Phono Cartridges - Your favorites and least favorites?

[Angsty]

I haven't spent a lot of time listening to the MP500 up to this point, probably less than 30-40hrs, but I can say that its is not a harsh cart at all. Very close tonally to the Hana SL I am now running on the 1210. Highly recommended..

So noted. I've had my eye on the Nagaoka MP series for years but needed a trigger to actively look for one. I just plopped down cash for a Humminguru, so I'll be on the long hunt for a discounted, "gently used" MP500 versus new. I can wait.

Encounter any alignment issues with your PLX-1000?

 

[Angsty]

Because two carts have the same stylus profile doesnt mean they will sound similar. Shibata is no magic, its just a (good) tip profile.
You may want to look into a Garrott Brothers cart. There is one with a shibata, and it sounds very organic, not analytical - although the detail level will sneak up on you.

An advantage of the Garrott is that you can replace the stylus with a JICO SAS, which is not only superior to any Shibata, it is just the best needle profile available, and is quite forgiving.

I dont buy the bullshit about forgiving and analytical. A great cart should sound good with any record.

Thats like saying I have a fantastic car that just purrs like a tiger and rides and smooth as a babys butt. But only on sunny warm days. Performs inferior to a cheap shitbox when its raining or cloudy. Screw that. Consistency and adaptability matter.

I do think that there can be cartridges with inherent frequency response curves, tracking and distortion characteristics that favor some types of music over others. I do agree that the ideal cartridge is indifferent to content type but many cartridges are not ideal.

Besides the Nagaoka, I'll take a closer look at the Garrott Brothers. Garrott is even less common in the US than Nagaoka is.

 

[Angsty]

When I made my last stylus change, I started using a handheld counter to keep track of the number of sides I play on the stylus. I bought a two pack from Amazon which gave me one for each turntable. I multiply by 22 to estimate how much playing time in minutes I have on each stylus. Not as fancy as some actual time counters I've seen, but easier for me to manage. Since I don't change cartridges too often, it works for me.

Amazon product ASIN B082QQTQ7D

 

[RHANDMJ]

I do think that there can be cartridges with inherent frequency response curves, tracking and distortion characteristics that favor some types of music over others. I do agree that the ideal cartridge is indifferent to content type but many cartridges are not ideal.

Besides the Nagaoka, I'll take a closer look at the Garrott Brothers. Garrott is even less common in the US than Nagaoka is.

Since the Garrott Brothers tragedy, the cartridges have become less widely known and are really only sold in their home country, Australia, where the legend of the Garrott cartrdges still looms large in analog circles. Back in the day, the brothers' work was thought of in the same vein as the legendary Decca cartridges, but less fussy.

Today Garrott is a one man operation, fortunately continuity is that the person building them now was employed by the brothers and their techniques were passed on.

Easy to get from the two main Australian dealers who carry Garrott.

BTW, they don't sound like any of the mass produced cartidges made today, like Nagaoka, Ortofon, etc.. They sound at first very mellow, even a bit dull, but very rounded and pleasant. That contnues until you realize that all the detail is there, even more, just not etched and in your face. And the bass is to die for.

The only cart that might be better is the JICO SAS, but those are impossible to get now. They are basically a run of NOS 60's Philips carts made in Austria, with the Jico SAS stylus.

 

[HiFi Guy]

Because two carts have the same stylus profile doesnt mean they will sound similar. Shibata is no magic, its just a (good) tip profile.
You may want to look into a Garrott Brothers cart. There is one with a shibata, and it sounds very organic, not analytical - although the detail level will sneak up on you.

An advantage of the Garrott is that you can replace the stylus with a JICO SAS, which is not only superior to any Shibata, it is just the best needle profile available, and is quite forgiving.

I dont buy the bullshit about forgiving and analytical. A great cart should sound good with any record.

Thats like saying I have a fantastic car that just purrs like a tiger and rides and smooth as a babys butt. But only on sunny warm days. Performs inferior to a cheap shitbox when its raining or cloudy. Screw that. Consistency and adaptability matter.

While I agree that the SAS is a great stylus profile , it’s the same stylus as a Microline or Microridge. They all come from the same supplier in Japan which happens not to be Jico.

And just because a cartridge has a more advanced stylus profile doesn’t mean it will automatically sound better. A perfect example is the Ortofon 2m Bronze. It’s fairly expensive for a MM from a respected manufacturer and has a line contact stylus so it must be the bee’s knees, right? Nope. It sounds like hammered shit. I’d far rather listen to a Grado with its lowly bonded elliptical or a less expensive A/T with a Microline. And if you think forgiving and analytical is bullshit, you need to listen to the 2m Bronze. It’s analytical as hell and not musical at all.

I do agree that a cartridge should allow one to enjoy every record in their collection. Some cartridges miss that goal by a country mile.

 

[kvetcha]

As someone who still listens to a 2M Bronze on the regular, I feel like 'hammered shit' is a bit harsh.

 

[HiFi Guy]

As someone who still listens to a 2M Bronze on the regular, I feel like 'hammered shit' is a bit harsh.

Could also be a preference or system synergy thing. I do know my old Bronze changed hands 3 times in short order at the old place before it disappeared.

 

[Mather]

I mean the bottom line with any cartridge is it's going to sound different in every system, with every component, to every ear. I'm kinda sick of all the "this is the best/this cart sucks" stuff. It's tired.

 

[kvetcha]

Could also be a preference or system synergy thing. I do know my old Bronze changed hands 3 times in short order at the old place before it disappeared.

Preference for sure. I agree with your overall point, though. When I listen to the Bronze now, it's with friends and alcohol, rather than alone a dark room, listening critically. And it replaced a Rega Elyx on my friend's P1, so analytical nature aside, it was a huge step up in detail and soundstage.

 

[Slimwhit33]

The only cart that might be better is the JICO SAS, but those are impossible to get now. They are basically a run of NOS 60's Philips carts made in Austria, with the Jico SAS stylus.

One listen to my V15 III w/JICO SAS stylus had me a believer. It sounds as good/better than most newer carts I have heard. It’s the shit. Dynamic as all get go, tracks like crazy at 0.8g and has all the low and high end detail one could want. Use a preamp that can load it properly and it’s an end game cartridge IMO. Use a preamp that can’t load it and it sounds blah.

 

[kvetcha]

One listen to my V15 III w/JICO SAS stylus had me a believer. It sounds as good/better than most newer carts I have heard. It’s the shit. Dynamic as all get go, tracks like crazy at 0.8g and has all the low and high end detail one could want. Use a preamp that can load it properly and it’s an end game cartridge IMO. Use a preamp that can’t load it and it sounds blah.

My dad had a new-in-box V-15 v3 somewhere and we lost it in a move.

 

[HiFi Guy]

I mean the bottom line with any cartridge is it's going to sound different in every system, with every component, to every ear. I'm kinda sick of all the "this is the best/this cart sucks" stuff. It's tired.

The Bronze is is interesting example, because with cartridges, usually the more you spend, the better they get. It doesn’t really work that way in the 2m lineup. The Black is the best sounding for sure, but the Blue and Bronze are flipped. The Blue sounds closer to the Black (but still not close) and the Bronze sounds closer to the Red (much closer).

The same thing happens in the A/T lineup, sort of. On paper the ML is the most advanced stylus profile. It’s the closest to the original stylus that cut the lacquer, and exhibits the lowest distortion. But it’s the middle choice in their hierarchy which is kind of odd. Hana and MoFi put the ML is their top offerings, at least MoFi does with their MM cartridges; they use a Shibata on their MC.

That’s not to say anything other than ML is a bad choice. The Ortofon Quintet Black S is a lovely thing and it uses a Shibata on a sapphire cantilever.

We had a new member here recently that was considering a few different cartridges, one of which was the Bronze. Should he or she not be warned because it’s “tired”? The Bronze sounds ok in a vacuum. By itself. Compare it to something else, and it’s deficiencies are easily heard. And something else that out performs it may actually cost substantially less. And I’m speaking from personal experience: I’m a former 2m Bronze owner. It could have been worse- at least I ordered from Germany so I didn’t pay US retail. In my case, much better was only $50 less.

 

[HiFi Guy]

One listen to my V15 III w/JICO SAS stylus had me a believer. It sounds as good/better than most newer carts I have heard. It’s the shit. Dynamic as all get go, tracks like crazy at 0.8g and has all the low and high end detail one could want. Use a preamp that can load it properly and it’s an end game cartridge IMO. Use a preamp that can’t load it and it sounds blah.

Same thing happens with the M97. Load it at 47k and it’s dull and boring, but load it at 68k and it’s really nice.

The Jico SAS are also a great way of boosting performance with Shure cartridges as Shure has exited cartridge manufacturing as well as any support for their cartridges.

 

[Mather]

The Bronze is is interesting example, because with cartridges, usually the ore you spend, the better they get. It doesn’t really work that way in the 2m lineup. The Black is the best sounding for sure, but the Blue and Bronze are flipped. The Blue sounds closer to the Black (but still not close) and the Bronze sounds closer to the Red (much closer).

The same thing happens in the A/T lineup, sort of. On paper the ML is the most advanced stylus profile. It’s the closest to the original stylus that cut the lacquer, and exhibits the lowest distortion. But it’s the middle choice in their hierarchy which is kind of odd. Hana and MoFi put the ML is their top offerings, at least MoFi does with their MM cartridges; they use a Shibata on their MC.

That’s not to say anything other than ML is a bad choice. The Ortofon Quintet Black S is a lovely thing and it uses a Shibata on a sapphire cantilever.

We had a new member here recently that was considering a few different cartridges, one of which was the Bronze. Should he or she not be warned because it’s “old”? The Bronze sounds ok in a vacuum. By itself. Compare it to something else, and it’s deficiencies are easily heard. And something else that out performs it may actually cost substantially less. And I’m speaking from personal experience: I’m a former 2m Bronze owner. It could have been worse- at least I ordered from Germany so I didn’t pay US retail. In my case, much better was only $50 less.

I get it, it's a never ending debate. I'm just tired of it. I can go through and cite a zillion reviews that say the exact opposite of a zillion other reviews. I have no problem with people expressing opinions, I'm just sick of opinions expressed as fact. I'm not going after you specifically or anything, I just mean in general. I've had enough of it.

I'm going to go have a beer.

 

[HiFi Guy]

Since the Garrott Brothers tragedy, the cartridges have become less widely known and are really only sold in their home country, Australia, where the legend of the Garrott cartrdges still looms large in analog circles. Back in the day, the brothers' work was thought of in the same vein as the legendary Decca cartridges, but less fussy.

Today Garrott is a one man operation, fortunately continuity is that the person building them now was employed by the brothers and their techniques were passed on.

Easy to get from the two main Australian dealers who carry Garrott.

BTW, they don't sound like any of the mass produced cartidges made today, like Nagaoka, Ortofon, etc.. They sound at first very mellow, even a bit dull, but very rounded and pleasant. That contnues until you realize that all the detail is there, even more, just not etched and in your face. And the bass is to die for.

The only cart that might be better is the JICO SAS, but those are impossible to get now. They are basically a run of NOS 60's Philips carts made in Austria, with the Jico SAS stylus.

That Garrett Brothers P77i looks interesting……

 

[Angsty]

Since the Garrott Brothers tragedy, the cartridges have become less widely known and are really only sold in their home country, Australia, where the legend of the Garrott cartrdges still looms large in analog circles. Back in the day, the brothers' work was thought of in the same vein as the legendary Decca cartridges, but less fussy.

Had not known the story; tragic indeed.

The strange and tragic story of the Garrott Brothers | WHETSTONE AUDIO

 

[Angsty]

I have no problem with people expressing opinions, I'm just sick of opinions expressed as fact.

I believe that "it sounds like hammered shit" won't be confused as a "fact"!

I know there are genuine "facts" in audio that can be measured and weighed, but I like vinyl because it elicits such strong opinions!

 

[Angsty]

The Ortofon Quintet Black S is a lovely thing and it uses a Shibata on a sapphire cantilever.

I am fearful of sapphire cantilevers. I am clumsy enough to mishandle a cartridge every now and then (e.g. lower the stylus off the edge of the record, bump the tonearm sideways on a playing record, etc.). I'm worried I'd snap the cantilever clean off.

I saw a ruby re-tipped Hana SL for sale the other day and I had to remind myself of the examples above.

Has anyone found aluminum cantilevers to be more durable than sapphire in practice? How about boron?

 

[Slimwhit33]

That Garrott story was sad.. wasn't familiar with them.

 

[HiFi Guy]

I am fearful of sapphire cantilevers. I am clumsy enough to mishandle a cartridge every now and then (e.g. lower the stylus off the edge of the record, bump the tonearm sideways on a playing record, etc.). I'm worried I'd snap the cantilever clean off.

I saw a ruby re-tipped Hana SL for sale the other day and I had to remind myself of the examples above.

Has anyone found aluminum cantilevers to be more durable than sapphire in practice? How about boron?

I don’t think the material will make a big difference. I’ve damaged 4 cantilevers in 40 plus years. 3 were aluminum, one was boron.