Definitive Audiophile pressings

e.s. said:
I love all the knee-jerk "I'll pass on the digital vinyl" reactions. That's a weird devotion to some kind of extreme fetishism that has nothing to do with actually enjoying music.
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And I’m guessing that, in fact, the commenters haven’t passed on digital vinyl bc they own Mofi’s already. And the Mofi’s were amazing and totally worth the money all this time, until they weren’t bc of a disclosure that has zero impact on what the commenters heard before this arose. It’s ridiculous. “Fetishism” is a perfect word.

I can see passing on Mofi bc of the knowing deception shady biz practice.
 
HiFi Guy said:
Lots of people rag on Waxtime because they are obviously digitally sourced. And you know what? There’s not a damn thing wrong with them. They sound good, are well pressed and are reasonably priced.

That they are digitally sourced is immaterial- they still sound better than any CD of the same album that I’ve heard. And you don’t have to spend nearly what I did on gear to beat the CD.

My issue now- given what we know, is the pricing on the MoFi releases. It’s still a good product, but I’m not sure I’m in anymore given the price.
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I think people rag on Waxtime because their records literally ARE sourced from CDs, and also because they're a grey market reissue label that doesn't pay a dime in royalties to the artists or the artist's estates.
 
e.s. said:
I think people rag on Waxtime because their records literally ARE sourced from CDs, and also because they're a grey market reissue label that doesn't pay a dime in royalties to the artists or the artist's estates.
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Wartime being grey market is the only reason I won’t intentionally buy one. I have a few, none of them are awful. My OJCs, TP, AS and classics all sound way better but the wax time are well worth the $$ in most cases, ethically…. Not so much. That’s the other take away here… record companies have always been shady and still are.
 
I have personally said many times that source is important but isn’t as important as the mastering for vinyl. I think mofi did some shady shit here. Doesn’t make their stuff sound worse. And while my first one step (Bill Evans Village Vanguard) is special, I’m not sure what the point of going through all the hoops is for a digital copy.
 
duke86fan said:
i think it might be more about "if it is digital anyway... why would we buy vinyl and not a digital download or CD/SACD copy"
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If SACD/DSD download sounds as good as the vinyl versions, then why weren't they asking this question before they knew the vinyl was mastered from DSD and not the original tapes?
 
Lee Newman said:
I have personally said many times that source is important but isn’t as important as the mastering for vinyl. I think mofi did some shady shit here. Doesn’t make their stuff sound worse. And while my first one step (Bill Evans Village Vanguard) is special, I’m not sure what the point of going through all the hoops is for a digital copy.
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I kinda feel like calling it a 'digital copy,' or suggesting (now) that Mobile Fidelity's records are digital, or even stating that they are digitally sourced all are just as misleading/inaccurate as what MoFi is being accused of. It's a process with several links in the chain of production. We have verification that the first of those links, the source of the music, is analog (original tape); and we now know that the next link in this chain is digital. To my thinking, beyond the issue of how fucked up the intentional obfuscation has been, this is still very different from a completely digital chain. There's still good reason to believe a record so made will sound different from a CD and/or streamed digital file (see @Joe Mac's comments above). Still reason to think the benefits of analog we believe to exist can find their way to our ears through records created in this way, and in fact we know that to be true because we have multiple examples of it. They fucked up, and I'm coming around to the idea there has to be an accounting, but it sure would be nice to see a bit more precision in the language used to discuss all of this going forward (wait....is that ironic?).
 
Russ I said:
I kinda feel like calling it a 'digital copy,' or suggesting (now) that Mobile Fidelity's records are digital, or even stating that they are digitally sourced all are just as misleading/inaccurate as what MoFi is being accused of. It's a process with several links in the chain of production. We have verification that the first of those links, the source of the music, is analog (original tape); and we now know that the next link in this chain is digital. To my thinking, beyond the issue of how fucked up the intentional obfuscation has been, this is still very different from a completely digital chain. There's still good reason to believe a record so made will sound different from a CD and/or streamed digital file (see @Joe Mac's comments above). Still reason to think the benefits of analog we believe to exist can find their way to our ears through records created in this way, and in fact we know that to be true because we have multiple examples of it. They fucked up, and I'm coming around to the idea there has to be an accounting, but it sure would be nice to see a bit more precision in the language used to discuss all of this going forward.
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I’m not really trying to say they are digital chains. What I am saying is, what’s the point of the one step process being applied to a digital clone/whatever of an analog master. They can make as many lacquers as they’d like from their clone - the one step process was supposed to capture that master in its current state before further degradation can occur. Which it does but not to the degree they lead us to believe.
 
Lee Newman said:
I’m not really trying to say they are digital chains. What I am saying is, what’s the point of the one step process being applied to a digital clone/whatever of an analog master. They can make as many lacquers as they’d like from their clone - the one step process was supposed to capture that master in its current state before further degradation can occur. Which it does but not to the degree they lead us to believe.
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Ah, I see what you're saying. But the one-step process is also supposed to be about eliminating steps from the pressing process, and limiting the number of records that are pressed from any one stamper. That's still happening. So if anything, it's exclusivity that's lost, as best represented by the size of the print run for Thriller.
 
Jbraswell said:
People are posting they have canceled $1,000s of back/preorders.
One guy said MD hung up on him today when he called to cancel orders.

There's a bit of a mushroom cloud going off here.
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I'm sure there are tons of order cancellations taking place. Fetishists. All of a sudden a fantastic sounding record isn't good enough, or maybe they preordered to cash in on FOMO when they flip it, or are worried their Discogs value won'y go up as much. Tough luck.

I too feel badly about the deception. I haven't bought much MOFI in the past 5 years - Procol Harum, ELO and Miles Smiles are the only ones (and I suspected at the time that Miles Smiles sounded a bit TOO perfect), so I don't have a stake in it. No interest in One-Steps which I consider a FOMO product for fetishists largely.

I'm not surprised by it. The Music Direct MOFI is not the original MOFI. Anyone who reads the Music Direct catalog - the totally absurd, way over the top hyperbole and flat out bullshit - knows that Music Direct have no problem playing fast and loose with the facts.

But if they came out and said that they are transferring the master tape to DSD256 - not SACD level DSD64, but extreme definition DSD256 - because that actually sounds better than the tape, they might have an argument, and it would at least ignite some heated debate and reconsideration of how vinyl is mastered and cut today.

Transferring at DSD256 is a far cry from simple 'digital mastering' even if that mastering is from a 24 bit file. Those of us who have the MOFI Santana Lotus, cut from DSD256, will surely attest that it sounds out of this world, a-fucking-mazing. And it makes the Speakers Corner Lotus sound thin and anemic in comparison, even though the SC is supposedly cut all analog.

There might just be a case to be made that cutting from a DSD256 transfer is a better chain, resulting in better sounding records. I'm open to that argument.

Two problems though. If MOFI had disclosed this earlier, it would have gotten the Hoffman board assholes going wild and could very well have killed MOFI - the analog purist types, combined with the lemming like behaviour of many in this pursuit and the conspiracy theorists.

Second, it could very well be a significant threat to the guys cutting true all analog with no digital step. All of a sudden, their mastering chain could be seen as lesser.

As I said earlier, I don't like the deception. I understand why - the online experts would have slaughtered them over it, as they are now, regardless of whether they sound better. But I still don't like it, I question Mike - In The Groove's motivtions for exposing it (likely attention seeking), and it wouldn't stop me buying a MOFI record - in fact, knowing it was cut master tape to DSD256 to lacquer might even make it more attractive to me.
 
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RHANDMJ said:
I'm sure there are tons of order cancellations taking place. Fetishists. All of a sudden a fantastic sounding record isn't good enough, or maybe they preordered to cash in on FOMO when they flip it, or are worried their Discogs value won'y go up as much. Tough luck.

I too feel badly about the deception. I haven't bought much MOFI in the past 5 years - Procol Harum, ELO and Miles Smiles are the only ones (and I suspected at the time that Miles Smiles sounded a bit TOO perfect), so I don't have a stake in it. No interest in One-Steps which I consider a FOMO product for fetishists largely.

I'm not surprised by it. The Music Direct MOFI is not the original MOFI. Anyone who reads the Music Direct catalog - the totally absurd, way over the top hyperbole and flat out bullshit - knows that Music Direct have no problem playing fast and loose with the facts.

But if they came out and said that they are transferring the master tape to DSD256 - not SACD level DSD64, but extreme definition DSD256 - because that actually sounds better than the tape, they might have an argument, and it would at least ignite some heated debate and reconsideration of how vinyl is mastered and cut today.

Transferring at DSD256 is a far cry from simple 'digital mastering' even if that mastering is from a 24 bit file. Those of us who have the MOFI Santana Lotus, cut from DSD256, will surely attest that it sounds out of this world, a-fucking-mazing. And it makes the Speakers Corner Lotus sound thin and anemic in comparison, even though the SC is supposedly cut all analog.

There might just be a case to be made that cutting from a DSD256 transfer is a better chain, resulting in better sounding records. I'm open to that argument.

Two problems though. If MOFI had disclosed this earlier, it would have gotten the Hoffman board assholes going wild and could very well have killed MOFI - the analog purist types, combined with the lemming like behaviour of many in this pursuit and the conspiracy theorists.

Second, it could very well be a significant threat to the guys cutting true all analog with no digital step. All of a sudden, their mastering chain could be seen as lesser.

As I said earlier, I don't like the deception. I understand why - the online experts would have slaughtered them over it, as they are now, regadless of whether they sound better. But I still don't like it, I question Mike - In The Groove's motivtions for exposing it (likely attention seeking), and it wouldn't stop me buying a MOFI record - in fact, knowing it was cut master tape to DSD256 to lacquer might even make it more attractive to me.
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That's a lot of typing.

I think the 1-step is probably the first product to go down.
Volumes are going up while interest appears to be declining.
Now, people are like $130 digital 1-step? GTFOOH

The Craft Relaxin is still on the shelf and prices are starting to drop a little.

What happens with the rest of Mofi sales is TBD.
I just see 1-steps being the biggest loser here.

AZ Mike has certainly boosted his name after this and the publicity with give him more traffic.

All the analog releases coming out from BG and KG is perfect for my taste.
Poll Winners with the BG master will blow your doors off and it was $20 on amazon recently.

Maybe it is just me but the ridiculous packaging, super duper vinyl and all the other exotic shit is a waste of good money.
A really hi end record doesn't need to be more than $50-$60. Diminishing returns after that.

My $5 copy of Abraxas sounds really good right now.
 
I cancelled two One Step pre-orders bc of the deception bc I think the one steps are where the deception is most relevant (both in terms of claims about the process and price). I kept and will keep three outstanding preorders for a few of the Miles Mofis I don’t have bc they sound incredible, but now that I know what’s going on, I can understand @RHANDMJ ’s ”too perfect” characterization bc they are dead silent and precise.

I think I just like that sound, however it’s characterized and even if it has a digital sheen.
 
Jbraswell said:
That's a lot of typing.

I think the 1-step is probably the first product to go down.
Volumes are going up while interest appears to be declining.
Now, people are like $130 digital 1-step? GTFOOH

The Craft Relaxin is still on the shelf and prices are starting to drop a little.

What happens with the rest of Mofi sales is TBD.
I just see 1-steps being the biggest loser here.

AZ Mike has certainly boosted his name after this and the publicity with give him more traffic.

All the analog releases coming out from BG and KG is perfect for my taste.
Poll Winners with the BG master will blow your doors off and it was $20 on amazon recently.

Maybe it is just me but the ridiculous packaging, super duper vinyl and all the other exotic shit is a waste of good money.
A really hi end record doesn't need to be more than $50-$60. Diminishing returns after that.

My $5 copy of Abraxas sounds really good right now.
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That's a lot of typing, too
 
I get that people are cancelling orders. I also get you have a mix of analog-only purists and some that just don't want to do business with a company that obfuscates the truth.

They knew people thought their releases were AAA and did nothing to stop this assumption. While they didn't outright say "All Analog" on the releases - they never mentioned the digital part of the mastering chain - but go to great length to write about all the other parts of the mastering chain. The marketing for these one step releases has ALL the technical aspects of the mastering, but omits the fact that the master was first recorded to DSD.

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That being said...I'm not even a MoFi fan boy. I've got 19 titles I've picked up over the years - mostly used. The last 2, Superfly and Electric Warrior sound amazing.

Mike mentioned a few times in his last video that he heard the new Thriller one step, and it blew him away. I'm keeping my pre-order on that, and that will be my first one step.
 
I canceled my preorder of Bitches Brew because I was planning on flipping it down the road for a nice profit, but now, I doubt that it will be worth much. It’ll probably sound great, but I won’t spend that kind of money on a record for myself. Luckily, I sold the few MoFi records I had over the past couple of years.
 
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