Political Discussion

Also most people are not engaged with politics and are low information voters. The average person is casually informed by cable and local news about elections and politics. People know of Biden because of Obama. Your average voter may have only heard Bernie being associated with Socialism and Castro so they’ll choose the opposite in Trump. So I think that’s why Biden won in states where he barely campaigned. He has great name recognition and Bernie does not. We need someone who people know and generally liked when they were VP. Bernie is a big ask of the average voter.

I love Bernie and it would have been nice to see him as the President but his movement goes on. We need his supporters to push the DNC further left and we need the overall strongest candidate to defeat Trump. That’s the #1 goal now.
 
Btsvinylfarm said:
The Warren thing is an excuse. Bernie had a bad night. Period, plain and simple. Biden barely campaigned in some of the states he won in
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It’s not an excuse it’s a contributing factor. Yes people will blow it out of proportion. Just like they will with the Bernie bro thing (again a factor) as well as the Dem establishment organizing the establishment vote.

Yes I’m really surprised turnout isn't the same as 2018. It’s worrisome. I think it’s about the botched Impeachment, Muller, and Russia Russia Russia.

I was thinking about the impeachment last night and kind of think Dems shot themselves in the foot by protecting Biden. They wanted their centrist candidate for 2020. The Ukraine stuff is gonna be a factor in the general. Dems just swept it under the rug.
 
wokeupnew said:
Also most people are not engaged with politics and are low information voters. The average person is casually informed by cable and local news about elections and politics. People know of Biden because of Obama. Your average voter may have only heard Bernie being associated with Socialism and Castro so they’ll choose the opposite in Trump. So I think that’s why Biden won in states where he barely campaigned. He has great name recognition and Bernie does not. We need someone who people know and generally liked when they were VP. Bernie is a big ask of the average voter.

I love Bernie and it would have been nice to see him as the President but his movement goes on. We need his supporters to push the DNC further left and we need the overall strongest candidate to defeat Trump. That’s the #1 goal now.
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You're the best.
 
wokeupnew said:
Also most people are not engaged with politics and are low information voters. The average person is casually informed by cable and local news about elections and politics. People know of Biden because of Obama. Your average voter may have only heard Bernie being associated with Socialism and Castro so they’ll choose the opposite in Trump. So I think that’s why Biden won in states where he barely campaigned. He has great name recognition and Bernie does not. We need someone who people know and generally liked when they were VP. Bernie is a big ask of the average voter.
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Yes - so true

Which is why if you engage people not from a place of empathy but from a place of judgement they find it hard to get on your team. People who want social ideals and policies need to take a step back and look in the mirror and tell themselves that it isn't just about being "correct" on the issues it's about how you engage with people.
 
Dtknuckles said:
Yes I’m really surprised turnout isn't the same as 2018. It’s worrisome. I think it’s about the botched Impeachment, Muller, and Russia Russia Russia.

I was thinking about the impeachment last night and kind of think Dems shot themselves in the foot by protecting Biden. They wanted their centrist candidate for 2020. The Ukraine stuff is gonna be a factor in the general. Dems just swept it under the rug.
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Hard disagree with all of this.

Impeachment wasn't botched. Trump had more conviction votes than any President in history. It's he only time a member of the Impeached President's party has voted to convict. Support for both the inquiry and impeachment remained strong throughout. And it helped throw the Ukraine stuff to the wayside of a lot of people. It prevented it from being the next "but her emails".

As far as turnout goes, the numbers I've seen show turnout overall was strong (in VA, it nearly doubled 2016 primary turnout). So I don't think this theory holds.
 
wokeupnew said:
Also most people are not engaged with politics and are low information voters. The average person is casually informed by cable and local news about elections and politics. People know of Biden because of Obama. Your average voter may have only heard Bernie being associated with Socialism and Castro so they’ll choose the opposite in Trump. So I think that’s why Biden won in states where he barely campaigned. He has great name recognition and Bernie does not. We need someone who people know and generally liked when they were VP. Bernie is a big ask of the average voter.

I love Bernie and it would have been nice to see him as the President but his movement goes on. We need his supporters to push the DNC further left and we need the overall strongest candidate to defeat Trump. That’s the #1 goal now.
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One of the things I have heard from young voters who did not go out and vote is "this is the primary election, it's not the presidential election. It doesn't really matter."

It does matter. I think the primary election is much more important than the presidential election. Especially in states that are clear blue or red states. Because in the presidential election the outcome is known. The state will either be blue or red whether your vote or not. People become numb and feel like their vote really does not matter. But in the primary election your vote has a much greater say. It can help choose who that candidate is in the general election.

I'm very sad to hear young people don't really understand this. And did not come out voting in numbers.


Biden also had the perfect storm to win yesterday.
  • Amy K dropped out and endorsed Biden
  • Pete B dropped out and endorsed Biden
  • Bloomberg got nowhere near the votes that were expected after his high polling last week
  • Young voter turnout was very low
  • Suburban home owning college educated voters turned out in higher numbers than expected because of fear that Bernie could win this
 
wokeupnew said:
He has great name recognition and Bernie does not. We need someone who people know and generally liked when they were VP. Bernie is a big ask of the average voter.
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It's disingenuous to say Bernie has a name recognition issue. He's one of the biggest names in politics. Who and where are the people that don't know who he is?
 
jaycee said:
Which is why if you engage people not from a place of empathy but from a place of judgement they find it hard to get on your team. People who want social ideals and policies need to take a step back and look in the mirror and tell themselves that it isn't just about being "correct" on the issues it's about how you engage with people.
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Should anyone wish to have a look at a controlled test run of this (entirely correct) statement, they're welcome to look at the activities of the Labour Party in the UK leading up to the General Election we had late last year. Spoiler; the current Government of the UK is not a Labour one.
 
Btsvinylfarm said:
It's disingenuous to say Bernie has a name recognition issue. He's one of the biggest names in politics. Who and where are the people that don't know who he is?
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People know who Bernie is but what was being said was that people associate him with Communism and Authoritarian regimes first and his policy ideals second. That's a negative name recognition issue, and it's totally fair to say that Biden is more recognized than Bernie, particularly in African American communities and with Union Voters.
 
jaycee said:
People know who Bernie is but what was being said was that people associate him with Communism and Authoritarian regimes first and his policy ideals second. That's a negative name recognition issue, and it's totally fair to say that Biden is more recognized than Bernie, particularly in African American communities and with Union Voters.
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Hmm, I didn't know Bernie was still being associated with Communism. I thought they have moved passed that and have moved on to Extremist and socialist.

But yeah, people thought just that. Bernie was an Extremist, a Kook.

One thing I don't get is people never describe Bernie sanders as having experience. Not once have I heard that. Yet he's been in the Senate for what, around 30 years?

Apparently only the face of the establishment career politician can have experience.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
One of the things I have heard from young voters who did not go out and vote is "this is the primary election, it's not the presidential election. It doesn't really matter."
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This has always been the case, which is partially why the idea that Sanders was/is actually exciting young people was so enticing... but traditions hold true. America has a voter rights and engagement issue that isn't new.

RenegadeMonster said:
Hmm, I didn't know Bernie was still being associated with Communism. I thought they have moved passed that and have moved on to Extremist and socialist.

But yeah, people thought just that. Bernie was an Extremist, a Kook.
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The security guard at the front desk this morning literally told me he was happy "that commie didn't win last night" and he was "thanking God" he didn't have to vote for Bloomberg
 
wokeupnew said:
Also most people are not engaged with politics and are low information voters. The average person is casually informed by cable and local news about elections and politics. People know of Biden because of Obama. Your average voter may have only heard Bernie being associated with Socialism and Castro so they’ll choose the opposite in Trump. So I think that’s why Biden won in states where he barely campaigned. He has great name recognition and Bernie does not. We need someone who people know and generally liked when they were VP. Bernie is a big ask of the average voter.

I love Bernie and it would have been nice to see him as the President but his movement goes on. We need his supporters to push the DNC further left and we need the overall strongest candidate to defeat Trump. That’s the #1 goal now.
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100% this. That's why I use examples from my in laws and parents because they're Democrats and more closely to the demographic of the average voter. I try to see things from their viewpoint as opposed to me who me who reads the news all day at work.
 
Btsvinylfarm said:
Hard disagree with all of this.

Impeachment wasn't botched. Trump had more conviction votes than any President in history. It's he only time a member of the Impeached President's party has voted to convict. Support for both the inquiry and impeachment remained strong throughout. And it helped throw the Ukraine stuff to the wayside of a lot of people. It prevented it from being the next "but her emails".

As far as turnout goes, the numbers I've seen show turnout overall was strong (in VA, it nearly doubled 2016 primary turnout). So I don't think this theory holds.
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I think strong is an overstatement. A slim majority 54% disagreed with the result.

fivethirtyeight.com

Fewer Americans Think Impeachment Will Hurt Trump’s Reelection Chances

The impeachment trial is over. And with the exception of Republican Sen. Mitt Romney, who voted to convict President Trump on one charge, the president has been…
fivethirtyeight.com fivethirtyeight.com

and the way Americans viewed the trial was very partisan.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
Hmm, I didn't know Bernie was still being associated with Communism. I thought they have moved passed that and have moved on to Extremist and socialist.

But yeah, people thought just that. Bernie was an Extremist, a Kook.

One thing I don't get is people never describe Bernie sanders as having experience. Not once have I heard that. Yet he's been in the Senate for what, around 30 years?

Apparently only the face of the establishment career politician can have experience.
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You're up against people who still believe Obama is a Muslim. You're never going to convince them Bernie isn't a Communist.
 
Phaneronic said:
Question: Do we think Warren is intentionally spoilong Bernie, and if so, is it just because she thinks he slighted her, or am I missing something?

I'd like Warren to be president, I just don't think she'll magically get the nomination at the DNC, and this is just the feeling I'm getting.
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Personally I'm not sure how much of a "spoiler" Warren is. Bernie is not necessarily the second choice for Warren supporters (my five-second internet research shows that as of late January Bernie seemed to be the second choice of a plurality of Warren supporters; I'm not sure that holds up now that Pete and Amy have dropped out).
 
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