Movies

Bull Shannon said:
Yeah, I think they realized that ending movie one with Neo being Computer Jesus painted them into a corner. I do think they took a savvy path by trying to question and subvert the messiah narrative, even if they get clumsy with it. I think the idea of this all being cyclical is cool, and this time around I picked up more on the key difference in Neo: while all the previous Ones were in love with humanity and wanted to save everyone, Neo simply loves Trinity, and puts her before humanity. The movie could maybe underline that a bit better, but it’s fine.

As for your thoughts, I overall think you’re right; the first movie ends on a note and with strands that the sequels aren’t especially concerned with:

1. After the sequels, I wonder more if those kids in the Oracle’s living room are programs under her protection, like Sati in Revolutions. But I can’t say for sure. Definitely hoping to see Spoon Boy in 4.

2. I think Neo’s message is to the machines; he’s telling them he’s going to “show them a world without you.” He doesn’t know what comes next, and he places that choice in their hands. Imo the movie does end on this note of “he’s going to save the world by…flying….???”
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Good call on the protective custody angle of the first question, that’s not a bad theory. It raises another question though: who gets unplugged, and why? In the first film, Tank and Dozer are the only crew members of the Nebuchadnezzar to have been born naturally, in Zion. Everyone else has a neck port so, following the rules established by the film, they were all woken up, probably as children. By whom? When? For what reason? Were they all at one time candidates for The One? If not, what other circumstances lead to one being extracted from the matrix? The sequels ask the audience to invest some emotion in characters who the films signal to us are important, but the in media res nature of the narrative prevents us from first knowing them enough to truly care.

And you’re right, he’s talking to the machines in that message, I forgot. I guess I always thought that one interesting component of the matrix is that everyday people aren’t too blind to be able to recognize when weird stuff is going on around them (like the cops recognizing superhuman rooftop jumps, for example). So I had harbored some desire for the sequels being about Neo taking the fight public, as it were. Demonstrating his godlike nature out in the open and/or hijacking the network itself to “broadcast” the truth. When I was a teenager who heard that the 3rd film was going to be called Revolutions, I was imagining an uprising of a (sorry) redpilled world.

Agree that the messianic stuff is tricky, especially for a character who is truly a blank slate (we don’t know ANYthing about Thomas Anderson before—or after—he meets Morpheus, although that would only help so much, since that life only exists as computer code). Blank Check rightly notes that the Wachowskis have veered really far away from the messianic stuff by the time they get to Cloud Atlas and start pushing the thought that actually everyone and everything are equally important and connected.

Looking forward to what Resurrections has to say, particularly after the years since the Wachowskis have both transitioned and seen so many of their concepts subsumed into toxic culture. I’m going to go into it with low expectations for tight plotting but high expectations for a lot of ideas to reflect on later.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Man, between al the Lost conversation in the Television thread and Matrix discussion here I feel like I’ve transported back to the early 2000s. What’s everyone’s views on Arcade Fire’s Funeral?
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I think Illinoise deserves the praise, but Michigan deserves love for how emotionally raw it is. What state d'ya think Sufjan's doing next???
 
Indymisanthrope said:
One of the things they say a lot in those episodes is that Reloaded and Revolutions “weren’t what I wanted, but there was also no obvious direction to take the story so nothing would have made me happy.”

I’ve always thought the series failed to capitalize on the promise of two things in the first film:
  1. When Neo goes to see the Oracle, there are other candidates there to be evaluated as possibly being The One. And they’re all kids (because the film explicitly tells us that they almost never unplug adults because their brains can’t take it). And some of these kids have enough ‘power’ to do things like bend the no-spoon at will. But we never get to learn any more about what it means to have other “super powered” people in this world. Are agents also chasing them? Are they in danger? Have they been unplugged? Are other captains like Morpheus escorting them to the Oracle? If so, why does Morpheus get talked about as if he’s a lone zealot? What function do these other non-One aberrations serve in the matrix? (Been a while since I watched 2&3 so I forget if some of these questions end up getting touched on.)
  2. Neo’s phone message at the end of the film is ostensibly a call to Humanity, without specifying any particular individual on the other end of the call. But he’s outlining a mission statement to wake people up. All people. Adults. And he’s a genuine Superman within this world, an unstoppable force. It’s an exciting ending, and maybe they ultimately decided it wasn’t rich enough to serve as the basis for the sequels, but the hard turns away from the coda of the first movie were confusing, I think. Maybe the best solution would be to just remove that from the first movie altogether so that it didn’t set up those expectations in the first place.
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Here's my thoughts just looking at some of these questions and how I interpreted it.
Its my impression that the potentially "the one" kids waiting for the Oracle have been freed - and are those that have been freed because they are young as you mentioned. Its probably Morpheus bringing it to her because according to to the oracle Morpheus will find the one. So wouldn't other ppl finding kids be a waste of time? Also curious about these super powered kids as well but my guess is they're helpful to the cause even if they're not the one.

I agree that the original Matrix was very standalone but I enjoyed the sequels as well but if Resurrection were to drop them from cannon - i wouldn't be mad either.

I also need to rewatch Cloud Atlas - I only watched it once in theaters and thought it was way too long.
 
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TenderLovingKiller® said:
Man, between al the Lost conversation in the Television thread and Matrix discussion here I feel like I’ve transported back to the early 2000s. What’s everyone’s views on Arcade Fire’s Funeral?
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I did not read it, but i swear to you, i saw an article headline Indie Rock's most overated albums and it had a picture of Funeral as the backdrop.

EDIT Found it, sorry it was the suburbs
whatculture.com

10 Most Overrated Indie Rock Albums Of All Time

Critical pet projects, rose tinted nostalgia acts, and plain duds.
whatculture.com whatculture.com
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Man, between al the Lost conversation in the Television thread and Matrix discussion here I feel like I’ve transported back to the early 2000s. What’s everyone’s views on Arcade Fire’s Funeral?
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Weridly, for no discernible reason I found myself wanting to listen to Arcade Fire's Neon Bible this morning...
 
LeeVing said:
I probably won't get to a theater to see it, but I'll watch it as soon as I can. I'll give anything Robert Eggers makes a look. The Witch and The Lighthouse are 2 of my favorites in the last 5 years.
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Yeah, I guess I feel weird when I say he's one of my favorite directors because he only has two movies under his belt so far, but the quality of those two is so high that I think it's justified. I hope he goes 3 for 3 with this one.

Also, I wonder if his Nosferatu remake is still happening. The original is one of my favorite movies ever made and he is one of the few I'd trust to do it justice.
 
gaporter said:
Yeah, I guess I feel weird when I say he's one of my favorite directors because he only has two movies under his belt so far, but the quality of those two is so high that I think it's justified. I hope he goes 3 for 3 with this one.

Also, I wonder if his Nosferatu remake is still happening. The original is one of my favorite movies ever made and he is one of the few I'd trust to do it justice.
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Word is it's up next: https://collider.com/anya-taylor-joy-new-horror-movie-robert-eggers-nosferatu-remake/
 
So The Matrix Resurrections…

was okay. I got pretty excited for it and some of it I actually really enjoyed. The stuff critics seem to hate about it is what drew me in the most. The whole opening stuff where The Matrix is a game trilogy made by Thomas Anderson just hooked me. I liked the goofy meta nature of it. Of course that didn’t last long. The interactions / love story between Neo and Trinity is the best aspect of the film but there’s not enough of it cause most of the movie is just trying to free Trinity. But the ending sequence is cool as it delivers a lot of the fun spectacle action of the originals - as far as I remember. I do want to rewatch them now.

As far as philosophical commentaries go, I’m going to have to think about this one some more cause I don’t know what kind of point it’s trying to make. In the end a lot of the journey felt sort of pointless. But it’s alright.
 
One random thing in the new Matrix I’m trying to find an answer to, and I won’t tag it as spoilers cause it’s not anything. But there is a sequence where a couple of people fighting are wearing face masks. It’s obvious and right there, but nobody else in the scene wears them. In fact they never show up in the movie again. Does anyone know why that is? It was just strange to see and I can’t find an explanation.
 
Da Matrix:

It was not bad! Very audacious. I’d say the barometer for your enjoyment is whether you still think “The Matrix is such a good movie, such a shame they never made any sequels” jokes are pithy and relevant. Love that it’s a blockbuster about empowerment and love fighting complacency and despair.

That said, I thought the action was poorly shot, and all the new characters had zero room to become interesting. Sometimes I liked the colorful cinematography; sometimes it looked flat and cheap.

so, while I don’t think this movie is as strange and confusing as some are saying (especially if you keep the sequels in mind), but someone ‘splain me how Bugs saw The Thomas Anderson, knew he was Neo, became aware and unplugged from The Matrix, then had trouble finding one of the more famous humans inside the Matrix? I think there was a line about him being well hidden, but I dunno man…I was also confused how Morpheus 2.0 could be a program running once in a modal but also have a backstory involving Neo helping him see the light. Does that mean his history was programmed into him?

I’d also love to see a bit more of what this hew matrix is like. The matrix scenes in the beginning are so focused on Neo, then the ins and outs of it are largely abandoned for the Save Trinity plot. It’s really interesting to think 1) the matrix destabilizes regularly whenever Neo glances towards awareness, and 2) the “doom scrolling/social media” bent of the new matrix allows bonkers shit to go down like swam mode, and we all either ignore it or are easily reset back to “reality.”

Also some really odd imagery in this movie around psychiatry and suicide, both in Neo’s attempts to break out, and the final swarm mode action sequence with people dropping out of skyscrapers. My jaw dropped at that last part especially; it was so grim.
 
Bull Shannon said:
Da Matrix:

It was not bad! Very audacious. I’d say the barometer for your enjoyment is whether you still think “The Matrix is such a good movie, such a shame they never made any sequels” jokes are pithy and relevant. Love that it’s a blockbuster about empowerment and love fighting complacency and despair.

That said, I thought the action was poorly shot, and all the new characters had zero room to become interesting. Sometimes I liked the colorful cinematography; sometimes it looked flat and cheap.

so, while I don’t think this movie is as strange and confusing as some are saying (especially if you keep the sequels in mind), but someone ‘splain me how Bugs saw The Thomas Anderson, knew he was Neo, became aware and unplugged from The Matrix, then had trouble finding one of the more famous humans inside the Matrix? I think there was a line about him being well hidden, but I dunno man…I was also confused how Morpheus 2.0 could be a program running once in a modal but also have a backstory involving Neo helping him see the light. Does that mean his history was programmed into him?

I’d also love to see a bit more of what this hew matrix is like. The matrix scenes in the beginning are so focused on Neo, then the ins and outs of it are largely abandoned for the Save Trinity plot. It’s really interesting to think 1) the matrix destabilizes regularly whenever Neo glances towards awareness, and 2) the “doom scrolling/social media” bent of the new matrix allows bonkers shit to go down like swam mode, and we all either ignore it or are easily reset back to “reality.”

Also some really odd imagery in this movie around psychiatry and suicide, both in Neo’s attempts to break out, and the final swarm mode action sequence with people dropping out of skyscrapers. My jaw dropped at that last part especially; it was so grim.
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oh yeah the suicide-style bomber people was bizarre and very dark. I’m not sure why that was a thing. And yeah now that you mention it the inclusion of therapy and suicide is interesting and weird. I’m not sure it connects in a good way to some theme or some point.
 
Bennnnn said:
oh yeah the suicide-style bomber people was bizarre and very dark. I’m not sure why that was a thing. And yeah now that you mention it the inclusion of therapy and suicide is interesting and weird. I’m not sure it connects in a good way to some theme or some point.
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I kind of interpreted it in the context of the pandemic where people are manipulated into destroying themselves. Made sense after the analyst said he was using fear and manipulation to make this version of the matrix more energy-efficient.
 
New Matrix rules and haters can suck it. Unlike the MCU you can tell people actually fuck in that world.

The action wasn't quite as good as the first two (the third one is mostly just a war epic after the Merovingian club scene), but it was just nice to back in that world and have something so idiosyncratic and focused on themes of love and hope. Other sentimentalists get in, we're going to the bondage clubs!
 
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