Movies

I'm surprised to hear so many people use the word "boring" to describe the new Dune movie. I haven't read the book and barely remember the Lynch film, but I thought it was overwhelmingly intense in the theater. I think if I'd been watching at home on HBO max, I might not have felt the same way, though.

yukbon said:
My biggest complaint is (much like @Bull Shannon and @nolalady ) lack of character development. Paul is fleshed out....and that's about it. Jessica, like, the tiniest bit? Everyone else is sort of background. Sometimes really intense background, like Javier Bardem's Stilgar, because he just exudes tiredness and holy shit Jamis again with this will you just shut up plskthx, just by like, blinking slowly and exhaling. Everyone else is just sorta there.
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For this, I felt like the thinness of the characters added to the urgency of the events on-screen. These people are in a disaster situation for most of the run-time, so they don't have time or energy to talk about anything other than how to hopefully not die. While Villeneuve could have inserted flashbacks to break up the action and flesh out the characters, I feel like it would have undercut, for the audience, the immediacy of these characters' struggle to survive (and that feeling of being in the thick of it with them). I also feel like the scale of this story (again, I'm basing this just off the movie - haven't read the novel) is larger, so it wouldn't really make sense to focus as much on the details of individuals with everything else that they have to try to sneak in about the different families and economic, political, religious, historical, and ecological contexts of this universe. My impression from the film was that at least up to this part of the story (where the film ends), the main characters are actually those larger ideas/currents, and the actions of individuals are shaped more by those broader forces than by their own unique passions and personal histories. I actually found it kind of annoying when Paul Atreides gave us those weird Chalamet "I'm trying not to smile" smiles because everything else in the film has this gravitas and intensity to it, and it felt like he's just a silly doofus who doesn't really deserve to live if all these other people are getting slaughtered left and right. It felt like right as the film was ending, though, there was a bit of a sigh of relief that, ok, they made it to relative safety and there might be time in the next film to take a beat to get to know these folks.
 
To expand a bit, I watched Dune in a theater and I'm a newbie to the franchise, but, to me, the "boring" aspect wasn't so much a technical thing. It was a great looking film (if not necessary to see in a theater). My issue is, well, I'll spoil it

The movie takes a lot of pains to emphasize the importance of Paul's visions and future as well as the importance of Chani in these visions. We see a lot of them, we get signs that some of the Fremen think he's a savior, he's seeing a Holy War, etc. It pretty much tells you quickly that the real story is going to take off when he gets there. As such, it really undercuts a lot of the intensity when characters like Leto, Gurney, and Duncan meet their end because they weren't going to be substantial to the main undercurrent of the plot anyway. Like there was never a spitter's chance that Paul was gonna die, so a duel to close the movie is like...okay. I just didn't feel like there were any stakes in this part of the story because the most sympathetic characters (The Fremen) aren't even touched upon until about 2:15 into the movie. To me, it felt like we were watching a malevolent power (Harkonnen) against a largely unsympathetic protagonist family (Atreides) with a ton of world setting for most of the movie.

Ultimately, I wish they just got to the Fremen a bit faster if they're not going to build up the Atreides to be a sympathetic figure as the rest felt pretty pre-determined to the idea of "when is Paul going to meet the Fremen".
 
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waruv said:
To expand a bit, I watched Dune in a theater and I'm a newbie to the franchise, but, to me, the "boring" aspect wasn't so much a technical thing. It was a great looking film (if not necessary to see in a theater). My issue is, well, I'll spoil it

The movie takes a lot of pains to emphasize the importance of Paul's visions and futures as well as the important of Chani in these visions. We see a lot of them, we get signs that some of the Fremen think he's a savior, he's seeing a Holy War, etc. It pretty much tells you quickly that the real story is going to take off when he gets there. As such, it really undercuts a lot of the intensity when characters like Leto, Gurney, and Duncan meet their end because they weren't going to be substantial to the main undercurrent of the plot anyway. Like there was never a spitter's chance that Paul was gonna die, so a duel to close the movie is like...okay. I just didn't feel like there were any stakes in this part of the story because the most sympathetic characters (The Fremen) aren't even touched upon until about 2:15 into the movie. To me, it felt like we were watching a malevolent power (Harkonnen) against a largely unsympathetic protagonist family (Atreides) with a ton of world setting for most of the movies.

Ultimately, I wish they just got to the Fremen a bit faster if they're not going to build up the Atreides to be a sympathetic figure as the rest felt pretty pre-determined to the idea of "when is Paul going to meet the Fremen".
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I think this is a fair criticism of Dune as an object. It is, and really feels like, half a film.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I really enjoyed the DV Dune. I never read the book and like you went back and watched Lynch’s Dune. I agree with all of this. In reading about the history of Lynch’s Dune, I learned that Ridley Scott was originally attached to direct but was in the process of filming Blade Runner and the producers didn’t want to wait to get Dune out and hired Lynch based off of Elephant Man but hadn’t seen any of his other films and Lynch had never read Dune prior to filming. Lynch’s version, if thought of as a Lynch sci-fi film isn’t bad. Also, I understand that they cut like an hour from the film. I am not sure it would have made a huge difference but I think it would be an interesting watch. I would have loved to see what Scott would have done with Dune based on Alien and Blade Runner I think he could have made a very interesting and rich universe. Anyways DV’s version is very well done. I wish it were longer; maybe 3 movies instead of two, but overall it’s beautifully executed and am looking forward to the sequel.
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Melt Face Molly Drop said:
There’s a 3 hour 10 minute special edition of Lynch’s Dune. Curious if anyone’s seen this version and if it helps flesh some things out a bit?
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I do have the extended version of the film, because this nerd's gotta nerd...short answer, no, the extra doesn't make it any more watchable.

In my copy, not everything that Lynch wanted in the film, actually got filmed, so there are story boards and crap that they put up to show you what it was supposed to look like. When I obtained this copy of Dune sometime in the aughts, I realized, maybe for the first time in my adult life, that it was possible for one to go too far down the rabbit hole.
waruv said:
To expand a bit, I watched Dune in a theater and I'm a newbie to the franchise, but, to me, the "boring" aspect wasn't so much a technical thing. It was a great looking film (if not necessary to see in a theater). My issue is, well, I'll spoil it

The movie takes a lot of pains to emphasize the importance of Paul's visions and future as well as the importance of Chani in these visions. We see a lot of them, we get signs that some of the Fremen think he's a savior, he's seeing a Holy War, etc. It pretty much tells you quickly that the real story is going to take off when he gets there. As such, it really undercuts a lot of the intensity when characters like Leto, Gurney, and Duncan meet their end because they weren't going to be substantial to the main undercurrent of the plot anyway. Like there was never a spitter's chance that Paul was gonna die, so a duel to close the movie is like...okay. I just didn't feel like there were any stakes in this part of the story because the most sympathetic characters (The Fremen) aren't even touched upon until about 2:15 into the movie. To me, it felt like we were watching a malevolent power (Harkonnen) against a largely unsympathetic protagonist family (Atreides) with a ton of world setting for most of the movie.

Ultimately, I wish they just got to the Fremen a bit faster if they're not going to build up the Atreides to be a sympathetic figure as the rest felt pretty pre-determined to the idea of "when is Paul going to meet the Fremen".
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I think we come to the same conclusion. It feels like a large portion of the characters you meet at the beginning are throw-aways and not central to the plot. I felt like DV's Dune did a great job showing you some really cool landscapes but didn't do a great job explaining anything.
 
nolalady said:
In my copy, not everything that Lynch wanted in the film, actually got filmed, so there are story boards and crap that they put up to show you what it was supposed to look like. When I obtained this copy of Dune sometime in the aughts, I realized, maybe for the first time in my adult life, that it was possible for one to go too far down the rabbit hole.
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Lynch was on record that the studio (and Dino DeLaurentis personally) messed with his vision and undercut what he wanted to do with the movie, which is why eventually he had his name removed from the credits (and technically it's an Alan Smithee film). In fact he bitched about it so much, so publicly, that de Laurentis tried to call him on it and offered him complete creative control of a movie, but like the barest amount of money possible to do it. Presumably de Laurentis had a proto-surprised-Pikachu-face when Lynch enthusiastically agreed and then came back with Blue Velvet, which is a wonderful and bizarre piece by anyone's measure.
waruv said:
The movie takes a lot of pains to emphasize the importance of Paul's visions and future as well as the importance of Chani in these visions. We see a lot of them, we get signs that some of the Fremen think he's a savior, he's seeing a Holy War, etc. It pretty much tells you quickly that the real story is going to take off when he gets there. As such, it really undercuts a lot of the intensity when characters like Leto, Gurney, and Duncan meet their end because they weren't going to be substantial to the main undercurrent of the plot anyway.
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A lot of this is because of the book's pacing and layout -- Gurney is important in the latter part of the story and Duncan comes back (sort of?) in the latter books (I want to say books 4/5/6 but definitely the last two that Frank Herbert wrote have Duncan Idaho as a central character). Your criticisms are totally spot-on for this book/movie as it is though.
 
zomgbear said:
Disappointing to hear I was looking forward to Soho
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I'll make a case for it, keeping it non-spoiler. It's still an Edgar Wright movie so you get top flight sound and music cues as well as a great overall environment. There are several moments in the movie you get the euphoric rush and beautiful staging. You also get very game performances from Anya Taylor-Joy and the criminally underheralded Thomasin McKenzie (who is the true lead of this movie) and a pretty solid concept. I do think it's a drop off from Wright's best movies in that there are too many underdeveloped characters for their importance to the story, some of the actions taken don't make sense, and (shockingly) I feel like some of the later scenes got repetitive and uninteresting action wise. I think the first 2/3 or so is an A-/B+ movie and the last 1/3 is a C movie which is a true bummer, but there's enough good in there that I'd recommend it to genre fans (as a non genre fan).
 
nolalady said:
I think the director focuses on the most boring parts of the book while throwing away the political intrigue and inter-galactic economics which is really what makes Herbert’s world epic.
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waruv said:
To expand a bit, I watched Dune in a theater and I'm a newbie to the franchise, but, to me, the "boring" aspect wasn't so much a technical thing. It was a great looking film (if not necessary to see in a theater). My issue is, well, I'll spoil it

The movie takes a lot of pains to emphasize the importance of Paul's visions and future as well as the importance of Chani in these visions. We see a lot of them, we get signs that some of the Fremen think he's a savior, he's seeing a Holy War, etc. It pretty much tells you quickly that the real story is going to take off when he gets there. As such, it really undercuts a lot of the intensity when characters like Leto, Gurney, and Duncan meet their end because they weren't going to be substantial to the main undercurrent of the plot anyway. Like there was never a spitter's chance that Paul was gonna die, so a duel to close the movie is like...okay. I just didn't feel like there were any stakes in this part of the story because the most sympathetic characters (The Fremen) aren't even touched upon until about 2:15 into the movie. To me, it felt like we were watching a malevolent power (Harkonnen) against a largely unsympathetic protagonist family (Atreides) with a ton of world setting for most of the movie.

Ultimately, I wish they just got to the Fremen a bit faster if they're not going to build up the Atreides to be a sympathetic figure as the rest felt pretty pre-determined to the idea of "when is Paul going to meet the Fremen".
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I thought the Atreides family were sympathetic because it seemed like they were trying to be decent and diplomatic within the role that was forced upon them. They just seemed like cogs in the larger machinery to me.

Paul, in particular, seemed sympathetic because his mom put him in the weird position and has been hiding all these secrets from him about what she’s been grooming him for, but she also came off to me like a fiercely caring mother who was trying to do what she thought was right. He also seemed to go out of his way to signal his respect and empathy for the Fremen and also the workers that were in danger and needed to be rescued on that spice harvester thing. I don’t remember any comments he made or actions he took that made him seem selfish or unsympathetic.

For the deaths of Leto and Idaho [I don’t really remember Gurney’s death?] - I didn’t really know until they died that they weren’t going to factor into the future of this narrative, so their deaths were all pretty shocking to me (technically, for Leto, it was the betrayal that led to his death which was shocking, but you know what I mean). The way the movie started off, it seemed like there was order and everything was planned and deliberate and then when the Harkonnens started attacking, it was like the whole universe tilted sideways and I had no idea who would survive anymore.
 
Watching this one tonight here, when Cash respectively stood up to Nixon
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ReMastered: Tricky Dick and the Man in Black (TV Movie 2018) - IMDb

ReMastered: Tricky Dick and the Man in Black: Directed by Sara Dosa, Barbara Kopple. With Johnny Cash, Richard Nixon, Aram Bakshian, Pat Buchanan. Concerned by a rising rock-n-roll influence on a growing liberal fanbase, President Nixon invited Johnny Cash to the White House to solidify his base...
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Apropos of nothing: I think the descent of Bruce Willis into mostly DTV fare is kind of fascinating. I've read a few pieces on the whys (and listened to folks like Kevin Smith share their experiences working with him), but it's still interesting to me. Out of nowhere today I looked up his IMDb page. Guy currently has 12 (!) movies in post-production, including a film AND its sequel, and another in pre-production. He has been in 13 more films that have all been released since 2019.

I know a lot has been made of his sort of muted fall from grace as an A-list blockbuster star and his consistently somnolent acting over the last 20 years, but the sheer volume of the garbage he's turning out now is pretty astounding. >5 films a year, every year, for 5 years. Everybody knows the stories behind Nic Cage needing the money, or Liam Neeson needing to take his mind off his grief, but what's the deal here? Why does Bruce Willis have to work *this much?*
 
Indymisanthrope said:
Apropos of nothing: I think the descent of Bruce Willis into mostly DTV fare is kind of fascinating. I've read a few pieces on the whys (and listened to folks like Kevin Smith share their experiences working with him), but it's still interesting to me. Out of nowhere today I looked up his IMDb page. Guy currently has 12 (!) movies in post-production, including a film AND its sequel, and another in pre-production. He has been in 13 more films that have all been released since 2019.

I know a lot has been made of his sort of muted fall from grace as an A-list blockbuster star and his consistently somnolent acting over the last 20 years, but the sheer volume of the garbage he's turning out now is pretty astounding. >5 films a year, every year, for 5 years. Everybody knows the stories behind Nic Cage needing the money, or Liam Neeson needing to take his mind off his grief, but what's the deal here? Why does Bruce Willis have to work *this much?*
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zomgbear said:
workaholism
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yukbon said:
in fact I just heard a podcast about specifically this, Podcasting Day: Out of DEATH 🌭 - 1900HOTDOG -- it's not workaholism since all of the 'new' stuff he's doing is basically 1-day shoots and they're just quick cash-ins
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It's interesting how many co-stars or writers pop up across these films also. Corey Large, Swen Tremmel, and Edward Drake all show up repeatedly. And I would not have ever predicted that latter-day Bruce Willis would join Chad Michael Murray for top billing this many times.

Edit: corporate IT does not want me visiting 1900hotdog.com for some reason.
 
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