Definitive Audiophile pressings

Andy said:
I disagree. If it's out of copyright then it would be a legit reissue, so not sure I would call it a bootleg. But usually the 'gray' market releases don't use the original artwork. So, could be a bootleg, but also could be a legit label similar to Elemental (unlikely I agree), but worth trying to find out, asking them what sources they use.
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When it is out of copyright, and a boot label presses it, the label that owns the recordings gets zero revenue, the artists get zero revenue, the label has NO access to legitimate sources.

Elemental is a legitimate label. It works with legitimate sources and pays rights holders.
 
RHANDMJ said:
When it is out of copyright, and a boot label presses it, the label that owns the recordings gets zero revenue, the artists get zero revenue, the label has NO access to legitimate sources.

Elemental is a legitimate label. It works with legitimate sources and pays rights holders.
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Not sure I agree. Copyrights can expire on sound recordings. Once that happens, the original label then no longer "owns" those recordings. Not sure why Elemental would pay a rights holder for something for that has entered the public domain.

EDIT: It might have to do with differing copyright laws, so an original label might still have a copyright in the UK but no longer in the US, for example.
 
dansomeone said:
Not sure I agree. Copyrights can expire on sound recordings. Once that happens, the original label then no longer "owns" those recordings. Not sure why Elemental would pay a rights holder for something for that has entered the public domain.

EDIT: It might have to do with differing copyright laws, so an original label might still have a copyright in the UK but no longer in the US, for example.
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There are indeed different copyright lengths in different countries.

But here's how it works. A work of music may go into the public domain. But the label (or artist) still owns the tape. If you want to do a legit reissue using the tape or a high resolution transfer, you have to go through the label and pay. Period.

Elemental gets tapes from a range of sources, but let's consider some recent ones. Last year's RSD Bill Evans came from a cassette recorded and owned by Jack DeJohnette. I doubt Jack would have given it for free, but who know - he owns that tape. The RSD Rollins came from radio recordings owned by the broadcaster in Holland. They cold have found someone who recorded it off the air in the 60's as their source, but they got the original tape from the broadcaster, who owns it. They would have paid for that.

When a sound recording goes into the public domain, what actually happens is that it only goes into the public domain in the format it was issued in. So The Beatles, original VINYL pressings, are in the public domain. There was a recent court case that proved this, which Apple lost. However, the CD reissues in the late 80's are NOT in the public domain.
 
Portland Sheriff said:
One reason the album art may be different is that the copyrights in the album art/photos are separate from the music. The music could be in public domain, while the art/photos are still protected.
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Absolutely, that's why the gray market releases tend to use different artwork.
 
RHANDMJ said:
When it is out of copyright, and a boot label presses it, the label that owns the recordings gets zero revenue, the artists get zero revenue, the label has NO access to legitimate sources.

Elemental is a legitimate label. It works with legitimate sources and pays rights holders.
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You can't assume that this label hasn't done this legitimately, in the same way elemental has. (it probably hasn't though & that's why I ask the question)

On who gets the revenue, I have 2 answers. Firstly, it's very often the case that the artists were cut out of the loop from the start, so revenue could be going to some crook 'legitimately', or some faceless corporation, or even someone like Spotify. The second more important point is that the copyright expires for a reason. Shakespeare's estate (even if they knew who they were ) wouldn't get royalties when his books are sold.
 
Andy said:
You can't assume that this label hasn't done this legitimately, in the same way elemental has. (it probably hasn't though & that's why I ask the question)

On who gets the revenue, I have 2 answers. Firstly, it's very often the case that the artists were cut out of the loop from the start, so revenue could be going to some crook 'legitimately', or some faceless corporation, or even someone like Spotify. The second more important point is that the copyright expires for a reason. Shakespeare's estate (even if they knew who they were ) wouldn't get royalties when his books are sold.
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Andy, not to belabor this, but buyer beware. Assume it isnt legit, unless you know the label. The EU is flooded with these crappy pressings, particularly in countries where enforcement is weak.

Yes, sometimes artists were cut out from the start. But thats not the point here. The more the market gets flooded by these dubious releases, the more it prevents some faceless corporation that owns the tapes to put out a quality reissue. The revenues generated by a legit reissue fund other releases that may be less than top sellers.

Would you rather have your money going to some shady eastern european crook or the crooks at Universal? To save a few bucks? I know which crook I will pick - the one that has the master tapes.
 
RHANDMJ said:
Andy, not to belabor this, but buyer beware. Assume it isnt legit, unless you know the label. The EU is flooded with these crappy pressings, particularly in countries where enforcement is weak.

Yes, sometimes artists were cut out from the start. But thats not the point here. The more the market gets flooded by these dubious releases, the more it prevents some faceless corporation that owns the tapes to put out a quality reissue. The revenues generated by a legit reissue fund other releases that may be less than top sellers.

Would you rather have your money going to some shady eastern european crook or the crooks at Universal? To save a few bucks? I know which crook I will pick - the one that has the master tapes.
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I think you understand this issue well, but your argument that gray market/bootleg pressings prevent quality reissues is tenuous.
 
Pass #2 on the Kind Of Blue UHQR, this time with speakers at a good volume (wife had to go into the office today!). I can hear a lot more fine detail. Cobb's drumming is so much more pronounced out of the right speaker. The sax out of the left is also much more rich sounding. I swear there was a sound I had never heard on Freddie Freeloader that made me turn around because I thought something was happening behind me. The soundstage is amazingly present. It really feels like you are near them in the studio. The channel separation is great. And Miles just hits you down the middle. I'm very happy with this purchase.

Now, that's not to say there's not some issues. A lot of pops on both listens. It lessens in the middle but the beginning of both sides it is an issue as those are the quieter tracks. I wonder how it will sound after a good wash. I can't see anything when holding the record up into the light. I'm not a huge fan of clear vinyl for the very reason that I've always found they pop more than black or other colors. It's a bit of an annoyance given this was sold on the ability to be the quietest pressing of the album. I don't know if it's enough of an issue to ask for a replacement.
 
RHANDMJ said:
Andy, not to belabor this, but buyer beware. Assume it isnt legit, unless you know the label. The EU is flooded with these crappy pressings, particularly in countries where enforcement is weak.

Yes, sometimes artists were cut out from the start. But thats not the point here. The more the market gets flooded by these dubious releases, the more it prevents some faceless corporation that owns the tapes to put out a quality reissue. The revenues generated by a legit reissue fund other releases that may be less than top sellers.

Would you rather have your money going to some shady eastern european crook or the crooks at Universal? To save a few bucks? I know which crook I will pick - the one that has the master tapes.
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I think you miss the point, when you say 'assume it isn't legit'. If you are talking about legally produced records where the copyright has expired, they are legit. You should be saying, beware, check the quality, make sure it's not pressed from CD.

This is a new label, just because it's based in Europe we shouldn't assume it's run by Eastern European crooks and that all the records are crap. (all this could be true though :) ) It could be some music lovers, doing this properly, in the best possible way. It could be very similar to We are busy bodies, as an example.

There are lot's of European re-issue labels that are completely legit and do a great job, WRWTFWW, springs to mind. Bear Family is another. If I see a new label I just want to understand what their ethos is & what they are doing.

The reason why this caught my eye was the titles that they are issuing. Generally the crappy CD copies still go after the big titles, like Something Else, Miles Davis & Chet Baker.

I still think you are probably right that this is not well produced, quality vinyl. But I'm willing to find out more about it before I pass judgment.
 
Andy said:
Back onto top quality pressings, apologies for going of thread.

Has anyone picked this up, there is a guy on cogs reckons its better than some of his one steps

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It’s ok. Sounds good but definitely not better than my one-steps. The closest comparison would be the Evans Village Vanguard album and it is really no comparison on so many levels. As far as musicianship, well it is not horribly amateur but it is at about the level that I would expect from the Friday night house band at a local jazz club with a $5-10 cover. Semi-pro at best…
 
Andy said:
......
This is a new label, just because it's based in Europe we shouldn't assume it's run by Eastern European crooks and that all the records are crap. (all this could be true though :) ) It could be some music lovers, doing this properly, in the best possible way. It could be very similar to We are busy bodies, as an example.
......
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I don’t know anything about the label you’re asking about, but given the We Are Busy Bodies example you’d hope to be able to find clear, up-front statements about what they’re doing and how they’ve done it. I appreciate that about WABB.
 
Boom boom alert...

Haven’t listened yet but I ordered this from @Plaid Room / Colemine :
www.discogs.com

Johnny Cash - With His Hot And Blue Guitar

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 2015 Vinyl release of "With His Hot And Blue Guitar" on Discogs.
www.discogs.com www.discogs.com

and it has a nice kpg@ca in the dead wax. Both the color and the dead wax were a surprise!
 
mdmost said:
Pass #2 on the Kind Of Blue UHQR, this time with speakers at a good volume (wife had to go into the office today!). I can hear a lot more fine detail. Cobb's drumming is so much more pronounced out of the right speaker. The sax out of the left is also much more rich sounding. I swear there was a sound I had never heard on Freddie Freeloader that made me turn around because I thought something was happening behind me. The soundstage is amazingly present. It really feels like you are near them in the studio. The channel separation is great. And Miles just hits you down the middle. I'm very happy with this purchase.

Now, that's not to say there's not some issues. A lot of pops on both listens. It lessens in the middle but the beginning of both sides it is an issue as those are the quieter tracks. I wonder how it will sound after a good wash. I can't see anything when holding the record up into the light. I'm not a huge fan of clear vinyl for the very reason that I've always found they pop more than black or other colors. It's a bit of an annoyance given this was sold on the ability to be the quietest pressing of the album. I don't know if it's enough of an issue to ask for a replacement.
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My 1st pass listening notes a lot like yours. Great tone, soundstage, and separation of each instrument/musician.

I had some very minor surface noise in a few spots. Enough that I noticed it due to the special nature of the release not because it was excessive or overly distracting.

I also have the Classic Recs ‘95, MoFi 2015, and MoFi 2020. I plan to reclean UHQR AP with enzyme cleaner and do a little back-and-forth asap.
 
AP KoB came today. Looks great. Gave it a clean. Sounding great. (Only other AP UHQR I have is Axis stereo but I've plenty of AP pressings and trust their quality)

The ride cymbal is nice and forward on So What. Reminds me of the recent MOFI one step of Mingus. The bass is fat and juicy and the trumpet will forever stain your brain with Davis' spittle.

I have the 2010 Columbia, MFSL SACD, and MFSL 45s currently taking up real estate in my collection.

I won't say this is the "definitive" version cause what the fuck does that really mean outside of getting our nerd jowls frothing and selling a few more units?

I won't use hyperbole or A-B it with other versions (I mean, it will def blow out the Columbia).

I WILL say it sounds fuckin great. But if you have a version you like and the music coming out of your speakers brings you joy and $100 is excessive for your vinyl budget then fuck it and fuck FOMO. But if the price of entry is well within your idea of reasonable then giddy up cause it does sound good. Is it gonna give you an ear-gasm??? Naw but it'll get you wet.
 
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