Phono Cartridges - Your favorites and least favorites?

[Angsty]

I think this just talked me out of the Garrott Brothers. The Sumiko Pearl isn’t anything to brag about and the only thing good about the $99 Vessel is the price. Yes, the Vessel can be upgraded with a different stylus, but at $230 and up, I think I’d stick with safer bets.

I love the Hana MCs. Their MMs that I’ve heard aren’t remotely in the same class. Same difference as between a Dodge Dart and a Hellcat. Same manufacturer, but worlds apart.

I don't necessarily come to the same conclusion. I think the generators are all the same basic design, but it's possible that each downstream firm has tweaks to it. Additionally, I don't think all the styli and cantilevers are sourced the same across downstream firms. It's probably in the outsourcing specs and the styli/cantilevers where they distinguish themselves. There has been a long running debate on if the Sumiko Pearl and the Shelter 201 were the same cartridge or not, because they look so similar. I think it was settled that both Sumiko and Shelter sourced the generator from Excel, but the specs/performance of the cartridges were different because of the different tweaks applied.

It seems pretty hard to me to make an affordable cartridge without either large volumes (Ortofon, AT, Grado) or outsourcing some assemblies (Shelter, Sumiko, Garrott). What's more interesting to me is how the price points depart with some of those downstream decisions, especially in the stylus. Really, how much more expensive is it to manufacture a Shibata than a Fine Line? I'm sure that supply chain issues come into play as there are not likely to be a large number of places that can even cut a Shibata stylus.

Still, I agree that the Hana MCs are in a different class than those MMs. Excel saved their best stuff for themselves after all these years!

 

[Jbraswell]

I don’t have a spectrum. Sound is really good to my ear so I'll leave it at that for now. Just wanted to understand the calculation when looking at different carts in the future.

 

[Angsty]

Looking for setup tips. Got a Nagaoka MP-300 to set up on my PLX 1000. In the past, I’ve used the distance from stylus to headshell collar as the key setup parameter as per the user manual. Is that good enough for proper alignment or should I use my MoFi GeoDisc? I also do a separate azimuth alignment with an acrylic ruler block.

I’d always heard that Pioneer uses a proprietary alignment whereas the GeoDisc is Baerwald.

 

[HiFi Guy]

Looking for setup tips. Got a Nagaoka MP-300 to set up on my PLX 1000. In the past, I’ve used the distance from stylus to headshell collar as the key setup parameter as per the user manual. Is that good enough for proper alignment or should I use my MoFi GeoDisc? I also do a separate azimuth alignment with an acrylic ruler block.

I’d always heard that Pioneer uses a proprietary alignment whereas the GeoDisc is Baerwald.

If you are using the factory headshell, my experience was that the cartridge couldn’t come far enough forward to achieve Baerwald. No such issues with the Jelco HS-20, which is what I use. Although Jelco is now defunct, their headshells are still available from a couple of retailers- one in Canada and a cartridge specialist in Hong Kong.

The HS-20 adds azimuth adjustment as well. The Pioneer was off a fair amount.

Pioneer’s alignment is closest to Stevenson, but not identical. They tried to copy the Technics alignment but had to account for the 2mm difference in length of the arm. I used the Geodisc with the Pioneer when I had it with good results.

 

[HiFi Guy]

After getting only a few albums in with my Grado ME+, I’m kicking myself. I knew the difference between playing a mono record with a stereo cartridge vs having a true mono cartridge. I should have done this years ago. I’ll never listen to a mono record with a stereo cartridge again.

 

[marshall]

After getting only a few albums in with my Grado ME+, I’m kicking myself. I knew the difference between playing a mono record with a stereo cartridge vs having a true mono cartridge. I should have done this years ago. I’ll never listen to a mono record with a stereo cartridge again.

Finally got it all dialed in?! Glad it worked out.

 

[zombie.modernist]

After getting only a few albums in with my Grado ME+, I’m kicking myself. I knew the difference between playing a mono record with a stereo cartridge vs having a true mono cartridge. I should have done this years ago. I’ll never listen to a mono record with a stereo cartridge again.

Have you tried any really old mono pressings with that yet? I’d be curious to hear how it performs with those cut with a true mono cutter head.

 

[HiFi Guy]

Have you tried any really old mono pressings with that yet? I’d be curious to hear how it performs with those cut with a true mono cutter head.

I have. A couple of pressings from 1961-62. It’s brilliant.

These albums are NM- condition. No surface noise whatsoever. Obviously, no left/right effect. Tons of front/back though. I expected a most of the sonic image to be between the speakers. That’s not what I got. I have an expansive sonic image that goes speaker to speaker. It sounds big, but this is recoding dependent.

It works well with modern mono albums too. I tried a great album that I mostly find troublesome- the long out of print Steve Hoffman /DCC Beach Boys mono Pet Sounds. Much more often than not it sounds thick and muddy. My best result was with the Hana MH on the Ultradeck. It was actually enjoyable. With the ME+ on the GR, I finally know how good the DCC is. and the price difference can’t be ignored- the Hana ML is $1200. The Grado ME+ is $160.

Tonight it was Dylan’s Highway 61 Revisited from the mono box. Again, incredibly quiet. But the sound quality varied pretty substantially from track to track. “From a Buick 6” and “Desolation Row” were pretty awesome though.

 

[zombie.modernist]

I have. A couple of pressings from 1961-62. It’s brilliant.

These albums are NM- condition. No surface noise whatsoever. Obviously, no left/right effect. Tons of front/back though. I expected a most of the sonic image to be between the speakers. That’s not what I got. I have an expansive sonic image that goes speaker to speaker. It sounds big, but this is recoding dependent.

It works well with modern mono albums too. I tried a great album that I mostly find troublesome- the long out of print Steve Hoffman /DCC Beach Boys mono Pet Sounds. Much more often than not it sounds thick and muddy. My best result was with the Hana MH on the Ultradeck. It was actually enjoyable. With the ME+ on the GR, I finally know how good the DCC is. and the price difference can’t be ignored- the Hana ML is $1200. The Grado ME+ is $160.

Tonight it was Dylan’s Highway 61 Revisited from the mono box. Again, incredibly quiet. But the sound quality varied pretty substantially from track to track. “From a Buick 6” and “Desolation Row” were pretty awesome though.

Sounds like a nice addition to your playback! Thanks for the detailed overview. Never had the pleasure of hearing the DCC pet sounds, but I do have the Dylan Mono and definitely experience the track to track variance on Highway 61. Although I kind of remember that on the other copies I had. All in all seems like a very fair price for a true mono cart.

 

[HayesWeighsIn]

Knocked my cart out of alignment taking my dust cover off pre-coffee this morning. Grumblingly re-aligned. “Whoa, this sounds amazing!” Thanks, universe!

 

[Splunders]

Picked this sucker up today for my 2nd system (SL1200 mk2, @AnthonyI 's old Sutherland Insight, Aric Audio tube preamp, First Watt SIT-3, B&W 602 speakers). Previously I had a Grado Gold3 w/8mz stylus. Definitely more detail and more clearly defined and wider soundstage. The Grado was no slouch, but this is clearly better, and still breaking in.

Playing my fave album of the past year, and my new reference album: Darkside - Spiral and hearing things I haven't heard thru my Soundsmith Zephyr on my primary system (Mofi Ultradeck, Manley Chinook). Very resolving yet relaxed. Curious to see what it's like in 50 hours of play.

 

[Mather]

Picked this sucker up today for my 2nd system (SL1200 mk2, @AnthonyI 's old Sutherland Insight, Aric Audio tube preamp, First Watt SIT-3, B&W 602 speakers). Previously I had a Grado Gold3 w/8mz stylus. Definitely more detail and more clearly defined and wider soundstage. The Grado was no slouch, but this is clearly better, and still breaking in.

Playing my fave album of the past year, and my new reference album: Darkside - Spiral and hearing things I haven't heard thru my Soundsmith Zephyr on my primary system (Mofi Ultradeck, Manley Chinook). Very resolving yet relaxed. Curious to see what it's like in 50 hours of play.
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i want to go to there

 

[Yer Ol' Uncle D]

Picked this sucker up today for my 2nd system (SL1200 mk2, @AnthonyI 's old Sutherland Insight, Aric Audio tube preamp, First Watt SIT-3, B&W 602 speakers). Previously I had a Grado Gold3 w/8mz stylus. Definitely more detail and more clearly defined and wider soundstage. The Grado was no slouch, but this is clearly better, and still breaking in.

Playing my fave album of the past year, and my new reference album: Darkside - Spiral and hearing things I haven't heard thru my Soundsmith Zephyr on my primary system (Mofi Ultradeck, Manley Chinook). Very resolving yet relaxed. Curious to see what it's like in 50 hours of play.
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It better be better than the Gold 3 - it's close to 3 times the price. Nice setup.

 

[Angsty]

Picked this sucker up today for my 2nd system (SL1200 mk2, @AnthonyI 's old Sutherland Insight, Aric Audio tube preamp, First Watt SIT-3, B&W 602 speakers). Previously I had a Grado Gold3 w/8mz stylus. Definitely more detail and more clearly defined and wider soundstage. The Grado was no slouch, but this is clearly better, and still breaking in.

Playing my fave album of the past year, and my new reference album: Darkside - Spiral and hearing things I haven't heard thru my Soundsmith Zephyr on my primary system (Mofi Ultradeck, Manley Chinook). Very resolving yet relaxed. Curious to see what it's like in 50 hours of play.
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I like my Hana SL so much that I've stopped thinking about an upgrade. I've now switched to looking for a discounted backup SL for when my stylus needs replacement.

 

[Angsty]

If you are using the factory headshell, my experience was that the cartridge couldn’t come far enough forward to achieve Baerwald. No such issues with the Jelco HS-20, which is what I use. Although Jelco is now defunct, their headshells are still available from a couple of retailers- one in Canada and a cartridge specialist in Hong Kong.

The HS-20 adds azimuth adjustment as well. The Pioneer was off a fair amount.

Pioneer’s alignment is closest to Stevenson, but not identical. They tried to copy the Technics alignment but had to account for the 2mm difference in length of the arm. I used the Geodisc with the Pioneer when I had it with good results.

Tried using the "54 mm" Pioneer alignment with the Nagaoka MP-300 tonight. It's making reasonable sounds, but clearly not what it should be capable of. It's getting late here now, but will try out the Geodisc for alignment later. Have the HS-25 headshell, so I should be fine with the slot length. I noticed that the HS-25 with the Nagaoka makes for a heavy load. Even with the extra rear weight, I could just barely get to the 1.8g stylus pressure. I'll need to spring for a lighter headshell in the future.

 

[zombie.modernist]

Tried using the "54 mm" Pioneer alignment with the Nagaoka MP-300 tonight. It's making reasonable sounds, but clearly not what it should be capable of. It's getting late here now, but will try out the Geodisc for alignment later. Have the HS-25 headshell, so I should be fine with the slot length. I noticed that the HS-25 with the Nagaoka makes for a heavy load. Even with the extra rear weight, I could just barely get to the 1.8g stylus pressure. I'll need to spring for a lighter headshell in the future.

I’ve found it’s a funny balance with some carts and heavy headshells. Are you targeting higher than 1.8g VTF? Some people will advocate for a heavier headshell just to get the counterweight as close as physically possible to the arm pivot. Pretty much what I’m running now with my AT, but the compliance on that is lower than the MP series. I’m also unconvinced the tracking is that much better. I’ve personally just stuck with a Technics headshell on my old MP-110 (just use it for beaters), curious what sounds best to you with this series though!

 

[kvetcha]

I’ve found it’s a funny balance with some carts and heavy headshells. Are you targeting higher than 1.8g VTF? Some people will advocate for a heavier headshell just to get the counterweight as close as physically possible to the arm pivot. Pretty much what I’m running now with my AT, but the compliance on that is lower than the MP series. I’m also unconvinced the tracking is that much better. I’ve personally just stuck with a Technics headshell on my old MP-110 (just use it for beaters), curious what sounds best to you with this series though!

wait, wouldn’t a heavier headshell mean the counterweight would need to be further from the pivot point to balance?

 

[zombie.modernist]

wait, wouldn’t a heavier headshell mean the counterweight would need to be further from the pivot point to balance?

It does when running a stock counterweight only, but that’s the where the back-end aux weight comes into play. You can put the aux weight on to help counter heavy loads on the business end of the tonearm. Here’s what my tonearm looks like currently, headshell cart mass is around 18g, targeting 2g VTF. Lots of back and forth around the subject but from what I gather the aux weight has a negligible effect on tonearm mass due to its placement. So with this configuration I’ve increased the mass the cart is seeing on the headshell by a few grams while inching the main counterweight closer than it would be even with a ~9g headshell.

 

[Joe Mac]

It does when running a stock counterweight only, but that’s the where the back-end aux weight comes into play. You can put the aux weight on to help counter heavy loads on the business end of the tonearm. Here’s what my tonearm looks like currently, headshell cart mass is around 18g, targeting 2g VTF. Lots of back and forth around the subject but from what I gather the aux weight has a negligible effect on tonearm mass due to its placement. So with this configuration I’ve increased the mass the cart is seeing on the headshell by a few grams while inching the main counterweight closer than it would be even with a ~9g headshell.
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If you want to use a heavier headshell/cartridge on the GR one easy workaround is to buy the aux weight for the G. It can be picked up on its own as a part and it is a bit heavier but fits the GR the same. Let’s you play with some funky headshells or heavier MC carts.

 

[kvetcha]

It does when running a stock counterweight only, but that’s the where the back-end aux weight comes into play. You can put the aux weight on to help counter heavy loads on the business end of the tonearm. Here’s what my tonearm looks like currently, headshell cart mass is around 18g, targeting 2g VTF. Lots of back and forth around the subject but from what I gather the aux weight has a negligible effect on tonearm mass due to its placement. So with this configuration I’ve increased the mass the cart is seeing on the headshell by a few grams while inching the main counterweight closer than it would be even with a ~9g headshell.
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I see! Interesting. Thanks for the explanation.