Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

apholden said:
I think your best bet is to find an online store with a generous return policy.
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thats.. the hard part...

sites like LP Gear or turntable lab say its ONLY for if you get defective and if its unused
 
gafacaode said:
I feel really dumb asking this but the JoLida would replace my Denon and would still be using my Vincent pre-amp, correct?
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That’s right, you’d run your phonostage through the aux input on the Jolida and switch the bypass to on. I’m really happy with my Jolida and bought that same 6802 with the 6550 tubes that @HiFi Guy mentioned from Underwood.

duke86fan said:
what do you do to try out gear if a hifi shop doesn't have it

thinking about this because the closest hifi shop (40 minutes away), only has ortofon cartridges so its hard to test whether id take their blue, a newer grado, or a nagaoka (and i definitely cant do a super in depth test that would fit my listening habits). i just know i wanna upgrade from the 75 dollar or so black to something more high quality
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I ended up getting my Nagaoka MP-200 from a Japanese seller on eBay and believe I would have been able to make a return on it if needed. I’m probably around 50 hours in and loving it so far.
 
duke86fan said:
what do you do to try out gear if a hifi shop doesn't have it

thinking about this because the closest hifi shop (40 minutes away), only has ortofon cartridges so its hard to test whether id take their blue, a newer grado, or a nagaoka (and i definitely cant do a super in depth test that would fit my listening habits). i just know i wanna upgrade from the 75 dollar or so black to something more high quality
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There are a few options for trying gear that you can't demo in local hifi shops, but they generally aren't cost effective or easy. Especially for entry and midrange gear.

- Order from a dealer with a return policy (phone calls can go a long way, but probably not for carts unfortunately)
- Try to meet people via various forums and try to find someone in your area to meet up (I drove over an hour to meet up to hear Zus)
- But it and try it, even if you might be out some money. Buying lightly used or open box makes this more manageable
- Travel: if you go somewhere like LA or NYC for a vacation or a business trip, you can find dealers for most things. Just carve out some time to visit shops and demo gear.

If you can't do any of these things, you just need to buy things you have been able to hear and stop your wondering eyes. There will always be something "better." At some point you either bite the bullet and dive in blind, or you spin your wheels until the hobby isn't fun anymore.
 
HiFi Guy said:
They don’t fall short at all, quality or sound wise. The are pretty awesome. The deal killer for me with Decware is no remote.

Nelson Pass said it best- and I’m paraphrasing here: It doesn’t matter how many watts you have if the first one sounds like shit.

Maybe @wooha can jump in. He is rocking 2 whole watts per channel, and gets complaints from his neighbors.
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@dansomeone Output watts isn't all that useful of a metric until you consider your speaker sensitivity. Very insensitive speakers need a lot more watts than very sensitive speakers do. My speakers have around 99 dB sensitivity (very high), and I get complaints from my neighbors with my volume nob up turned up only about 30% of max, with my 2 watt amp.

See the chart about halfway down the page here: DECWARE Amplifier Buying Guide
If your speakers are 84 dB sensitivity, you're probably going to want to have at least 20 watts, whereas if you are at 90+ dB you're probably going to be ok with 2 watts.

Also remember that this isn't a linear scale situation... from the top of that page: "Our 2 watt amplifier paired with a 94 dB speaker will achieve the same loudness, bass and dynamics as an 83 dB speaker will with 32 watts. Using the same comparison, the 94 dB speaker will be almost 400% faster making things like resolution, linearity and transient response far more appealing than the 83 dB speaker."

That idea is why many have been able to achieve amazing sonic output with a properly synergized low-wattage SET system.
 
wooha said:
@dansomeone Output watts isn't all that useful of a metric until you consider your speaker sensitivity. Very insensitive speakers need a lot more watts than very sensitive speakers do. My speakers have around 99 dB sensitivity (very high), and I get complaints from my neighbors with my volume nob up turned up only about 30% of max, with my 2 watt amp.

See the chart about halfway down the page here: DECWARE Amplifier Buying Guide
If your speakers are 84 dB sensitivity, you're probably going to want to have at least 20 watts, whereas if you are at 90+ dB you're probably going to be ok with 2 watts.

Also remember that this isn't a linear scale situation... from the top of that page: "Our 2 watt amplifier paired with a 94 dB speaker will achieve the same loudness, bass and dynamics as an 83 dB speaker will with 32 watts. Using the same comparison, the 94 dB speaker will be almost 400% faster making things like resolution, linearity and transient response far more appealing than the 83 dB speaker."

That idea is why many have been able to achieve amazing sonic output with a properly synergized low-wattage SET system.
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SOLD! I've already preordered a set of Zu Omen DWs, which should check the high sensitivity box. Then comes the SE84UFO. Stick to the plan, Dan. Stick to the plan.
 
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displayname said:
There are a few options for trying gear that you can't demo in local hifi shops, but they generally aren't cost effective or easy. Especially for entry and midrange gear.

- Order from a dealer with a return policy (phone calls can go a long way, but probably not for carts unfortunately)
- Try to meet people via various forums and try to find someone in your area to meet up (I drove over an hour to meet up to hear Zus)
- But it and try it, even if you might be out some money. Buying lightly used or open box makes this more manageable
- Travel: if you go somewhere like LA or NYC for a vacation or a business trip, you can find dealers for most things. Just carve out some time to visit shops and demo gear.

If you can't do any of these things, you just need to buy things you have been able to hear and stop your wondering eyes. There will always be something "better." At some point you either bite the bullet and dive in blind, or you spin your wheels until the hobby isn't fun anymore.
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thanks.. im a little nervous about open box and lightly used because i get paranoid with used stuff.. i could do the buy and try and then if it sucks sell it on ebay... though i am hoping to find something pretty good between the ortofon blue, grado red/gold, and nagaoka MP110

(though after i buy a schiit magni so i can know what improvements i really want to make in my system seeing as i dunno what difference it would make)
 
duke86fan said:
thanks.. im a little nervous about open box and lightly used because i get paranoid with used stuff.. i could do the buy and try and then if it sucks sell it on ebay... though i am hoping to find something pretty good between the ortofon blue, grado red/gold, and nagaoka MP110

(though after i buy a schiit magni so i can know what improvements i really want to make in my system seeing as i dunno what difference it would make)
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My 2 cents on open box, if you're buying them from a reputable dealer/vendor with a good return policy you'll be fine. That being said, my Prima Luna amp, Marantz HD-CD1, and Zu speakers were all "Open Box" and showed up literally in new condition ;)
 
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dansomeone said:
SOLD! I've already preordered a set of Zu Omen DWs, which should check the high sensitivity box. Then comes the SE84UFO. Stick to the plan, Dan. Stick to the plan.
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One more thing to consider- an 8 ohm speaker running on the 8 ohm taps will will get the rated output from the amplifier. DWs are 12 ohms, so you’ll only get 75% of rated power.
 
duke86fan said:
thanks.. im a little nervous about open box and lightly used because i get paranoid with used stuff.. i could do the buy and try and then if it sucks sell it on ebay... though i am hoping to find something pretty good between the ortofon blue, grado red/gold, and nagaoka MP110

(though after i buy a schiit magni so i can know what improvements i really want to make in my system seeing as i dunno what difference it would make)
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For the record, I find that if I buy something and sell it for a bit of a loss, I tend to view that as an "in home extended demo fee" which makes the loss much less painful.
 
HiFi Guy said:
One more thing to consider- an 8 ohm speaker running on the 8 ohm taps will will get the rated output from the amplifier. DWs are 12 ohms, so you’ll only get 75% of rated power.
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Zu sells loading resistors in a variety of values to match their speakers with various amplifiers. If you wire the 25Ω resistors across the dirty weekend terminals, then your amplifier will see 8Ω. At the expense of wasting part of your amplifier's power as heat. I'll have to leave it to others what effect this will have on the sound, as well as how many dB you'll lose.
 
displayname said:
For the record, I find that if I buy something and sell it for a bit of a loss, I tend to view that as an "in home extended demo fee" which makes the loss much less painful.
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I think if you just set in your mind that your not going to always get all your money back, it's easier to swallow. I look at it as vinyl Karma, help someone else achieve their goal at a fair price and you'll get a little Karma kick back in time ;)
 
apholden said:
Zu sells loading resistors in a variety of values to match their speakers with various amplifiers. If you wire the 25Ω resistors across the dirty weekend terminals, then your amplifier will see 8Ω. At the expense of wasting part of your amplifier's power as heat. I'll have to leave it to others what effect this will have on the sound, as well as how many dB you'll lose.
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Best investment on the Zu's ;)

Got the 16 ohm Druid Drivers down to 7.7 ohms and all was well in the world.
20200306_185149.jpg
 
displayname said:
For the record, I find that if I buy something and sell it for a bit of a loss, I tend to view that as an "in home extended demo fee" which makes the loss much less painful.
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thanks.. now i just gotta figure out which of the 3 i should try first and hope for optimal
 
actually good news for me is that according to the stores official website they can even go to your house to help you demo products and figure out your best setup..
 
Also I emailed them about my situation and they said stuff like the phono preamp also matters in how much to spend. and that they personally do like ortofon and the 2M red but also mentioned the sumiko rainier oyster
 
duke86fan said:
Also I emailed them about my situation and they said stuff like the phono preamp also matters in how much to spend. and that they personally do like ortofon and the 2M red but also mentioned the sumiko rainier oyster
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Hopefully they can help ya out! Even if you don't go for a preamp now, you should understand that a phono stage can also greatly improve the sound later on down the line.
 
MikeH said:
Hopefully they can help ya out! Even if you don't go for a preamp now, you should understand that a phono stage can also greatly improve the sound later on down the line.
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I already have a schiit Mani so I dunno what improvement I could make
 
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