It Could Get A Bit Messi In Here - The Football Thread.

[JohnnyCashFan]

he should sell the club though, no?

The damage is done, it was a clusterfuck of all clusterfucks but billionaires don't grow on trees either, especially coming out of a pandemic. We shall see how it all plays out, if the current financial model is sustainable, how these whispered UEFA matching SL loans play out, and if he losses one of the best managers in the world over it (and other things). There has to be some accountability for players and agents in all this as well with wages, fee's, and contracts. As someone said to me yesterday your not signing Mbappe selling tickets for 18 quid (another issue supporters pushed back FSG on).

And just a polite word on where you support your clubs from. Football is a world brand. Without supporters from around the world clubs like Manu are not where they are today. Football (and other things) brings out passion in everyone.

 

[Andy]

John Barnes' interpretation of the situation seems pretty spot on, and a little different to most

 

[Joe Mac]

And just a polite word on where you support your clubs from. Football is a world brand. Without supporters from around the world clubs like Manu are not where they are today. Football (and other things) brings out passion in everyone.

I’m just going to quickly explain my position because I make an absolute screw up of it yesterday and managed to cause an offence that I absolutely didn’t intend by poorly chosen words lazily thrown out.

Football absolutely is a global game and that’s part of the reason for its success. I absolute don’t begrudge global support and I welcome the advances that money has allowed even if I think it’s caused some other issues that I absolutely don’t like.

However to deny the origins of these clubs as community sports clubs and the huge presence that they have in their local communities is equally absolutely absurd. The hardcore match going fan is absolutely the beating heart of a club and they can have a massively different viewpoint to the global fan base who have a much smaller direct association with the club. Without full stadiums and a passionate support these clubs would never have grown to the size they are an the global fan base wouldn’t exist. Indeed look at the last year and how diminished a broadcast experience it is empty. I lived in the city in question at the time, went to matches where I could and worked, lived next door to and socialised with more regular match goers from those who only went at home to those who did home and away those who followed the club all over Europe. Their attitudes towards this particular executive would be hugely different, and on certain issues more informed, when compared to someone living in another country watching the odd match and following Twitter feeds.

My sympathies nearly always lie with the hardcore of match going local fans in these situations.

Again I sincerely apologise for any offence that post caused.

 

[JohnnyCashFan]

I’m just going to quickly explain my position because I make an absolute screw up of it yesterday and managed to cause an offence that I absolutely didn’t intend by poorly chosen words lazily thrown out.

Football absolutely is a global game and that’s part of the reason for its success. I absolute don’t begrudge global support and I welcome the advances that money has allowed even if I think it’s caused some other issues that I absolutely don’t like.

However to deny the origins of these clubs as community sports clubs and the huge presence that they have in their local communities is equally absolutely absurd. The hardcore match going fan is absolutely the beating heart of a club and they can have a massively different viewpoint to the global fan base who have a much smaller direct association with the club. Without full stadiums and a passionate support these clubs would never have grown to the size they are an the global fan base wouldn’t exist. Indeed look at the last year and how diminished a broadcast experience it is empty. I lived in the city in question at the time, went to matches where I could and worked, lived next door to and socialised with more regular match goers from those who only went at home to those who did home and away those who followed the club all over Europe. Their attitudes towards this particular executive would be hugely different, and on certain issues more informed, when compared to someone living in another country watching the odd match and following Twitter feeds.

My sympathies nearly always lie with the hardcore of match going local fans in these situations.

Again I sincerely apologise for any offence that post caused.

I dont think anyone here is denying that ? But Many of us have mates, relatives, semesters abroad, travel, business, or just a love for the beautiful game that brought us to support a club(s). Were not naive outsiders, most know the in's/outs of the game, the politic, and all about the history of clubs and supporters such as firms or the darkest days like Hillsborough. I do hope you and others realize this as well. Respect. YNWA (Honorary Scouse)

 

[Joe Mac]

I dont think anyone here is denying that ? But Many of us have mates, relatives, semesters abroad, or just a love for the beautiful game that brought us to support a club(s). Were not naive outsiders, most know the in's/outs of the game, the politic, and all about the history of clubs and supporters such as firms or the darkest days like Hillsborough. I do hope you and others realize this as well. Respect. YNWA

Oh absolutely I know some of you, probably even the vast majority of you, do. Where I have a different perspective I will share it though and I hope that isn’t a problem either so long as I’m a bit better at setting it out. That said in Dublin now for almost 14 years so I’m really just another overseas armchair fan

I’d rather walk alone

 

[Andy]

I’m just going to quickly explain my position because I make an absolute screw up of it yesterday and managed to cause an offence that I absolutely didn’t intend by poorly chosen words lazily thrown out.

Football absolutely is a global game and that’s part of the reason for its success. I absolute don’t begrudge global support and I welcome the advances that money has allowed even if I think it’s caused some other issues that I absolutely don’t like.

However to deny the origins of these clubs as community sports clubs and the huge presence that they have in their local communities is equally absolutely absurd. The hardcore match going fan is absolutely the beating heart of a club and they can have a massively different viewpoint to the global fan base who have a much smaller direct association with the club. Without full stadiums and a passionate support these clubs would never have grown to the size they are an the global fan base wouldn’t exist. Indeed look at the last year and how diminished a broadcast experience it is empty. I lived in the city in question at the time, went to matches where I could and worked, lived next door to and socialised with more regular match goers from those who only went at home to those who did home and away those who followed the club all over Europe. Their attitudes towards this particular executive would be hugely different, and on certain issues more informed, when compared to someone living in another country watching the odd match and following Twitter feeds.

My sympathies nearly always lie with the hardcore of match going local fans in these situations.

Again I sincerely apologise for any offence that post caused.

I shouldn't chime in, but I'm pretty shocked you managed to find any Man U fans in Manchester

edit - for clarity I'm a Newcastle fan that has never lived in Newcastle (although I did used to pay £5 a time to get in the Gallowgate every other week & watch greats like Micky Quinn lose week after week)

 

[JohnnyCashFan]

I’d rather walk alone

HA, I didn't take you for Toffee supporter Joe

 

[Thackeraye]

I’m just going to quickly explain my position because I make an absolute screw up of it yesterday and managed to cause an offence that I absolutely didn’t intend by poorly chosen words lazily thrown out.

Football absolutely is a global game and that’s part of the reason for its success. I absolute don’t begrudge global support and I welcome the advances that money has allowed even if I think it’s caused some other issues that I absolutely don’t like.

However to deny the origins of these clubs as community sports clubs and the huge presence that they have in their local communities is equally absolutely absurd. The hardcore match going fan is absolutely the beating heart of a club and they can have a massively different viewpoint to the global fan base who have a much smaller direct association with the club. Without full stadiums and a passionate support these clubs would never have grown to the size they are an the global fan base wouldn’t exist. Indeed look at the last year and how diminished a broadcast experience it is empty. I lived in the city in question at the time, went to matches where I could and worked, lived next door to and socialised with more regular match goers from those who only went at home to those who did home and away those who followed the club all over Europe. Their attitudes towards this particular executive would be hugely different, and on certain issues more informed, when compared to someone living in another country watching the odd match and following Twitter feeds.

My sympathies nearly always lie with the hardcore of match going local fans in these situations.

Again I sincerely apologise for any offence that post caused.

Joe, if the last couple of days have taught us anything, you should be calling fans/supporters stakeholders in your apologies!

 

[Joe Mac]

I shouldn't chime in, but I'm pretty shocked you managed to find any Man U fans in Manchester

edit - for clarity I'm a Newcastle fan that has never lived in Newcastle (although I did used to pay £5 a time to get in the Gallowgate every other week & watch greats like Micky Quinn lose week after week)

Hahaha! There are plenty .

In all seriousness the greater urban area is pretty much 50/50 United/City traditionally. United’s Mancunian support was just dwarfed by the amount of people (to be fair like me despite my time living there) from outside of Manchester in the U.K. and the rest of the world that supported United. I’d imagine that Liverpool as a city is very similar despite Everton rambling on about being the people’s club. I think that the local city fans are beginning to see their club move towards where United have been that way over the last decade and the ones I still know are not loving it lol!

 

[Thackeraye]

Anyway, back to the important things in football: what number should I put on the back of my dog's new Scotland strip? What number does a cockapoo called Joffrey feel like? He feels like a marauding left back to me...

Scotland Football Team Shirt (Personalised) | Dog Scotland Football Team at Urban Pup

Shop for Scotland Football Team Shirt (Personalised) at Urban Pup, providing the fashion conscious with stylish dog clothes. Designer Pet Fashion Clothing Boutique. Dog Coats, Dog Collars, Dog Carriers, Dog Accessories, Dog Harness

www.urbanpup.com

 

[Joe Mac]

Joe, if the last couple of days have taught us anything, you should be calling fans/supporters stakeholders in your apologies!

Yes sorry @Thackeraye im a “legacy supporter” rather than a customer in a “growth market”

 

[Joe Mac]

Anyway, back to the important things in football: what number should I put on the back of my dog's new Scotland strip? What number does a cockapoo called Joffrey feel like? He feels like a marauding left back to me...

Scotland Football Team Shirt (Personalised) | Dog Scotland Football Team at Urban Pup

Shop for Scotland Football Team Shirt (Personalised) at Urban Pup, providing the fashion conscious with stylish dog clothes. Designer Pet Fashion Clothing Boutique. Dog Coats, Dog Collars, Dog Carriers, Dog Accessories, Dog Harness

www.urbanpup.com

Well seeing as in typical Scottish fashion you have two world class players and both play in the same position, left back, 3 is probably apt! I still have 7 printed on the back of any shirt despite never having had the talent to be a hatchet man, nevermind a player that wears 7

 

[mdmost]

I completely understand where Joe is coming from. I don't know if I shared this previously on here and if I did I apologize for restating it and I certainly don't mean to use this to brag. I've always maintained that fans outside of Liverpool are never going to be on the level of a the fan who lives and dies for Liverpool because they were born into it or the grew up around it. Fans in the states and elsewhere have the luxury of choice which is a similar situation in America where there are so many options to choose from, even with various sports (NBA, MLB, NHL, NFL). The closest I'd say to being like a Liverpool fan over there is being a fan based on the college you went to and even that is a privilege not all get. It means so much more to you because it's much more a part of your life for an extended period. The Texas Longhorns will always be my first love because of the time I spent in Austin and meeting my wife there. Like an English club, they won't abandon me if they don't get a stadium deal like a pro-team in the US can and will do.

It took me seeing a match at Anfield, walking around the stadium, walking through Stanley Park, walking the neighborhood around Anfield, eating an English breakfast at Georgie Porgy Cafe, going to the Albert Pub, and yes sitting amongst the fans next to the Kop to really get it. Liverpool FC are so ingrained in the neighborhood and city. It took me seeing how much of a working class area the stadium was in. Yes, they're obviously a global brand but they're still at their heart, a regional football team. I count myself lucky that I was able to go over. I don't count myself as a better fan because of it but it certainly helped me better understand and love the club. I think this is what John Henry and FSG don't get. They saw the global marketing and lost sight of what allowed for that global reach to take hold. It all comes back to the city and the people who live and die with that club. You Never Walk Alone isn't some snappy branding that an ad wizard came up with. It certainly caught my eye when I was trying out EPL teams. But it was an organic nod to the manager at the time's favorite song that caught on with the supporters. FSG see it solely as a marketing tool. I winch when I see supporters called stakeholders by FSG or talk of "legacy fans". No, they are supporters because you've shown you really don't take their opinion to heart before you make ridiculous decisions that affect not only them but clubs down the system. And with legacy fans, you indicate you think they'll eventually go away (die off) and be replaced solely with new fans who want shiny pyramid schemes.

 

[Thackeraye]

Well seeing as in typical Scottish fashion you have two world class players and both play in the same position, left back, 3 is probably apt! I still have 7 printed on the back of any shirt despite never having had the talent to be a hatchet man, nevermind a player that wears 7

Everyone thinks they are Bestie in their head, don't they!

 

[Joe Mac]

Everyone thinks they are Bestie in their head, don't they!

Probably more Robson and Cantona as a kid but yeah Bestie really is the one British player that we’d all want to be! Now to see if I can find the old George Best VHS that I had as a kid on DVD or streaming...

 

[mdmost]

he should sell the club though, no?

Should, yes. Will, no. Probably best to not step foot back in Anfield either way.

 

[Andy]

Hahaha! There are plenty .

In all seriousness the greater urban area is pretty much 50/50 United/City traditionally. United’s Mancunian support was just dwarfed by the amount of people (to be fair like me despite my time living there) from outside of Manchester in the U.K. and the rest of the world that supported United. I’d imagine that Liverpool as a city is very similar despite Everton rambling on about being the people’s club. I think that the local city fans are beginning to see their club move towards where United have been that way over the last decade and the ones I still know are not loving it lol!

I know, it's just funny how all the Man U fans have cockney accents

It's definitely (or at least used to be) split on location on Manchester, it's just you used to only find City fans in Manchester as it was such (a comparatively) small club.

Pretty impressed with some of the community things City have don though (I'm sure Man U do the same). My office is based in Manchester, a couple of years ago I went to their training ground to do mock interviews with teenagers to give them some experience engaging with people outside of their circle. Very good stuff & great facilities, although 80% wanted to be a footballer or football manager.

 

[mgp]

Mostly unrelated: I have a friend/acquaintance here in Boston, who after the 2018 world cup decided that he wanted to be a soccer fan. This guy carefully researched teams and decided to become a Liverpool fan (somehow, Tottenham came in second, so he also quasi supports them). Now when I go to his house, both of his kids are in Liverpool jersey's and he is all "Did you see the game? We looked good today" (not so much recently). "We" gets me every time.

I find the whole thing fascinating! He is an extremely smart and analytical guy who reads a ton about the game, so he knows a lot, but he is a literal blank slate before 2018. Watching the Liverpool - Tottenham CL final with him, he had no idea about the Mo Salah / Sergio Ramos kerfuffle from the year prior! As a Yank, he's probably never seen Landon Donovan play!

I have not reached out to him, but I wonder how he felt about the Super League. I'd bet there was part of him that liked the idea, and maybe that's the "fan" that they were going for?

 

[wokeupnew]

I completely understand where Joe is coming from. I don't know if I shared this previously on here and if I did I apologize for restating it and I certainly don't mean to use this to brag. I've always maintained that fans outside of Liverpool are never going to be on the level of a the fan who lives and dies for Liverpool because they were born into it or the grew up around it. Fans in the states and elsewhere have the luxury of choice which is a similar situation in America where there are so many options to choose from, even with various sports (NBA, MLB, NHL, NFL). The closest I'd say to being like a Liverpool fan over there is being a fan based on the college you went to and even that is a privilege not all get. It means so much more to you because it's much more a part of your life for an extended period. The Texas Longhorns will always be my first love because of the time I spent in Austin and meeting my wife there. Like an English club, they won't abandon me if they don't get a stadium deal like a pro-team in the US can and will do.

It took me seeing a match at Anfield, walking around the stadium, walking through Stanley Park, walking the neighborhood around Anfield, eating an English breakfast at Georgie Porgy Cafe, going to the Albert Pub, and yes sitting amongst the fans next to the Kop to really get it. Liverpool FC are so ingrained in the neighborhood and city. It took me seeing how much of a working class area the stadium was in. Yes, they're obviously a global brand but they're still at their heart, a regional football team. I count myself lucky that I was able to go over. I don't count myself as a better fan because of it but it certainly helped me better understand and love the club. I think this is what John Henry and FSG don't get. They saw the global marketing and lost sight of what allowed for that global reach to take hold. It all comes back to the city and the people who live and die with that club. You Never Walk Alone isn't some snappy branding that an ad wizard came up with. It certainly caught my eye when I was trying out EPL teams. But it was an organic nod to the manager at the time's favorite song that caught on with the supporters. FSG see it solely as a marketing tool. I winch when I see supporters called stakeholders by FSG or talk of "legacy fans". No, they are supporters because you've shown you really don't take their opinion to heart before you make ridiculous decisions that affect not only them but clubs down the system. And with legacy fans, you indicate you think they'll eventually go away (die off) and be replaced solely with new fans who want shiny pyramid schemes.

Match going fans are different. Newer, global fans don't have that same connection, but they are no "lesser" than any person who's been a ST holder for years.

From a Spurs perspective, match going fans would have called for Jose's head back in January had there been fans in the stadium. He would have been gone a long time ago. Global fans were split 50/50 on should he stay or should he go up until the Europa exit. And even then there was still a large contingent who wanted him to stick around. As a global fan you don't live and die with the team as much. It's not as much as a part of you as a match going fan who lives in the area. You can turn off the TV and not worry about it. Match going, local fan can't really do that. They may walk by the stadium every day. Talk with family or friends who've been supporting fo 40 or 50 years. It's a much bigger part of their lives so their support is very, very important.

These clubs wanted to reach a global audience and have these clubs be destinations for traveling global fans to see a match. But filling the stadium with tourists kills everything about what makes these clubs so great. You need both and you can't bin one for another.

 

[Joe Mac]

I know, it's just funny how all the Man U fans have cockney accents

It's definitely (or at least used to be) split on location on Manchester, it's just you used to only find City fans in Manchester as it was such (a comparatively) small club.

Pretty impressed with some of the community things City have don though (I'm sure Man U do the same). My office is based in Manchester, a couple of years ago I went to their training ground to do mock interviews with teenagers to give them some experience engaging with people outside of their circle. Very good stuff & great facilities, although 80% wanted to be a footballer or football manager.

I have huge issues with where the money at city has come from and the reasons behind it being there. That said by god have they been the perfect custodians of a club up until Sunday. What they have done in East Manchester is astounding. I know the area around the stadium relatively well, my best friend used to live in nearby Droylsden, and where all that was used to be an eyesore. An abandoned brownfield site that had been decaying for decades. They’ve completely revitalised the local area.

United fail at that. They are, and Liverpool are also guilty of this, complicit in land banking property in the area around OT and leaving it vacant and to fall into disrepair to diminish the value of the area in order to make it easier and cheaper to buy up what remains. Under the Glazer’s the lack of investment in OT has also become embarrassingly clear.

United are very good at a community level in terms of as a trust and in getting their players involved in local community projects. The players also are mostly fantastic, you hear the stories of the time that these young men are willing to give, particularly when there are kids involved and it really does cut through some of the cynicism that you feel towards the modern player.