Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

Ethos99 said:
So it's upgrade time.

1. Looking for a cart and deciding between staying with MM or going MC? For background I replaced a 2m blue with another after it was damaged (stylus only) and it's never been the same.

2. As I was discussing with Joe he had a great point; I will soon outclass my table with an expensive cart. So now what's a step up from the AT LP-120 that's a mid range (5-8 hundred) that either comes with a better cart than the 2m blue or is cheap enough for me to get a better cart right away?

3. Then this brings up belt or direct drive? My experience tells me direct drive is better but some people swear by belt drive.

I'm analytical to a point and want to understand what the pros and cons are since I'll live with this setup for a while.

Any help is appreciated.
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I went from LP120 to PLX1000 and it was a jaw dropping change. I expected it to be an improvement but it was by far the most noticeable of any upgrade I have done. I had a very detailed post on the other site, but one thing I remember was with LP120 you could hear the bass/beat on my front porch, once I hooked up the Pioneer the words could be heard.
I remember in my post similar to yours here someone said it will sound like somebody is removing a tin can from over your system. Sounds crazy but it was true.
 
HiFi Guy said:
It’s not paranoia- it’s math. Given a 40 minute album, you’ve reached 1000 hours in a year if you play 4.8 albums a week.

Microline styli give zero warning when they are worn. Better safe than sorry.
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Fair enough. I've had the deck about 19 months now, but I have no idea what my average listening rate is over that time - it tends to move in waves.

That said, assuming a ~2000 hour stylus life, I should be okay for a little while yet.
 
kvetcha said:
Fair enough. I've had the deck about 19 months now, but I have no idea what my average listening rate is over that time - it tends to move in waves.

That said, assuming a ~2000 hour stylus life, I should be okay for a little while yet.
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The only manufacturer that I’ve seen that states a 2000 hour stylus life is Ortofon. Most everyone else says 1000 hours.
 
HiFi Guy said:
The only manufacturer that I’ve seen that states a 2000 hour stylus life is Ortofon. Most everyone else says 1000 hours.
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Ah, I read a 2000-hour estimate for fine-line stylii, but that was on SH or something.

Either way, I think I'm probably below 1000 hours at this point. Haven't listened to anything close to 20LPs a week.
 
I do keep track of my play time, as @HiFi Guy stated, better safe than sorry.........easier to replace a cartridge than some LPs :)

I'm milking my Gold v2 with the 8MZ at the moment, I'm at about 400ish hours on it, was planning on jumping to the 1mv Statement Platinum 2.......but I'm really looking forward to hearing about the 3's and the new 8MZ. User replaceable stylus is very attractive :)

I have time, we'll shuffle the Gold v2 with it's original stylus to the PLX at some point, it only has about 150 hours on it. Carts are a lot of fun :)
 
HiFi Guy said:
MC requires dedication. You’ll either trade it in for another at a reduced cost (usually 20% off) or send yours off to be retipped. If sending it off, you’ll want a backup so you don’t have any down time. And of course, you’ll need a MC capable phono stage. Given most of us here are heavy spinners, I usually don’t recommend MCs.

Turntable wise, I’d look at either a Fluance RT85 or a Pioneer PLX-1000. The Pioneer is a really solid table. That and a Grado Blue3 would come in under budget- The Pioneer can be had at a discount. Don’t let the price of the Grado fool you- they sound better generally than the Ortofon 2m series. Another good cartridge choice would be Audio Technica VM95ML.

Belt vs. direct drive is an ongoing argument with no answer. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Either can offer stellar performance.
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Wow, thanks for all the replies.

Sounds like MC isn't worth the trouble. I'm usually playing 1-3 records a day.

I have looked at the Fluance and will check out the PLX-1000 next. So one is direct and one is belt. I'm leery of the belt to be honest, just another part to wear out. I don't want to side-grade so devils advocate here, what is the specific features or design that's better with the PLX-1000 over my AT? They look very similar.

I'm ready to give the Grado a try, I'm not happy with the build quality of my last two 2m Blue's. The AT carts get great reviews but my old AT95EX was a little flat for my tastes. The 2M blue is a little bright but detailed.
 
Ethos99 said:
Wow, thanks for all the replies.

Sounds like MC isn't worth the trouble. I'm usually playing 1-3 records a day.

I have looked at the Fluance and will check out the PLX-1000 next. So one is direct and one is belt. I'm leery of the belt to be honest, just another part to wear out. I don't want to side-grade so devils advocate here, what is the specific features or design that's better with the PLX-1000 over my AT? They look very similar.

I'm ready to give the Grado a try, I'm not happy with the build quality of my last two 2m Blue's. The AT carts get great reviews but my old AT95EX was a little flat for my tastes. The 2M blue is a little bright but detailed.
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They are both “reproduction“ designs of the technics sl-1200 series so they should look almost identical. Pretty much every component in the pioneer is going to be a fair way ahead of those in the AT LP-120.
 
Joe Mac said:
Yeah I tend to agree with what’s been said above. I think in your shoes coming from the AT I’d probably go for the pioneer as it’ll feel so similar but perform so much better. Guys are there any of those 15-20% discount codes still knocking about if he decides to go that way?

I don’t think you’ll be surprised at the cartridge recommendations given the convo we had yesterday 😂. I love the grado prestige series, I have the gold, and much prefer them to the Ortofon 2m as well. If you like them enough and keep with the upgrade bug you could think about the next move being towards the wood body Statement/Reference lines. That’s my thinking for next year (with the 8mz stylus ordered to upgrade the gold for this year). New gear is fun!

just one last question. Does your amp have a phono stage or are you using a standalone one? Just because you’ll need either. Neither the fluance nor the pioneer has one built in, unlike the AT.
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Im using the Pho-8 you guys recommended last year. I removed the internal one from the AT because it is in the signal path whether you use it or not. That did make an improvement as mu Denon has a decent phone stage built in. Then the PHO made an other jump in clarity.
 
HiFi Guy said:
@Ethos99 One thing to point out- Grado just upgraded the Prestige series- now called the 3. All initial reports are that this is a big upgrade over the 2. I’ll have a Gold3 here tomorrow. I’m currently running a wood body Grado, but really want a user replaceable stylus.

Regardless of which Grado you choose, you still have an upgrade path- the 8MZ stylus, which has also just been revised. Even a lower end body is reported to be better than the stock top of the line once the stylus is upgraded to the 8MZ.

They have 3 different groups of cartridges within the Prestige series- the second model is the top measuring within the group- so a Green3 will be the best measuring of the Black3 cartridges.

Here’s the grouping:

Black/Green
Blue/Red
Silver/Gold
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So what does a gold 3 with an 8MZ stylus go for?
 
Ethos99 said:
So what does a gold 3 with an 8MZ stylus go for?
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Think the gold 3 is

Amazon.com: GRADO Prestige Gold3 Phono Cartridge w/Stylus - Standard Mount: Musical Instruments

Buy GRADO Prestige Gold3 Phono Cartridge w/Stylus - Standard Mount: Musical Instruments - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com

you can’t buy it with the 8mz in it. id use the gold stylus in it for a year and then treat the new 8mz stylus as an upgrade. They’re around $150 when the time comes.
 
Joe Mac said:
They are both “reproduction“ designs of the technics sl-1200 series so they should look almost identical. Pretty much every component in the pioneer is going to be a fair way ahead of those in the AT LP-120.
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Ahh that explains why they all look alike, I didn't know which was first. Ive given up trying to get an Sl-1200.
 
Ethos99 said:
Im using the Pho-8 you guys recommended last year. I removed the internal one from the AT because it is in the signal path whether you use it or not. That did make an improvement as mu Denon has a decent phone stage built in. Then the PHO made an other jump in clarity.
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Brilliant! Then you’re all set whichever table/cart you settle on!
 
Ethos99 said:
Wow, thanks for all the replies.

Sounds like MC isn't worth the trouble. I'm usually playing 1-3 records a day.

I have looked at the Fluance and will check out the PLX-1000 next. So one is direct and one is belt. I'm leery of the belt to be honest, just another part to wear out. I don't want to side-grade so devils advocate here, what is the specific features or design that's better with the PLX-1000 over my AT? They look very similar.

I'm ready to give the Grado a try, I'm not happy with the build quality of my last two 2m Blue's. The AT carts get great reviews but my old AT95EX was a little flat for my tastes. The 2M blue is a little bright but detailed.
Click to expand...

The PLX-1000 is built to a far higher standard than the A/T. The arm is internally lined with rubber to reduce resonance. The base is die cast zinc. The motor is upgraded. They look similar, but they aren’t.
 
HiFi Guy said:
@Ethos99 One thing to point out- Grado just upgraded the Prestige series- now called the 3. All initial reports are that this is a big upgrade over the 2. I’ll have a Gold3 here tomorrow. I’m currently running a wood body Grado, but really want a user replaceable stylus.

Regardless of which Grado you choose, you still have an upgrade path- the 8MZ stylus, which has also just been revised. Even a lower end body is reported to be better than the stock top of the line once the stylus is upgraded to the 8MZ.

They have 3 different groups of cartridges within the Prestige series- the second model is the top measuring within the group- so a Green3 will be the best measuring of the Black3 cartridges.

Here’s the grouping:

Black/Green
Blue/Red
Silver/Gold
Click to expand...


do you have link to the new 8MZ stylus? Joe has a good point about upgrading later but you know its only money. :sneaky:
 
5C37CC57-C274-4A59-B968-B14DAEAACA62.jpeg
Wanted to say thank you again to all of the N&G fam for your suggestions when I broke my tonearm wiring while trying to replace my cart.
My local tech had me back in business in less than a week, and the new Sumiko Rainier cart is sounding great. Spinning the Newbury Comics reissue of Doolittle now.
Appreciate all of you so much, my wife saw the look of dread on my face when I broke it and was at a loss. She saw me on my iPhone an hour later, looking much calmer...and said “you’re on the forum, aren’t you?” Thanks again for helping me not lose my shit completely.🤣 Cheers!!!🍻🍻
 
kvetcha said:
I've been thinking about splurging on a Soundsmith, but I do kind of worry about the longevity of the company if anything were to happen to Peter.
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That's been my concern as well. He seems like a brilliant guy who cares deeply about his products. His stylus replacement price policy is the real draw for me if I was to ever to consider dropping 1k on a cartridge. BUT he's gotta be in his 70's and isnt exactly the picture of health. I wonder if he's ever addressed his succession plan before?
 
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