Neverending Covid-19 Coronavirus

In the news this morning reported by NBC is most major corporations have now delayed return to the office to January or later due to delta with one notable exception, the financial industry.

Much of Wall Street moved forward with return to the office on September 1st. The financial industry tends to be more conservative than other industries and is usually among the last industry to adapt new working practices.

Wall Street is very much "We are not a work from home company, we want you back in the office and we expect you to be back in the office."

Day two of return to the office for Wall Street in NYC was a no go this morning due to Ida. NYC is under a flash flood emergency. Subways are closed after flooding, streets are flooded and closed. I-95 is a parking lot because no one can get off the highway due to all the road closures.

People are physically unable to get into the office this morning in NYC.
 
On my Instagram feed I saw a post this morning from a 20 year old college student. Return to campus for the first time in a year and a half was just a week ago for her. This morning she posted "First week back and I'm already heading back home with covid after 1 frat party."

I imagine there will be a lot of this as kids return to college. All that pent up need to party. And party without masks. Covid is likely to run rampant at college parties.
 
dbarila said:
My daughter's school announced they are going to Universal Masking and people are throwing a shit fit. When did people start putting so much effort into making sure their child isn't safe? The human race is screwed.
Click to expand...

About 10 years ago I thought America as we know it might last another 50-75 years based on current trends at the time, afraid to say since 2016 I think that was an overly optimistic estimate. Unless we regulate internet to keep from untruths being spread all the time, get fiscally responsible, and raise taxes to fix our deficit I think the great experiment will end. America is just a complete shit show at this time.
 
Quebec has been publishing rolling data on vaccine effectiveness.

It's normalized for age and rolling over the last 28 days.

This are the numbers for today, in case anyone thinks vaccines don't work with delta:

Compared to a person that is double dose vaccinated, the risk of infection is 8.8x greater if you're not vaccinated and 4.2x if you're single dosed. The risk of hospitalization is 25.7x if you're not vaccinated and 4.1x if you have a single dose.

One caveat is that the gap between the doses was 2-4 months early on - this may actually be advantageous right now because this course seems to produce better antibody titers. Most people got mRNA vaccines and several got AZ + mRNA mixed course (like me and many others in the 45-60 age group).


Today's datasheet where I got this:
 
The lady whose dog I walk has a son who's a doctor - orthapedic surgeon, I believe - who's been telling her that vaccines straight up don't work and has recommended taking vitamin C and zinc instead. And all the other nonsense - came from a lab in North Carolina etc. And meanwhile she was on the phone with a nephew today who HAS IT and went to a motorcycle store in a beach town since he has the time of work, likening it to a “superflu”and saying “that antiviral they were trying to get me to take is way worse than the virus itself.”

And she's going to Florida in a couple weeks to help a homeless relative on disability.

Like, I don't know what to say. I get that it's not entirely my responsibility but I can't help but think I'd feel that I didn't do enough if she gets it and I feel useless when she tries to start the conversation because I keep shut as I don't expect myself to not been snide about it, which isn't helpful.
 
When I was visiting my family over the weekend in the western part of the state, I saw a local news story about how all the local hospitals are short staffed. Covid spread map was updated to severe for all but one county in western Massachusetts this past weekend. As cases climb and hospitalizations increase nurses are being stretched too thin, being overworked and continue to quit their jobs.

The nursing shortage is being caused by nurses quitting their job to take on temporary work. Often as a traveling nurse. Traveling nurses travel to different parts of the country to where there are shortages in nurses and high covid cases in high population areas. They often make $5,000 a week or more. I know of at least one personally who is down in Maryland right now making $7,000 a week.

The issue is this is cleaning house of staff at rural hospitals. The rural hospitals can not afford to pay anywhere close to $5,00 a week. Nor can they afford to get their own traveling nurses to help with the staffing issues.

Covid has created a big need for traveling nurses, and the pay is extremely good. And this is hurting the rural hospitals who already pay nurses below the state average. Nurses are leaving left and right for these traveling nurse positions for much better pay. Some who didn't leave right away to do that are now quitting and taking on these jobs after their hospital became short staffed, hours insanely long and stress levels too high to maintain. Burnout is real for them and the overtime pay is still nowhere near would they could make as a traveling nurse who likely only has to work 40 hours a week, 50 at tops.

The need for nurses in high population centers are currently pulling nurses away from rural areas.
 
Phaneronic said:
The lady whose dog I walk has a son who's a doctor - orthapedic surgeon, I believe - who's been telling her that vaccines straight up don't work and has recommended taking vitamin C and zinc instead. And all the other nonsense - came from a lab in North Carolina etc. And meanwhile she was on the phone with a nephew today who HAS IT and went to a motorcycle store in a beach town since he has the time of work, likening it to a “superflu”and saying “that antiviral they were trying to get me to take is way worse than the virus itself.”

And she's going to Florida in a couple weeks to help a homeless relative on disability.

Like, I don't know what to say. I get that it's not entirely my responsibility but I can't help but think I'd feel that I didn't do enough if she gets it and I feel useless when she tries to start the conversation because I keep shut as I don't expect myself to not been snide about it, which isn't helpful.
Click to expand...
There is some evidence that Vitamin D has a protective effect against severe covid symptoms. There are also breakthrough infections--fully vaccinated people getting Covid. We aren't sure what's happening here, but we believe that the antibodies wane after about 8 months after the shot. We see a similar effect with the flu vaccine antibodies. So she isn't totally off base, but she wasn't told, or didn't see that those people that get the vaccine are largely protected against severe covid symptoms and hospitalization, unless you are high risk.

What's needed here is not an admonishment, or snark, but a genuine conversation with you involved. Realize that her fears are not unfounded and talk to her about what we know and what we don't. I came across an article today that resonated with me. This is a novel virus, which means we don't know a damn thing about it. I wonder what's happening to intellectual curiosity and why is it being replaced with politics. In every statistics class, my professors were quick to remind us that statistics only suggest an outcome--it doesn't define an outcome. Just because this cohort of people has this result, doesn't mean it's transferrable to another group of people. Throughout scientific literature, we constantly state that we don't really know, but we can report on what we observe and make an educated guess after that. This is the beauty of the scientific process--it allows for varied results as we continually add information to our approximation. But with the Covid literature, people are treating it like it's carved in stone. They act like we can't have new information and government officials often aren't scientists, so they don't appreciate that the science changes as we gather new information. If we were more honest, which I think we should be, then we should say that we don't really know how effective vaccines are when it comes to contracting covid (but we do know about those people's hospitalization rates). We also don't know what other vitamins might help protect people. I even read a study that came out of Japan that talked about how people on hypertension medications had lower rates of covid compared to a similar risk group not on these meds. We aren't sure why we are seeing these results. We stopped ivermectin treatment, but India and Latin America are still using this as an active treatment. We are still teasing out the biological mechanisms of covid--and until we know this, we can only respond to symptoms.

No one knows what's actually effective, or what the science really is, but we are learning how to best protect ourselves, and the number one way to keep covid from spreading is still population masking and social distancing. If you want to avoid the hospital, you should probably get a vaccine, because the data shows that adverse events from the vaccine are about 4 to 6 per one million people, but it reduces your risk of hospitalization (how much, we aren't sure but the data suggests that it is highly protective). There was a good study that came out of the UK earlier this month that talks about risk factors for hospitalization with the vaccine:

Between Dec 8, 2020, and July 4, 2021, 1 240 009 COVID Symptom Study app users reported a first vaccine dose, of whom 6030 (0·5%) subsequently tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 (cases 1), and 971 504 reported a second dose, of whom 2370 (0·2%) subsequently tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 (cases 2). In the risk factor analysis, frailty was associated with post-vaccination infection in older adults (≥60 years) after their first vaccine dose (odds ratio [OR] 1·93, 95% CI 1·50–2·48; p<0·0001), and individuals living in highly deprived areas had increased odds of post-vaccination infection following their first vaccine dose (OR 1·11, 95% CI 1·01–1·23; p=0·039). Individuals without obesity (BMI <30 kg/m2) had lower odds of infection following their first vaccine dose (OR 0·84, 95% CI 0·75–0·94; p=0·0030). For the disease profile analysis, 3825 users from cases 1 were included in cases 3 and 906 users from cases 2 were included in cases 4. Vaccination (compared with no vaccination) was associated with reduced odds of hospitalisation or having more than five symptoms in the first week of illness following the first or second dose, and long-duration (≥28 days) symptoms following the second dose. Almost all symptoms were reported less frequently in infected vaccinated individuals than in infected unvaccinated individuals, and vaccinated participants were more likely to be completely asymptomatic, especially if they were 60 years or older.
www.thelancet.com

Risk factors and disease profile of post-vaccination SARS-CoV-2 infection in UK users of the COVID Symptom Study app: a prospective, community-based, nested, case-control study

To minimise SARS-CoV-2 infection, at-risk populations must be targeted in efforts to boost vaccine effectiveness and infection control measures. Our findings might support caution around relaxing physical distancing and other personal protective measures in the post-vaccination era, particularly...
www.thelancet.com

I guess you have to decide, do you care enough to engage in conversation? For an acquaintance, I usually don't say much or say something like, "yeah, I decided to get my vaccine because I can't be spending time in the hospital" or "my dad is a transplant case so I got it to protect him". And they acknowledge that yes that is a good reason.

I was recently at a family funeral and my cousin's wife was talking about how they didn't get the vaccine and all of them (her, my cousin, and their child) got Covid. She asked me if I had gotten the vaccine and I said yes, because I want to see my immunocompromised father without getting him sick, and she said that she wished she had gotten the vaccine because she was still dealing with the fatigue syndrome prior to getting covid. I know that part of their reasoning was quasi-political (they are staunch Republicans but not the over the top vaccine denier people). I feel like if this was less political, then people like my cousin and his wife would have been much more open to getting the vaccine.
RenegadeMonster said:
When I was visiting my family over the weekend in the western part of the state, I saw a local news story about how all the local hospitals are short staffed. Covid spread map was updated to severe for all but one county in western Massachusetts this past weekend. As cases climb and hospitalizations increase nurses are being stretched too thin, being overworked and continue to quit their jobs.

The nursing shortage is being caused by nurses quitting their job to take on temporary work. Often as a traveling nurse. Traveling nurses travel to different parts of the country to where there are shortages in nurses and high covid cases in high population areas. They often make $5,000 a week or more. I know of at least one personally who is down in Maryland right now making $7,000 a week.

The issue is this is cleaning house of staff at rural hospitals. The rural hospitals can not afford to pay anywhere close to $5,00 a week. Nor can they afford to get their own traveling nurses to help with the staffing issues.

Covid has created a big need for traveling nurses, and the pay is extremely good. And this is hurting the rural hospitals who already pay nurses below the state average. Nurses are leaving left and right for these traveling nurse positions for much better pay. Some who didn't leave right away to do that are now quitting and taking on these jobs after their hospital became short staffed, hours insanely long and stress levels too high to maintain. Burnout is real for them and the overtime pay is still nowhere near would they could make as a traveling nurse who likely only has to work 40 hours a week, 50 at tops.

The need for nurses in high population centers are currently pulling nurses away from rural areas.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm, what could we do to stop this from happening?

Answer: A comprehensive national health strategy
 
RenegadeMonster said:
www.live5news.com

Ask for COVID vaccine proof, face a $5,000 fine in Florida

Businesses requiring proof of vaccination say they are trying to make customers and employees feel safe, but critics say it violates their rights and their privacy.
www.live5news.com www.live5news.com
Click to expand...
This is becoming like voter suppression. Caring suppression, science suppression, truth suppression. Very Orwellian ! Caring about people, caring about dieing, caring about protecting loved ones, elderly, children... Suppress! The new weapon of mass self destruction of the right, ignorant, and demented.
 
nolalady said:
There is some evidence that Vitamin D has a protective effect against severe covid symptoms. There are also breakthrough infections--fully vaccinated people getting Covid. We aren't sure what's happening here, but we believe that the antibodies wane after about 8 months after the shot. We see a similar effect with the flu vaccine antibodies. So she isn't totally off base, but she wasn't told, or didn't see that those people that get the vaccine are largely protected against severe covid symptoms and hospitalization, unless you are high risk.

What's needed here is not an admonishment, or snark, but a genuine conversation with you involved. Realize that her fears are not unfounded and talk to her about what we know and what we don't. I came across an article today that resonated with me. This is a novel virus, which means we don't know a damn thing about it. I wonder what's happening to intellectual curiosity and why is it being replaced with politics. In every statistics class, my professors were quick to remind us that statistics only suggest an outcome--it doesn't define an outcome. Just because this cohort of people has this result, doesn't mean it's transferrable to another group of people. Throughout scientific literature, we constantly state that we don't really know, but we can report on what we observe and make an educated guess after that. This is the beauty of the scientific process--it allows for varied results as we continually add information to our approximation. But with the Covid literature, people are treating it like it's carved in stone. They act like we can't have new information and government officials often aren't scientists, so they don't appreciate that the science changes as we gather new information. If we were more honest, which I think we should be, then we should say that we don't really know how effective vaccines are when it comes to contracting covid (but we do know about those people's hospitalization rates). We also don't know what other vitamins might help protect people. I even read a study that came out of Japan that talked about how people on hypertension medications had lower rates of covid compared to a similar risk group not on these meds. We aren't sure why we are seeing these results. We stopped ivermectin treatment, but India and Latin America are still using this as an active treatment. We are still teasing out the biological mechanisms of covid--and until we know this, we can only respond to symptoms.

No one knows what's actually effective, or what the science really is, but we are learning how to best protect ourselves, and the number one way to keep covid from spreading is still population masking and social distancing. If you want to avoid the hospital, you should probably get a vaccine, because the data shows that adverse events from the vaccine are about 4 to 6 per one million people, but it reduces your risk of hospitalization (how much, we aren't sure but the data suggests that it is highly protective). There was a good study that came out of the UK earlier this month that talks about risk factors for hospitalization with the vaccine:

Between Dec 8, 2020, and July 4, 2021, 1 240 009 COVID Symptom Study app users reported a first vaccine dose, of whom 6030 (0·5%) subsequently tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 (cases 1), and 971 504 reported a second dose, of whom 2370 (0·2%) subsequently tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 (cases 2). In the risk factor analysis, frailty was associated with post-vaccination infection in older adults (≥60 years) after their first vaccine dose (odds ratio [OR] 1·93, 95% CI 1·50–2·48; p<0·0001), and individuals living in highly deprived areas had increased odds of post-vaccination infection following their first vaccine dose (OR 1·11, 95% CI 1·01–1·23; p=0·039). Individuals without obesity (BMI <30 kg/m2) had lower odds of infection following their first vaccine dose (OR 0·84, 95% CI 0·75–0·94; p=0·0030). For the disease profile analysis, 3825 users from cases 1 were included in cases 3 and 906 users from cases 2 were included in cases 4. Vaccination (compared with no vaccination) was associated with reduced odds of hospitalisation or having more than five symptoms in the first week of illness following the first or second dose, and long-duration (≥28 days) symptoms following the second dose. Almost all symptoms were reported less frequently in infected vaccinated individuals than in infected unvaccinated individuals, and vaccinated participants were more likely to be completely asymptomatic, especially if they were 60 years or older.
www.thelancet.com

Risk factors and disease profile of post-vaccination SARS-CoV-2 infection in UK users of the COVID Symptom Study app: a prospective, community-based, nested, case-control study

To minimise SARS-CoV-2 infection, at-risk populations must be targeted in efforts to boost vaccine effectiveness and infection control measures. Our findings might support caution around relaxing physical distancing and other personal protective measures in the post-vaccination era, particularly...
www.thelancet.com

I guess you have to decide, do you care enough to engage in conversation? For an acquaintance, I usually don't say much or say something like, "yeah, I decided to get my vaccine because I can't be spending time in the hospital" or "my dad is a transplant case so I got it to protect him". And they acknowledge that yes that is a good reason.

I was recently at a family funeral and my cousin's wife was talking about how they didn't get the vaccine and all of them (her, my cousin, and their child) got Covid. She asked me if I had gotten the vaccine and I said yes, because I want to see my immunocompromised father without getting him sick, and she said that she wished she had gotten the vaccine because she was still dealing with the fatigue syndrome prior to getting covid. I know that part of their reasoning was quasi-political (they are staunch Republicans but not the over the top vaccine denier people). I feel like if this was less political, then people like my cousin and his wife would have been much more open to getting the vaccine.

Hmmmm, what could we do to stop this from happening?

Answer: A comprehensive national health strategy
Click to expand...

There was an excellent article on "waning" immunity in the Atlantic that does a good job explaining what is likely going on.... basically it's how vaccines/immunity works in general. You get a large antibody boost at first and the antibody levels slowly diminish over time but don't quite go away - so you night not get as immediate a protection if you get barraged by a large infectious dose of virus, but your b-cells and t-cells would start up again and mitigate the severity. As one of the experts in the article put it, if our antibodies didn't wane after an infection, we would all have burst by now from all the infections we fought off through life.

www.theatlantic.com

What We Actually Know About Waning Immunity

Reports of vaccines’ decline have been greatly overstated.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
 
nolalady said:
AAPS just fired shots across the AMA's bow. I'm just over here eating popcorn.


aapsonline.org

AAPS Letter to AMA Re: Ivermectin and COVID - AAPS | Association of American Physicians and Surgeons

Gerald E. Harmon, M.D. President, American Medical Association AMA Plaza 330 N. Wabash Ave., Suite 39300 Chicago, IL 60611-5885 Dear Dr. Harmon: The AMA has taken the startling and unprecedented position that American physicians should […]
aapsonline.org aapsonline.org
Click to expand...

I have trouble following the logic of those that think Covid is the least deadly disease in history, but at the same time they only survived because they took Invermectin.
 
dbarila said:
I have trouble following the logic of those that think Covid is the least deadly disease in history, but at the same time they only survived because they took Invermectin.
Click to expand...
They probably look at it like some kind of anti-biotic. But what's in anti-biotics, Cheryl?!? There is no logic there. It does not exist.
 
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