Political Discussion

BjorgenFjorgen said:
Buddy, how much worse could it be? 30,000+ Palestinians dead, Israeli soldiers proudly broadcasting their war crimes on TikTok, funding for aid suspended by almost every western nation, Israeli civilians blocking aid trucks from getting in, almost all infrastructure destroyed, journalists and academics systematically assassinated along with their families, soldiers shooting medical workers and patients inside and outside of hospitals, and 2 million displaced and on the brink of starvation, while the U.S. denies it all and vetoes every U.N. Security Council motion trying to get a ceasefire.
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Sadly, it can almost always get worse.
 
BjorgenFjorgen said:
Buddy, how much worse could it be? 30,000+ Palestinians dead, Israeli soldiers proudly broadcasting their war crimes on TikTok, funding for aid suspended by almost every western nation, Israeli civilians blocking aid trucks from getting in, almost all infrastructure destroyed, journalists and academics systematically assassinated along with their families, soldiers shooting medical workers and patients inside and outside of hospitals, and 2 million displaced and on the brink of starvation, while the U.S. denies it all and vetoes every U.N. Security Council motion trying to get a ceasefire.
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It could be much worse. Not only for the Palestinians, but Ukraine, Muslims in the US, anyone who has opposed DJT to date. I could go on.

The Israel issue is tough. The US needs to support its ally, but unfortunately that said ally is also controlled by a sociopath who is clinging to power in order to stay out of jail. Sound familiar. Netenyahu benefits from the chaos and killing on both sides.

Biden administrations position will change if Israel doesn’t stop what it’s doing. The situation is delicate. If US came out strong against Israel to start it might have encouraged others in the area to act against Israel. Not to mention be really hypocritical given the US reaction to 9/11.
 
ayayrawn said:
I think that while one party is completely floundering/off the deep end while the other is incompetent is a great time to discuss policy/theory.
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I love a good policy discussion. So much so that I have a Master’s degree in the topic. That said, while the Democratic Party is not perfect, far from it, it’s not incompetent. It struggles to please a diverse constituency and an overall fickle public.
 
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Indymisanthrope said:
Swap those numbers. Worse.
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Do you think Biden will make any serious attempt to stop the Rafah offensive or the continuing creep into the West Bank. The attack Israel is proposing on Rafah is a horrific abuse of power and will be a a catastrophe.

Israel certainly hasn’t seemed put off by his mild warnings and massive funding so far.
 
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RenegadeMonster said:
apple.news

The White House Warns Cars Made in China Could Unleash Chaos on US Highways — WIRED

As Chinese automakers prepare to launch in the US, the White House is investigating whether cars made in China could pose a national security threat.
apple.news apple.news

So, cars made in China are a national security risk?
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it’s not the cars so much as tech used to control the cars. It’s a reasonable concern. TBH, The government should be just as concerned about needy Alt Right adjacent South Africans with a messiah complex that also have unchecked control of the tech used in cars (and more concerning) satellites.
 
www.marketwatch.com

Here’s what Gen Z wants employers to know about how they work

Gen Z’s distrust of institutions puts it on a collision course with management.
www.marketwatch.com www.marketwatch.com

I saw this article being discussed elsewhere and one common theme I saw from Boomers was that Gen Z is going to get a serious wake up call. And this mindset in the work place is only going to get them fired and hopefully they will learn.

Many went on to post about how their employers have fired Gen Z people over posts on social media calling out their employer for prioritizing profits over what is right and ethical.

I strongly believe in what Gen Z is trying to do and bring attention too. I wonder if it will help bring about change or just lead to more frequent job changes for Gen Z?
 
Joe Mac said:
Do you think Biden will make any serious attempt to stop the Rafah offensive or the continuing creep into the West Bank. The attack Israel is proposing on Rafah is a horrific abuse of power and will be a a catastrophe.

Israel certainly hasn’t seemed put off by his mild warnings and massive funding so far.
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I don't know.

I was in a mood last night, had a bit too much to drink, and shouldn't have mouthed off the way I did. My point isn't to diminish the gravity of the situation. It's a horrific nightmare. At the same time, I think the human capacity for depravity is only outmatched by our creativity. There are, I believe, no limits to the suffering we can inflict on each other. That's why I bristle a bit at statements that there's no scenario that could be worse than the one we're in, because (I believe) that sentiment counterintuitively makes people manufacture even worse scenarios in their minds and start down the path of thinking that, well, relative to this other imaginary outcome, what's happening isn't as bad.

But clearly, it's very bad. We don't have to affix any superlatives to it to agree on that point.

The Israel problem must be reckoned with. But I'm not confident that history will look kindly on us if, having withdrawn our support from an ally to whom we made a promise, their adversaries eliminate them. History may not look kindly on us no matter what we do at this point.

I think there are likely hundreds of factors at play for why the US is on this path. I don't think that a lust for genocide is among them, personally. What I would like to believe is that this is a situation in which people with more strategic vision than me have concluded that there are no 'good' choices now that do not result in outcomes that are even worse. Worse for whom, and worse how? Valid questions.

I'm not a game theorist, or a Middle East policy expert. I just want to be clear that my thoughts about why my country's leaders are continuing to let this happen are not an attempt to justify it, but to understand it.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
I don't know.

I was in a mood last night, had a bit too much to drink, and shouldn't have mouthed off the way I did. My point isn't to diminish the gravity of the situation. It's a horrific nightmare. At the same time, I think the human capacity for depravity is only outmatched by our creativity. There are, I believe, no limits to the suffering we can inflict on each other. That's why I bristle a bit at statements that there's no scenario that could be worse than the one we're in, because (I believe) that sentiment counterintuitively makes people manufacture even worse scenarios in their minds and start down the path of thinking that, well, relative to this other imaginary outcome, what's happening isn't as bad.

But clearly, it's very bad. We don't have to affix any superlatives to it to agree on that point.

The Israel problem must be reckoned with. But I'm not confident that history will look kindly on us if, having withdrawn our support from an ally to whom we made a promise, their adversaries eliminate them. History may not look kindly on us no matter what we do at this point.

I think there are likely hundreds of factors at play for why the US is on this path. I don't think that a lust for genocide is among them, personally. What I would like to believe is that this is a situation in which people with more strategic vision than me have concluded that there are no 'good' choices now that do not result in outcomes that are even worse. Worse for whom, and worse how? Valid questions.

I'm not a game theorist, or a Middle East policy expert. I just want to be clear that my thoughts about why my country's leaders are continuing to let this happen are not an attempt to justify it, but to understand it.
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Perhaps. But it does feel like every option we, as combined western nations, over the last hundred years has made this situation worse. We’ve allowed white European settlers to invade and take over a Arab nation based on biblical text and supported it based on guilt and wanting a sphere of influence in that geographical area to the point where there is an effective theocracy which seems to continually strive to wipe out their neighbours by a combination of creeping illegal settlement and military might. Then out of the other sides of our mouths we then severely criticise and crucify the desperate Palestinian for all acts of violence in opposition to this and exacerbate this by legitimising massive military action in response to it.

As someone living in the country I do this all feels depressingly familiar and wrong.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
That's why I bristle a bit at statements that there's no scenario that could be worse than the one we're in, because (I believe) that sentiment counterintuitively makes people manufacture even worse scenarios in their minds and start down the path of thinking that, well, relative to this other imaginary outcome, what's happening isn't as bad.

But clearly, it's very bad. We don't have to affix any superlatives to it to agree on that point.

The Israel problem must be reckoned with. But I'm not confident that history will look kindly on us if, having withdrawn our support from an ally to whom we made a promise, their adversaries eliminate them. History may not look kindly on us no matter what we do at this point.

I think there are likely hundreds of factors at play for why the US is on this path. I don't think that a lust for genocide is among them, personally. What I would like to believe is that this is a situation in which people with more strategic vision than me have concluded that there are no 'good' choices now that do not result in outcomes that are even worse. Worse for whom, and worse how? Valid questions.

I'm not a game theorist, or a Middle East policy expert. I just want to be clear that my thoughts about why my country's leaders are continuing to let this happen are not an attempt to justify it, but to understand it.
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Well, yes, it's been quite apparent for a very long time that the U.S. is continuing to allow and to fund this because Israel plays a fundamental strategic role in American foreign policy in the Middle East. I don't think anyone is saying the U.S. has a "lust for genocide," only that it is clearly willing to allow it in service of empire. Obviously history isn't looking kindly on the U.S. or Israel! It's not looking kindly on it now!
 
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