Political Discussion

RenegadeMonster said:
Nope, none of it is true.

Remember in 2016 where they said a liberal on the SCOTUS would be a danger to our democracy? And that is why they must block Obama's nominee and wait until after the election to act?

Liberals also mean the end of capitalism if you listen to them. They will take away the American Dream and personal choice.
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Which is why it makes absolutely no sense to include the question “will Democrats doing X cause Republicans to behave in a more radicalized manner in the future” in your list of considerations when contemplating whether or not the Democrats should do X. In a hypothetical future where a Biden administration enacts no meaningful structural reforms, raises taxes on the wealthy and corporations to a level that’s still lower than when Trump took office, and nominates a Merrick Garland type justice to replace a hounded-into-retirement Breyer, conservatives will be running out the old Flight 93 Election hysteria four years from now, arguing that they may not personally like Tucker Carlson but a second Biden term would mean the end of the Republic. You might as well actually accomplish some things.
 
I don’t have anything to say about the substance of the Trump tax story that wasn’t already said in the classic BronzeHammer tweet, but two thoughts on the context around it:

1. The story seems to be getting a lot of attention for being very well reported, and I’m sure that’s true but if you step back a bit this doesn’t seem like a great look for the Times. This isn’t a matter of the Biden campaign leaking them some oppo at a critical moment - this is a story they‘ve been reporting out for a while. I suppose it’s possible that they coincidentally happened to get in position to run it on the Sunday before the first debate, but I for one am not buying that, and I’m not someone who already considers them to be the a Enemy Of The People. Which isn’t to say that they should be conducting themselves in a manner that is intended to satisfy those folks, but there are still people who care about the existence of national news sources that do not act as extensions of partisan politics. When people look back on the (shameful, IMO) history of the Times’ behavior during the Trump era, I think this is going to be seen as another example of them not really covering themselves in glory.

2. That being said, this does kind of make me excited to see what bullets are left in the chamber. It seemed obvious to me that the whole “Trump thinks dead soliders are losers” thing was just an appetizer, but the fact that the tax story that we’ve been building up to for five years now seems like it might not be the real hammer makes me intrigued. My money remains on “hot mic Apprentice n-word tape” as the one we get next month.
 
Space Wanderer said:
1. The story seems to be getting a lot of attention for being very well reported, and I’m sure that’s true but if you step back a bit this doesn’t seem like a great look for the Times. This isn’t a matter of the Biden campaign leaking them some oppo at a critical moment - this is a story they‘ve been reporting out for a while. I suppose it’s possible that they coincidentally happened to get in position to run it on the Sunday before the first debate, but I for one am not buying that, and I’m not someone who already considers them to be the a Enemy Of The People. Which isn’t to say that they should be conducting themselves in a manner that is intended to satisfy those folks, but there are still people who care about the existence of national news sources that do not act as extensions of partisan politics. When people look back on the (shameful, IMO) history of the Times’ behavior during the Trump era, I think this is going to be seen as another example of them not really covering themselves in glory.
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I've been thinking about this too. While the timing of the debate (and October in general) definitely can't be ignored, part of me wonders if it's as much a post-Ginsburg run as it is a pre-debate one. Any chance that perhaps they actually planned on running it later, but in light of the ACB nom they felt like they needed to get what they had out in the open? The two things aren't *directly* connected, but with all of Trump's recent comments about making sure SCOTUS is fully staffed to rule in his favor on the election results, maybe it's germane to get a fuller picture of just why he may be so hellbent on that? It's not the Occam's Razor explanation, but it would make me feel better.

In any event, at least it wasn't reporting that was hoarded in order to sell a book. That alone places it ahead of a lot of the revelations of this presidency.
Space Wanderer said:
My money remains on “hot mic Apprentice n-word tape” as the one we get next month.
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Now that The Apprentice is directly and explicitly implicated in selling the lie that Trump is a successful businessman, Mark Burnett needs to answer some questions anyway.
 
I guess I'm confused about why you guys are acting like the tax story actually changes anything, I don't see it. Perhaps I'm cyncial with everything that's has come and gone news wise in the last 4 years, but I'm not sure what about this is a bigger deal than anything else none of the right cared about.
 
dhodo said:
I guess I'm confused about why you guys are acting like the tax story actually changes anything, I don't see it. Perhaps I'm cyncial with everything that's has come and gone news wise in the last 4 years, but I'm not sure what about this is a bigger deal than anything else none of the right cared about.
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The right is a lost cause. This is about motivating blue turnout.
 
debianlinux said:
The right is a lost cause. This is about motivating blue turnout.
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You really think this was a surprise to anyone? There have been hypothetical discussions about both sides assuming he paid $0 taxes since before he was elected. This is proof those assumptions are correct, but when even his supporters figured it was true already, so what?

Of all the stuff he has said and done in the last 4 years, the motivator of the tired old fact that rich people weasel out of taxes seems almost quaint.
 
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dhodo said:
I guess I'm confused about why you guys are acting like the tax story actually changes anything, I don't see it. Perhaps I'm cyncial with everything that's has come and gone news wise in the last 4 years, but I'm not sure what about this is a bigger deal than anything else none of the right cared about.
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This. A vast swath of Trump's base are single issues voters, and that issue is hurt people they don't like. Nothing is going to change that. Nothing has been done about his crimes or affected his approval rating up to this point, it's not going to happen.
 
dhodo said:
I guess I'm confused about why you guys are acting like the tax story actually changes anything, I don't see it. Perhaps I'm cyncial with everything that's has come and gone news wise in the last 4 years, but I'm not sure what about this is a bigger deal than anything else none of the right cared about.
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Don’t get me wrong - I don’t disagree with you, and that was the premise of the disclaimer I put at the top of my post. If there’s one thing that’s been made clear over the last four years - and particularly in 2020 - it’s that public opinion of Trump is pretty much set in stone.

HOWEVER, the following things are also true:

1. Given the insanely low margins by which he won the key EC states in 2016, stories or arguments that appeal to or move a statistically insignificant (on a national scale) number of voters could still have a big impact. People are weird, and it appears that the specific people who put Trump over the top last time are pretty much the weirdest of all (in terms of what makes them vote the way they do), so you never know what’s going to work for any given voter.
2. Stories like this are important and interesting for reasons not directly related to who votes how in the upcoming election.
 
Space Wanderer said:
Don’t get me wrong - I don’t disagree with you, and that was the premise of the disclaimer I put at the top of my post. If there’s one thing that’s been made clear over the last four years - and particularly in 2020 - it’s that public opinion of Trump is pretty much set in stone.

HOWEVER, the following things are also true:

1. Given the insanely low margins by which he won the key EC states in 2016, stories or arguments that appeal to or move a statistically insignificant (on a national scale) number of voters could still have a big impact. People are weird, and it appears that the specific people who put Trump over the top last time are pretty much the weirdest of all (in terms of what makes them vote the way they do), so you never know what’s going to work for any given voter.
2. Stories like this are important and interesting for reasons not directly related to who votes how in the upcoming election.
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I wasn't saying it wasn't worth knowing or reporting, just that the questions about when the NYT chose to release the story would be a lot more interesting to me if I thought it would have a large impact.
 
dhodo said:
I guess I'm confused about why you guys are acting like the tax story actually changes anything, I don't see it. Perhaps I'm cyncial with everything that's has come and gone news wise in the last 4 years, but I'm not sure what about this is a bigger deal than anything else none of the right cared about.
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I think it’s a death by a thousand cuts type thing. Looking at polling, Biden is up by approximately 5-10 points in polling averages with very few undecideds remaining to win over. If Biden can maximize his voter turnout (especially while early voting is currently happening) it only helps his chances. The constant stream of awful stories (the Military, His Taxes, Supreme Court, COVID, Bad economy, social unrest, etc.) isn’t going to win over any of his cult members but maybe some of it strikes a chord with enough voters who just want to simply get past the daily barrage of bullshit during this already very stressful year. I don’t think the taxes are a smoking gun (though they really should be) but I think it reinforces the bigger narrative that Trump is a fraud and a crook.
 
The Trumpers at my work have three stances on the taxes issue:
1. He's not a pedophile like Biden
2. He's donated more to charity than any president ever
3. My taxes are lower than ever, keep up the good work Mr President

It's driving me crazy, and so hard to ignore.
 
ranbalam said:
The Trumpers at my work have three stances on the taxes issue:
1. He's not a pedophile like Biden
2. He's donated more to charity than any president ever
3. My taxes are lower than ever, keep up the good work Mr President

It's driving me crazy, and so hard to ignore.
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It’d be funny if it weren’t so pathetic. Trump Stan’s are something else.
 
KenKaniff said:
How is Joe Biden a pedophile?
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Q’anon my dude. According to “Q” the Democratic Party is run by a cabal of Satanic pedo-cannibalistic Elites (they use a chemical that is generated in the blood of children when children are ritualistically murdered to stay young, duh). Thank heavens God has ordained Trump their savior and he is just biding his time (I don’t know why he’s waiting for his 2nd term but I am sure he has really rock solid reason) to round up all these Satanist and throw them in Gitmo where they will be publicly executed with the help of JFK, Jr. who (surprise!) faked his own death and is hiding out in Pittsburgh for some reason.
 
KenKaniff said:
How is Joe Biden a pedophile?
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Here's an actual (unedited) reply from my coworker to another co-worker's post about Trump and his taxes.

so you would rather vote for a pedopihle , liar , crook , I will be a Trumper all day long , we only get to pick one retard out of 2 so there is that , we are going to be stuck with one of them , but it's not going to be a pedophile and have my taxes raised to 48 % , and the bad thing is , they aren't even trying to hide it !

And then this

Haven't watched biden grope kids on T.V. , havent you seen the expressions on these kids face realy and on national T.V. have him fired or your not getting the 6 billion ? come on ! Goggle it , you tube it , its every where , the very good one of him groping a little blonde girls running his thumbs over her boobies , we that video is frozen now , they claim it's been hacked

I almost feel bad for him. Almost.
 
ranbalam said:
Here's an actual (unedited) reply from my coworker to another co-worker's post about Trump and his taxes.

so you would rather vote for a pedopihle , liar , crook , I will be a Trumper all day long , we only get to pick one retard out of 2 so there is that , we are going to be stuck with one of them , but it's not going to be a pedophile and have my taxes raised to 48 % , and the bad thing is , they aren't even trying to hide it !

And then this

Haven't watched biden grope kids on T.V. , havent you seen the expressions on these kids face realy and on national T.V. have him fired or your not getting the 6 billion ? come on ! Goggle it , you tube it , its every where , the very good one of him groping a little blonde girls running his thumbs over her boobies , we that video is frozen now , they claim it's been hacked

I almost feel bad for him. Almost.
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I am glad I don’t have to put up with that nonsense in my life on a regular basis.
 
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