (Seem too hipster, and of a moment, but maybe?)
Sigur Ros? (Probably not popular enough)
Foo Fighters? Dave Matthews Band? Coldplay? (I just threw up in my mouth a little with all these bands. And I like them.)

Ween? (Are they mainstream popular though?)

Maybe Lady Antebellum?

Again, no wrong opinions. (Except Korn and Limp Bizkit.)
Click to expand...
I agree about rock music. My feeling is there has always been certain style of music that is the most dominant of certain eras. Rock music in one form or another dominated the cultural landscape of popular music from the late mid to late 60s thru the mid to late 90s. Since then it’s been Hip-hop and Hip-hop culture has dominated. It doesn’t mean rock will cease to exist it doesn’t carry the same cultural cache it once did.
 
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The Commish said:
The list does change if we are talking "Active" "Bands" Only. I had included "active and defunct". Also, keep in mind this was a gut reaction list off the Top of my head. Radiohead was already mentioned and I left them off because of it. They clearly belong on the list and are probably #1 despite the Hip Hop coefficient.

The criteria was: combination of popularity, longevity, critical acclaim, technical ability, and lasting impact on music.I don't want to stir the pot, but I will say there are a couple of these that, outside of our N&G taste bubble, the Roots lose some ground on over others on the list.

I almost left GSYBE off the list, and thought about adding The National. Honestly, The Roots might settle into the ranking/list right along side them, they are a be a good comp in my mind for both of those given the stated criteria.

In a further effort to avoid an argument (as this is not the Hot Take Thread) I will simply say I respect your opinion regarding what you find subjectively "interesting", but I have to disagree regarding "Rock" (whatever that term is supposed to mean here), then or now, being more or less "interesting" and your opinons regarding Wilco (A.M. having been released in 1995).

Finally, the 1992 classic "Check Your Head" would like a moment with your opinion that the Beastie Boys were not "A Band". Not that I necessarily agree that Rolling Stone is the definitive authority on this issue but:
www.rollingstone.com

Boys to Men: The Beastie Boys

Five years ago the Beasties were seen as a novelty. Now the rap world is taking them seriously
www.rollingstone.com www.rollingstone.com

If we assume your arguments regarding the Hip Hop coefficient are accurate and valid and we are not limited to "Active" acts - I might have a very strong argument that the list starts with The Beastie Boys at #1.
Click to expand...
I love Beastie Boys and Tribe. Two of my favorites of all time. I just assumed that since neither any longer exist than that would disqualify them.

Wilco is great and for me they made a string of brillant and innovative albums from Being There thru Sky Blue Sky since then there albums have been pleasant (I would would say that that comparison probably mirrors The Roots nicely to that extent).

Regardless, thoughtful music discussion feels like a fresh of breath air, I really do appreciate it (and all of you too!)
 
Does anyone think RHCP deserve a place in this canon? Their arguably best album doesn’t fall within the last 25 year range, and yet they hit their marks for just about all the other criteria. Popular, been around forever, pretty consistently acclaimed, can count the likes of Flea and Frusciante among their ranks for the technical chops, and made a sizable impact musically. I struggle to say they deserve to be called the best band of the last quarter century, but they wouldn’t be out of place in a Top __ Bands list though.

And I’ll take the L on saying the Beasties weren’t a band. When I picture them mentally, it isn’t playing instruments, it’s jumping around like maniacs, but of course they could do both.
 
My vote on the best band of the last 25 years is Radiohead and I don't think it is close. That buys you everything from The Bends onward.

I think 2nd place is the more interesting arguement. Arcade Fire needed probably one more great album, The National needed an album that was more ubiquitous than any of theirs were, Wilco's early career greatness faded a little into archetypal Dad rock. I don't know where I'd come down right now.

On the Essentials topic, Bitte Orca arrived today. Sound of the vinyl and packaging were great (sleeve is nice and thick). The print and cocktail were the definition of half-assed. Glad the things that matter were well done, but the VMP component seemed phoned in.
 
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