Hot Take/ Musical Confession Thread!

I think they're both crap. The main difference being I can name a couple TS songs. Also, Shake It Off is actually good. Can't say that about a single FJM(PP) song. I can listen to a TS album start to finish and just ponder how it gets the attention it does. Can't finish a FJM album.

So, if I had to pick one or die a horrible death I'd pick TS.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Because you don't give most of the men who praise Father John Misty as one of the greatest songwriters oh his generation enough credit?
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Perhaps. 🤔 FWIW I like some of FJM's work, but my post was less about the merits of FJM himself and more about the prevalent train of thought that still perseveres in a lot of snobby music circles that Taylor Swift can't possibly be considered a great songwriter because her work tends to be marketed towards the masses. Also, the difference in how someone like Taylor and someone like FJM are treated in a lot of music circles. You don't need to look very far on this very forum to find posts detailing how much Taylor Swift sucks and how little she deserves her success and popularity. And for the most part, these posts don't get a lot of pushback, because it's pretty much expected and accepted at this point in male-driven music circles to say that Taylor Swift is overrated and her music sucks. But when someone does the same to FJM, suddenly several posters come out of the woodwork to defend him. My only real point is that some (unfortunately, I need to put emphasis on some) of the guys that deify FJM can't handle it when someone shows that same reverence to a "popular" artist. Obviously that does not apply to every FJM fan, but I've known enough elitist snobs in my life to tell you it applies to at least a couple.

Really though, let's be fair, neither FJM or T-Swizzle really need to be defended. Both are among the most acclaimed artists in their respective fields so I'm not trying to proclaim one as better than the other necessarily. There's things I like and dislike about both artists personally. But I do think it's bullshit when Taylor gets looked down upon and has her accolades minimized because of the type of music she makes.
 
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gaporter said:
Perhaps. 🤔 FWIW I like some of FJM's work, but my post was less about the merits of FJM himself and more about the prevalent train of thought that still perseveres in a lot of snobby music circles that Taylor Swift can't possibly be considered a great songwriter because her work tends to be marketed towards the masses. Also, the difference in how someone like Taylor and someone like FJM are treated in a lot of music circles. You don't need to look very far on this very forum to find posts detailing how much Taylor Swift sucks and how little she deserves her success and popularity. And for the most part, these posts don't get a lot of pushback, because it's pretty much expected and accepted at this point in male-driven music circles to say that Taylor Swift is overrated and her music sucks. But when someone does the same to FJM, suddenly several posters come out of the woodwork to defend him. My only real point is that some (unfortunately, I need to put emphasis on some) of the guys that deify FJM can't handle it when someone shows that same reverence is shown to a "popular" artist. Obviously that does not apply to every FJM fan, but I've known enough elitist snobs in my life to tell you it applies to at least a couple.

Really though, let's be fair, neither FJM or T-Swizzle really need to be defended. Both are among the most acclaimed artists in their respective fields so I'm not trying to proclaim one as better than the other necessarily. There's things I like and dislike about both artists personally. But I do think it's bullshit when Taylor gets looked down upon and has her accolades minimized because of the type of music she makes.
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Don’t you know she makes music with The National now so all the indie boys are allowed to take her seriously!

Now thats the attitude surrounding her that pisses me off more than any of the others.
 
gaporter said:
Perhaps. 🤔 FWIW I like some of FJM's work, but my post was less about the merits of FJM himself and more about the prevalent train of thought that still perseveres in a lot of snobby music circles that Taylor Swift can't possibly be considered a great songwriter because her work tends to be marketed towards the masses. Also, the difference in how someone like Taylor and someone like FJM are treated in a lot of music circles. You don't need to look very far on this very forum to find posts detailing how much Taylor Swift sucks and how little she deserves her success and popularity. And for the most part, these posts don't get a lot of pushback, because it's pretty much expected and accepted at this point in male-driven music circles to say that Taylor Swift is overrated and her music sucks. But when someone does the same to FJM, suddenly several posters come out of the woodwork to defend him. My only real point is that some (unfortunately, I need to put emphasis on some) of the guys that deify FJM can't handle it when someone shows that same reverence to a "popular" artist. Obviously that does not apply to every FJM fan, but I've known enough elitist snobs in my life to tell you it applies to at least a couple.

Really though, let's be fair, neither FJM or T-Swizzle really need to be defended. Both are among the most acclaimed artists in their respective fields so I'm not trying to proclaim one as better than the other necessarily. There's things I like and dislike about both artists personally. But I do think it's bullshit when Taylor gets looked down upon and has her accolades minimized because of the type of music she makes.
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Yeah, you’re implying was that because the FJM persona is that of a pretentious male ass that most of his male fan’s find him relatable and thus could not have the breadth to appreciate Taylor Swift for her talents.

I respectfully disagree with this generalization.

It sounds like your issues are more with people don’t appreciate Taylor Swift than those who do appreciate FJM.
 
While I know none of these opinions can exist in a vacuum, the idea that liking FJM more than Taylor Swift is somehow a tacit agreement with "The Patriarchy" is kind of hard argument to defend against.

I don't like Taylor swift simply because none of her songs resonate with me. Maybe it's because I wasn't a twenty-something female and songs about being broken up with by a boy would never really land as hard as they were intended to. To subjectively say that a man doesn't like a female artist because of gender bias and not any other reason is reductive.

The thing about FJM's music for me was his self-deprecating humor, witty observations of the human condition, and ultimately his musical delivery of those messages. Not that his messages are any better or less important than Taylor's.

Really not trying to pile on Gap here. Valid points were made. I just didn't want to get lumped into the "some men" category.
 
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Joe Mac said:
Don’t you know she makes music with The National now so all the indie boys are allowed to take her seriously!

Now thats the attitude surrounding her that pisses me off more than any of the others.
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I am an “Indie Boy” who enjoys The National and did not enjoy Folklore. I find Taylor Swifts music the most appealing when it is at its most poppiest, IMO her best album was 1989 with the albums on either aide of it a tier or two under.

Opinions are like assholes everyone has them and nobody thinks theirs stink.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I am an “Indie Boy” who enjoys The National and did not enjoy Folklore. I find Taylor Swifts music the most appealing when it is at its most poppiest, IMO her best album was 1989 with the albums on either aide of it a tier or two under.

Opinions are like assholes everyone has them and nobody thinks theirs stink.
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I don't think you quite get what I meant.

I'm hitting out at the attitude, and I've seen all over the net including on here, that it is only now ok to like her because they've imbued some kind of bullshit credibility on her.
 
Joe Mac said:
Don’t you know she makes music with The National now so all the indie boys are allowed to take her seriously!

Now thats the attitude surrounding her that pisses me off more than any of the others.
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I'm going to have to correct you right there. She makes music with one member of the National (Aaron Desner), and Justin Vermon.

Same applies to the TS stans who all of a sudden appreciates indie rock and the likes of Big Red Machine and its affiliated bands because she is featured on two songs. 🤷‍♂️
 
Joe Mac said:
I don't think you quite get what I meant.

I'm hitting out at the attitude, and I've seen all over the net including on here, that it is only now ok to like her because they've imbued some kind of bullshit credibility on her.
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I guess I don’t spend a lot of time places where Taylor Swift is unfairly maligned or persecuted. Especially on here I have always been pleasantly surprised by the amount of middle-aged men who eagerly purchase her albums.
 
CrazyDiamond84 said:
I dont think Swift and FJM are the best comparisons for anything. One is arguably the biggest mainstrean artist of this generation while the other is an indie rock dude that if I stopped the first 10 people on the street, maybe 1 of them have heard of him.
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This. If anything, compare her to another pop star like Harry Styles or Bruno Mars.

I will say that kind of puts into perspective the strength of her output for the last 15 years or whatever, so I'll give her that.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Yeah, you’re implying was that because the FJM persona is that of a pretentious male ass that most of his male fan’s find him relatable and thus could not have the breadth to appreciate Taylor Swift for her talents.

I respectfully disagree with this generalization.

It sounds like your issues are more with people don’t appreciate Taylor Swift than those who do appreciate FJM.
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folsom_lives said:
While I know none of these opinions can exist in a vacuum, the idea that liking FJM more than Taylor Swift is somehow a tacit agreement with "The Patriarchy" is kind of hard argument to defend against.

I don't like Taylor swift simply because none of her songs resonate with me. Maybe it's because I wasn't a twenty-something female and songs about being broken up with by a boy would never really land as hard as they were intended to. To subjectively say that a man doesn't like a female artist because of gender bias and not any other reason is reductive.

The thing about FJM's music for me was his self-deprecating humor, witty observations of the human condition, and ultimately his musical delivery of those messages. Not that his messages are any better or less important than Taylor's.

Really not trying to pile on Gap here. Valid points were made. I just didn't want to get lumped into the some men" category.
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The unfortunate truth of this thread is that hot takes don't typically lend themselves to nuance, and no matter how much you try to present a more balanced view, it's the more incendiary parts of your post that will be zeroed in on. It's mostly my fault due to poor wording, but I'll try once again to present what I was trying to say in my original post.

I'll be blunt and say I probably enjoy FJM and Taylor close to equal amounts; that is to say, in moderate amounts. It's fair to say both artists have personas to a certain degree. My post was taking issue with elitist snobs of any gender that invariably look down on what's popular. I support liking both artists and that was in fact my entire argument. My first post about FJM and Taylor was a pretty quick off-the-cuff post that I didn't really intend to carry that much weight. In hindsight, I should have known a post that can be read as accusing an artist's fanbase in it's entirety of a quality would rustle feathers. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I would like to live in a world where liking I Love You, Honeybear and 1989 were treated with the same level of respect, but even the grand power of "poptimism" is no much for good old-fashioned indie elitism. Once again, I feel the need to state that I realize not every FJM is a snob, and generalizing an entire artist's fanbase as such is not an attitude I agree with. However, I see now my posts in here can be read as exactly that and for that, I apologize. That said, I still think the fact that Taylor gets an absurd of amount of vitriol thrown her way for daring to be a successful female singer-songwriter is an argument that exists outside of FJM and bringing him into it just muddles that point.
 
gaporter said:
The unfortunate truth of this thread is that hot takes don't typically lend themselves to nuance, and no matter how much you try to present a more balanced view, it's the more incendiary parts of your post that will be zeroed in on. It's mostly my fault due to poor wording, but I'll try once again to present what I was trying to say in my original post.

I'll be blunt and say I probably enjoy FJM and Taylor close to equal amounts; that is to say, in moderate amounts. It's fair to say both artists have personas to a certain degree. My post was taking issue with elitist snobs of any gender that invariably look down on what's popular. I support liking both artists and that was in fact my entire argument. My first post about FJM and Taylor was a pretty quick off-the-cuff post that I didn't really intend to carry that much weight. In hindsight, I should have known a post that can be read as accusing an artist's fanbase in it's entirety of a quality would rustle feathers. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I would like to live in a world where liking I Love You, Honeybear and 1989 were treated with the same level of respect, but even the grand power of "poptimism" is no much for good old-fashioned indie elitism. Once again, I feel the need to state that I realize not every FJM is a snob, and generalizing an entire artist's fanbase as such is not an attitude I agree with. However, I see now my posts in here can be read as exactly that and for that, I apologize. That said, I still think the fact that Taylor gets an absurd of amount of vitriol thrown her way for daring to be a successful female singer-songwriter is an argument that exists outside of FJM and bringing him into it just muddles that point.
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No hard feelings Gap!
 
gaporter said:
The unfortunate truth of this thread is that hot takes don't typically lend themselves to nuance, and no matter how much you try to present a more balanced view, it's the more incendiary parts of your post that will be zeroed in on. It's mostly my fault due to poor wording, but I'll try once again to present what I was trying to say in my original post.

I'll be blunt and say I probably enjoy FJM and Taylor close to equal amounts; that is to say, in moderate amounts. It's fair to say both artists have personas to a certain degree. My post was taking issue with elitist snobs of any gender that invariably look down on what's popular. I support liking both artists and that was in fact my entire argument. My first post about FJM and Taylor was a pretty quick off-the-cuff post that I didn't really intend to carry that much weight. In hindsight, I should have known a post that can be read as accusing an artist's fanbase in it's entirety of a quality would rustle feathers. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I would like to live in a world where liking I Love You, Honeybear and 1989 were treated with the same level of respect, but even the grand power of "poptimism" is no much for good old-fashioned indie elitism. Once again, I feel the need to state that I realize not every FJM is a snob, and generalizing an entire artist's fanbase as such is not an attitude I agree with. However, I see now my posts in here can be read as exactly that and for that, I apologize. That said, I still think the fact that Taylor gets an absurd of amount of vitriol thrown her way for daring to be a successful female singer-songwriter is an argument that exists outside of FJM and bringing him into it just muddles that point.
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No stress. FJM is not a hill worthy of dying on.

Now if any of you decide to come after Robin Pecknold...

anchorman-trident.gif
 
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