Movies

LeSamourai said:
I'm not really crazy about musicals or West Side Story, really, but after seeing the trailer it looks like Spielberg made something beautiful and truly cinematic with it and my interest is piqued.
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I found it odd they put it out right after Brooklyn Heights
 
kvetcha said:
Genuinely one of my favorite performances of all time.
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A tour de force in cartoon swearing.

I like that each member of the family sits on a different "plane" of Christmas; from day to day I'll feel differently about the holiday, but I'll always grab onto Ralphie's festive zeal, the mother's long-suffering ability to barely hold everyone else together, the old man's gruff-but-self-imposed suffering, or Randy's constant existential bellowing.
 
Bull Shannon said:
A tour de force in cartoon swearing.

I like that each member of the family sits on a different "plane" of Christmas; from day to day I'll feel differently about the holiday, but I'll always grab onto Ralphie's festive zeal, the mother's long-suffering ability to barely hold everyone else together, the old man's gruff-but-self-imposed suffering, or Randy's constant existential bellowing.
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The old man’s beat of wordless rage when the mother says ‘we’re out of glue’ will always send me.
 
West Side Story. OK.

So, I think this is a good, maybe a really good movie. The supporting performances (and one lead performance) are as good as advertised. DeBose in particular is amazing, but I'd go down the list (Zegler, Alvarez, and Faist) and say all were, at worst, plus performances. If any or all of them pop up on awards list I will not be mad. I thought Spielberg largely created an exceptional looking universe that really absorbed the viewer in and even the world-breaking elements of WSS (dance-fighting) worked in this environment. This, in many ways, is better than the 1961 version and really uses the advantages of the film world to full effect. The songs work as well as they ever had and that's not necessarily a credit to the film but the creative decisions made musically all paid off. With a coupe exceptions, I thought the technical/visual effects were very well done too.

With that said, my (and I think in generally) views on the film really do hinge on two things

A. How OK are you with Ansel Elgort. Ansel Elgort is the only name actor behind a main character in this movie (depending on how you feel about Valentina) and, as Anton/Tony, has to carry a lot of the burden. I honestly thought he was bad in this movie. Several of his key reactions didn't hit the emotional tone they needed and he was thoroughly unbelievable in look or action to what I thought the character needed to make the more unbelievable elements of WSS work. His voice is also worse than pretty much everyone else in the cast with singing roles and it shows. The movie really slowed down and struggled in my view whenever he appeared on screen. Independently of this, the sexual assault allegations may cause some viewers to turn away: I don't think that impacted my view of this movie (it could have), but when you look at Anthony Ramos in In The Heights (who does have his own issues to be fair), I think that was my big difference between the two movies. I was rooting for Usnavy to succeed, by the end of the movie, I didn't care how Tony and Maria turned out. I blame Ansel's performance chops and, to be frank, how he looked in this movie. People justifiably got on Ben Platt for playing a teenager in DEH (and that sucked) as a late 20-something, but having Ansel Elgort in a Romeo and Juliet story stretches those confines and I don't think he looked the way you need to drag an entire universe into your orbit in a 24 hour period which leads to...

B. How do you approach WSS' Story. I have seen WSS in a theatre before (stage). I understand it was a huge movie 60 years ago. However, at my core, I'm a movie guy. I care a lot about plotting. I care a lot about having some degree of logic behind the actions of characters in movies that I see. I think WSS story is too thin and implausible for what I look for in movies. Plays, sure, but movies I want something more. I don't want to get into specific moments as it's a new movie out and a lot of people here want to see it, but I had probably 3-5 moments in the movie where the emotional hits felt too implausible or absurd to keep in the realm of good storytelling (and I just watched a movie about a big red dog bringing a city together). Some of it's direction, some of it is the core of the story, some of it is acting, but it all added up to a gross, lovebombing feeling combined with a complete lack of recognition for anyone else that kind of had me hating Tony and Maria by the end of all of this. Again, Romeo and Juliet story but both of these people being adults (as it is in WSS normally but not in R&J) causes that to be a harder sell. I think back to another Ansel Elgort project about star crossed lovers trying to escape the confines of the life built around them and causing issues due to it in Baby Driver, and the Baby/Deb relationship just felt so much more developed and worked out than this did and given how it all concludes, it didn't work for me.

So basically, if you are higher on Ansel's performance in WSS than I am and/or the WSS plotting doesn't bother you (and both are 100% fine and defensible and valid, to be clear), you'll probably love this movie. Even with those two issues I liked this movie a good amount. I'm probably more mad that In The Heights is being buried in awards season because of it (I thought ITH was just a better movie), but you'll likely come out liking at least some of it regardless.

As for the box office, I'm bearish on this. To kvetcha's point, the main box office for WSS are the same people (older, liberal, women) who are not going back to theaters in a COVID environment. Theaters have also been very aggressive in pulling underperforming films off of screens. Spiderman is going to be taking up a ton of screens followed up by several wide, major releases. Normally I'd say WSS would be good counterprogramming, but Sing 2 is going to eat up family dollars, Spiderman general population appeal will hold, House of Gucci may stick around for adult drama, Oscar dramas may re-appear, The Kingsman will be competition for adults looking for a popcorn flick outside of Spiderman, and I don't know what the new Matrix brings in but it's someone for sure. In short, there's a lot of movies and fewer bodies out there to see them. In The Heights, a similarly critically acclaimed, well produced, gorgeous screen musical from this year with some similar demographic points, had a HUGE drop Week 2 despite great word of mouth and less competition. We will see what happens with WSS but it's a hard sell to me. I need to see them prove it with a minimal drop next week.
 
waruv said:
West Side Story. OK.

So, I think this is a good, maybe a really good movie. The supporting performances (and one lead performance) are as good as advertised. DeBose in particular is amazing, but I'd go down the list (Zegler, Alvarez, and Faist) and say all were, at worst, plus performances. If any or all of them pop up on awards list I will not be mad. I thought Spielberg largely created an exceptional looking universe that really absorbed the viewer in and even the world-breaking elements of WSS (dance-fighting) worked in this environment. This, in many ways, is better than the 1961 version and really uses the advantages of the film world to full effect. The songs work as well as they ever had and that's not necessarily a credit to the film but the creative decisions made musically all paid off. With a coupe exceptions, I thought the technical/visual effects were very well done too.

With that said, my (and I think in generally) views on the film really do hinge on two things

A. How OK are you with Ansel Elgort. Ansel Elgort is the only name actor behind a main character in this movie (depending on how you feel about Valentina) and, as Anton/Tony, has to carry a lot of the burden. I honestly thought he was bad in this movie. Several of his key reactions didn't hit the emotional tone they needed and he was thoroughly unbelievable in look or action to what I thought the character needed to make the more unbelievable elements of WSS work. His voice is also worse than pretty much everyone else in the cast with singing roles and it shows. The movie really slowed down and struggled in my view whenever he appeared on screen. Independently of this, the sexual assault allegations may cause some viewers to turn away: I don't think that impacted my view of this movie (it could have), but when you look at Anthony Ramos in In The Heights (who does have his own issues to be fair), I think that was my big difference between the two movies. I was rooting for Usnavy to succeed, by the end of the movie, I didn't care how Tony and Maria turned out. I blame Ansel's performance chops and, to be frank, how he looked in this movie. People justifiably got on Ben Platt for playing a teenager in DEH (and that sucked) as a late 20-something, but having Ansel Elgort in a Romeo and Juliet story stretches those confines and I don't think he looked the way you need to drag an entire universe into your orbit in a 24 hour period which leads to...

B. How do you approach WSS' Story. I have seen WSS in a theatre before (stage). I understand it was a huge movie 60 years ago. However, at my core, I'm a movie guy. I care a lot about plotting. I care a lot about having some degree of logic behind the actions of characters in movies that I see. I think WSS story is too thin and implausible for what I look for in movies. Plays, sure, but movies I want something more. I don't want to get into specific moments as it's a new movie out and a lot of people here want to see it, but I had probably 3-5 moments in the movie where the emotional hits felt too implausible or absurd to keep in the realm of good storytelling (and I just watched a movie about a big red dog bringing a city together). Some of it's direction, some of it is the core of the story, some of it is acting, but it all added up to a gross, lovebombing feeling combined with a complete lack of recognition for anyone else that kind of had me hating Tony and Maria by the end of all of this. Again, Romeo and Juliet story but both of these people being adults (as it is in WSS normally but not in R&J) causes that to be a harder sell. I think back to another Ansel Elgort project about star crossed lovers trying to escape the confines of the life built around them and causing issues due to it in Baby Driver, and the Baby/Deb relationship just felt so much more developed and worked out than this did and given how it all concludes, it didn't work for me.

So basically, if you are higher on Ansel's performance in WSS than I am and/or the WSS plotting doesn't bother you (and both are 100% fine and defensible and valid, to be clear), you'll probably love this movie. Even with those two issues I liked this movie a good amount. I'm probably more mad that In The Heights is being buried in awards season because of it (I thought ITH was just a better movie), but you'll likely come out liking at least some of it regardless.

As for the box office, I'm bearish on this. To kvetcha's point, the main box office for WSS are the same people (older, liberal, women) who are not going back to theaters in a COVID environment. Theaters have also been very aggressive in pulling underperforming films off of screens. Spiderman is going to be taking up a ton of screens followed up by several wide, major releases. Normally I'd say WSS would be good counterprogramming, but Sing 2 is going to eat up family dollars, Spiderman general population appeal will hold, House of Gucci may stick around for adult drama, Oscar dramas may re-appear, The Kingsman will be competition for adults looking for a popcorn flick outside of Spiderman, and I don't know what the new Matrix brings in but it's someone for sure. In short, there's a lot of movies and fewer bodies out there to see them. In The Heights, a similarly critically acclaimed, well produced, gorgeous screen musical from this year with some similar demographic points, had a HUGE drop Week 2 despite great word of mouth and less competition. We will see what happens with WSS but it's a hard sell to me. I need to see them prove it with a minimal drop next week.
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I'm a huge Sondheim fan and a huge musical theater fan. So my criteria of what makes a movie is going to be different. I need to watch ITH because I also love Miranda's work too.

I agree with your analysis of the box office. I also think that you need to wait a tick for Christmas crowds. This would be a movie I would go with my MIL or Mom, and neither is itching to get back into a theater. As a person with kids, Sing 2 is going to win out every time. It's animated and 1960's musical theater is not necessarily something my 10 year old wants to get into right now. And Lady Gaga, bless her heart, but I don't think I could even begin to sit and watch the House of Gucci because of those accents, woof. The Kingsman is perfect for people who want action, but don't necessarily want to wade through, how many Spiderman movies?--and likely targeting Boomers and X-ers with the nostalgia. The Matrix is trying to net X-ers and Millenials with action and no need to dive into some sort of Marvel meta-verse and the nostalgia vibes here are big too. I don't think all is lost for WSS, but they definitely need several Oscar races in order to bolster initial reception.
 
Yeah I love West Side Story - the original broadway recording - and I love musicals in general so that’s why I’m excited. I’m not into Ansel Elgort as a person or an actor so I’m not expecting much there. But this looks like a genuine musical spectacle.

I think In the Heights was very good, but it had some problems. I am a huge fan of that show, so it was nice to see it all blown out and made into a huge film. WSS looks even more…grand? Or fit for the screen?

I guess I get that it might not be a success at the box office. But it probably wouldn’t have been a runaway success anyway. Musicals can be a hard sell for many people, despite it having name recognition already - and it being Spielberg.
 
Watched Don’t Look Up tonight. The critic reviews are very polarized, but
I kinda think the higher viewer score is probably more indicative. If you liked Adam McKay’s prior work and don’t mind some not-so-subtle commentary, it largely works. Especially in a year where a lot of us have finally admitted the world has lost its mind and there has been a severe lack of laughs in the theaters.

Also those two trailers above are hyper promising.
 
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