sad, beautiful, tragic: the n&g taylor swift thread

I have only listened to Red through Folklore...

But honestly

Lover > 1989 > Folklore > Red > Reputation


And Red is still a fantastic album. Reputation is the only one that has more misses than hits. And some of those songs I absolutely can’t stand.

I can see Folklore rising higher, but I can’t put it any higher than that cause I haven’t listened to it enough.
 
So imma put in my 2-cents 'cause as T-Swizzle would say "If you don't like it, you can go fuck yourself!" (Does she say that? Prob not, but roll with it).

I'm, admittedly, not a TS fan. I'm also not not a fan - if that makes sense? I'm long past a time in my life in saying that this or that music is "bad" or "sucks" - with maybe a few exceptions. I can't deny that a person who has had longevity, legions of fans, and sold millions has got talent. That also doesn't mean it has to be for me; 'cause not everything in this world is for me and that's okay. I can probably only think of a few TS songs off the top of my head. The Shake It Off one - yea, that's catchy as hell. The one where she sings about never, ever getting back together....wheeeee (that one is an earworm....I used to work in a warehouse that had a radio with reception that came in for only one adult contemporary/pop station and I heard that song everyday - you betcha that I was wheeeing right along with her!). And the song that has the video where she is with a bunch of female baddies and shit blows up....is it called Bad Reputation??? Yes, I could easily look this stuff up but y'all are the experts so you know what I'm trying to reference.

RE: the Kanye v TS thing I've been seeing pop up here. Don't care. Don't have a substantial opinion. Obviously know the background 'cause I've not lived under a media rock the last handful of years. But, again, don't care. The music exists outside of that.

Anywhooo....hearing all this talk of folklore piqued my interest. Like I've said, I'm not super familiar with her discography unless it's been all over the airwaves. And, quite honestly, I'm usually so insulated with putting on records, CDs, or stuff from my digital library that I miss a lot of stuff that hits the radio. But from what I can gather, this album represents a departure from her larger oeuvre? Now for those of you who are big into her - is this like a complete 180 in sound or more of a - while unexpected, not totally leftfield - pivot?

With that said, I am listening to it for my second time through while I type this. I gotta say, I like it. I also like not really knowing her music outside of a few songs - this way I don't have the baggage of expectations, what I think a TS album SHOULD sound like.

Judging it on its own as a standalone album irrespective of her other work (and this is a kneejerk rating), I'd give it a 7.5/10. I see on Metacritic that, ATT, it's sitting at 94/100. That is a little over flattering IMO but it doesn't make my head spin to see that.

I couldn't see myself grabbing this on vinyl, but it would potentially be a CD grab for me.

Immediate standout track: the last great american dynasty (steeped in storytelling); I also liked my tears ricochet and august (the instrumentation is great on this track and some of things she does with her lyrics and voice are great; "but I can see us lost in the memory..." that refrain is sweet [in fact, a bit of the melody reminds me of Donna Lewis "I Love You Always Forever"] and the song ends really strong); I'd have to give it more listens to form fuller opinions about individual tracks.

Edit: this is me trying is growing on me; i also like the build up and light crescendo of illicit affairs (like a soft drizzle that builds to a steady rain), although I found the beginning of the song to be a bit forgettable (the drizzle part) and thought it finished much better; invisible string is another song with strong lyrics and I like the plucked string accompaniment (at first I thought it was a banjo but reading the credits, it sounds like a plucked viola/violin) - in fact, invisible string has really come up as a great track to me. Cardigan has some choice lyrics ("A friend to all is a friend to none; Chase two girls, lose the one" [THE ONE])
 
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Without being a fully entrenched "Swiftie", I had 2, now I have 3.........in no particular order, Folklore, Red and Speak Now. I gotta agree with an "angle" that @Lord Diaper Baby mentioned in his comment, I think a lot of people into music carry a bit too much baggage, as he phrased, when TS comes into the conversation. The sad part, and I know people guilty of this, those same people have never sat down and listened to her music, it's all based on the "other" stuff.

Again, I'm not a die-hard by any means (Insert Jonah Hill gif here..........you know the one), but I do appreciate her talent.
 
Without being a fully entrenched "Swiftie", I had 2, now I have 3.........in no particular order, Folklore, Red and Speak Now. I gotta agree with an "angle" that @Lord Diaper Baby mentioned in his comment, I think a lot of people into music carry a bit too much baggage, as he phrased, when TS comes into the conversation. The sad part, and I know people guilty of this, those same people have never sat down and listened to her music, it's all based on the "other" stuff.

Again, I'm not a die-hard by any means (Insert Jonah Hill gif here..........you know the one), but I do appreciate her talent.
TBH, the baggage I was talking about was relative to her sound. I think you may also be talking about her public image -which is another type of baggage.
 
Now I dare you to make a top 10 of TS songs.

off the top of my head...not including the new album......

all too well
sad beautiful tragic
safe & sound
dear john
new year's day
blank space
style
i know places
red (particularly the cma version with alison krauss and vince gill)
forever and always (piano version)
 
So imma put in my 2-cents 'cause as T-Swizzle would say "If you don't like it, you can go fuck yourself!" (Does she say that? Prob not, but roll with it).

I'm, admittedly, not a TS fan. I'm also not not a fan - if that makes sense? I'm long past a time in my life in saying that this or that music is "bad" or "sucks" - with maybe a few exceptions. I can't deny that a person who has had longevity, legions of fans, and sold millions has got talent. That also doesn't mean it has to be for me; 'cause not everything in this world is for me and that's okay. I can probably only think of a few TS songs off the top of my head. The Shake It Off one - yea, that's catchy as hell. The one where she sings about never, ever getting back together....wheeeee (that one is an earworm....I used to work in a warehouse that had a radio with reception that came in for only one adult contemporary/pop station and I heard that song everyday - you betcha that I was wheeeing right along with her!). And the song that has the video where she is with a bunch of female baddies and shit blows up....is it called Bad Reputation??? Yes, I could easily look this stuff up but y'all are the experts so you know what I'm trying to reference.

RE: the Kanye v TS thing I've been seeing pop up here. Don't care. Don't have a substantial opinion. Obviously know the background 'cause I've not lived under a media rock the last handful of years. But, again, don't care. The music exists outside of that.

Anywhooo....hearing all this talk of folklore piqued my interest. Like I've said, I'm not super familiar with her discography unless it's been all over the airwaves. And, quite honestly, I'm usually so insulated with putting on records, CDs, or stuff from my digital library that I miss a lot of stuff that hits the radio. But from what I can gather, this album represents a departure from her larger oeuvre? Now for those of you who are big into her - is this like a complete 180 in sound or more of a - while unexpected, not totally leftfield - pivot?

With that said, I am listening to it for my second time through while I type this. I gotta say, I like it. I also like not really knowing her music outside of a few songs - this way I don't have the baggage of expectations, what I think a TS album SHOULD sound like.

Judging it on its own as a standalone album irrespective of her other work (and this is a kneejerk rating), I'd give it a 7.5/10. I see on Metacritic that, ATT, it's sitting at 94/100. That is a little over flattering IMO but it doesn't make my head spin to see that.

I couldn't see myself grabbing this on vinyl, but it would potentially be a CD grab for me.

Immediate standout track: the last great american dynasty (steeped in storytelling); I also liked my tears ricochet and august (the instrumentation is great on this track and some of things she does with her lyrics and voice are great; "but I can see us lost in the memory..." that refrain is sweet [in fact, a bit of the melody reminds me of Donna Lewis "I Love You Always Forever"] and the song ends really strong); I'd have to give it more listens to form fuller opinions about individual tracks.

Edit: this is me trying is growing on me; i also like the build up and light crescendo of illicit affairs (like a soft drizzle that builds to a steady rain), although I found the beginning of the song to be a bit forgettable (the drizzle part) and thought it finished much better; invisible string is another song with strong lyrics and I like the plucked string accompaniment (at first I thought it was a banjo but reading the credits, it sounds like a plucked viola/violin) - in fact, invisible string has really come up as a great track to me. Cardigan has some choice lyrics ("A friend to all is a friend to none; Chase two girls, lose the one" [THE ONE])
I mean I’m not a super die-hard or anything, but it sounds like mostly you’ve heard the singles. Which in my opinion are the least representative of her stuff. Like most artists, you gotta go deeper to see if you enjoy it. And I think that’s why people write her off. Personally, none of the singles are my favorite songs of hers. Folklore isn’t a super radical departure cause I feel she’s already proven she can write songs like this. Now, it is a different style than what’s come before, but it sounds more like a natural growth rather than a massive shift in sound.

I’d suggest Red if you wanna dive further in. But some tracks on Lover are worth checking out if you like Folklore (The Archer, It’s Nice To Have A Friend, Lover, Soon You’ll Get Better, but I’d also suggest False God...love that track).
 
I have only listened to Red through Folklore...

But honestly

Lover > 1989 > Folklore > Red > Reputation


And Red is still a fantastic album. Reputation is the only one that has more misses than hits. And some of those songs I absolutely can’t stand.

I can see Folklore rising higher, but I can’t put it any higher than that cause I haven’t listened to it enough.
I’m in the same boat as far as Red being the first album I’m familiar with. I’d rank them:

1989 — Red — Folklore — Lover — Reputation

The first four can pretty much move around from day to day, I like Reputation just fine but don’t think it would ever leap over any of the other four.
 
I mean I’m not a super die-hard or anything, but it sounds like mostly you’ve heard the singles. Which in my opinion are the least representative of her stuff. Like most artists, you gotta go deeper to see if you enjoy it. And I think that’s why people write her off. Personally, none of the singles are my favorite songs of hers. Folklore isn’t a super radical departure cause I feel she’s already proven she can write songs like this. Now, it is a different style than what’s come before, but it sounds more like a natural growth rather than a massive shift in sound.

I’d suggest Red if you wanna dive further in. But some tracks on Lover are worth checking out if you like Folklore (The Archer, It’s Nice To Have A Friend, Lover, Soon You’ll Get Better, but I’d also suggest False God...love that track).
Oh yea it’s def only singles I’ve heard.

I’m sure people have written her off. I hope my post didn’t make it seems as if I had. It’s not an either/or. I may not have an interest in her music but I’ve got respect - there are a lot of artists like that.

Honestly, I do not plan on listening deeper into her catalog. Perhaps if I’m hanging w someone who loves her then I’ll ask for them to play some deep cuts.
 
If your entry point was Red, I would highly (HIGHLY) recommend Speak Now and Fearless. The self titled is good as well but most everyone knows the 4-5 big singles off of it.
 
Top 10 Taylor Swift (this is impossible)

1. Holy Ground
2. Cruel Summer
3. betty
4. Delicate
5. Blank Space
6. All Too Well
7. illicit affairs
8. Death by a Thousand Cuts
9. Style
10. Mine

HM’s: the 1, Dress, Lover, Ours, exile, Mean, Fearless, Tim McGraw, Begin Again, Red, august, State of Grace, Long Live, 22, cardigan, Stay Stay Stay, Nice to Have a Friend, False God, peace, Getaway Car, King of My Heart, mirrorball, Call it What You Want, Begin Again......I mean, her disco is stacked, I could list 20 more.
 
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Haven't listened to anything other than watching the video for Cardigan. That is the most The National sounding Taylor Swift song I've heard. It's really good. I gave the album to my daughters this morning and they're both working through it now. They've liked mostly everything of hers since Red but weren't huge fans of Reputation. I think I lean to 1989 being the one I like the most. We usually listen to her albums when we go somewhere in the car. Not as much of that nowadays but it's good to know we have a new entry for our car tunes.
 
Haven't listened to anything other than watching the video for Cardigan. That is the most The National sounding Taylor Swift song I've heard. It's really good. I gave the album to my daughters this morning and they're both working through it now. They've liked mostly everything of hers since Red but weren't huge fans of Reputation. I think I lean to 1989 being the one I like the most. We usually listen to her albums when we go somewhere in the car. Not as much of that nowadays but it's good to know we have a new entry for our car tunes.
There's more songs that almost just sound like Taylor singing on top of The National's more balled-y stuff. Even the ones that Aaron didn't work on sound similar to The National. Like My Tears Ricochet was written just by Taylor but the instrumental's sound and movement sounds close to Hey Rosey to me.
 
There's more songs that almost just sound like Taylor singing on top of The National's more balled-y stuff. Even the ones that Aaron didn't work on sound similar to The National. Like My Tears Ricochet was written just by Taylor but the instrumental's sound and movement sounds close to Hey Rosey to me.
I really, really want to either see a documentary or read a deep dive into exactly how this album was recorded. The piano sound throughout sounds like the exact one the National have used for years, but I also remember St. Vincent talking on Song Exploder about how she used Jack Antonoff’s piano on “New York” (which sounds pretty similar). Were the piano parts recorded by one or more of those folks remotely? Did they get on Zoom and talk about how to achieve that precise sound at Taylor’s home studio?

It seems like it’s an album that both sprung entirely from Taylor’s quarantined head AND is pretty collaborative, but whatever collaboration happened must have been fairly remote (and before I get into a fight, I want to stress that acknowledging the collaboration that’s been touted as part of the album’s rollout is not intended in any way to take away from what she accomplished here). I need to know everything about it.
 
Pretty good interview with Aaron Dessner about how this came together. Biggest takeaway from it, Taylor is an amazing songwriter. Aaron sent her all of the stuff he had been working on. She sent back "cardigan" to him.

 
I really, really want to either see a documentary or read a deep dive into exactly how this album was recorded. The piano sound throughout sounds like the exact one the National have used for years, but I also remember St. Vincent talking on Song Exploder about how she used Jack Antonoff’s piano on “New York” (which sounds pretty similar). Were the piano parts recorded by one or more of those folks remotely? Did they get on Zoom and talk about how to achieve that precise sound at Taylor’s home studio?

It seems like it’s an album that both sprung entirely from Taylor’s quarantined head AND is pretty collaborative, but whatever collaboration happened must have been fairly remote (and before I get into a fight, I want to stress that acknowledging the collaboration that’s been touted as part of the album’s rollout is not intended in any way to take away from what she accomplished here). I need to know everything about it.
This is an interesting interview with Aaron Dessner, and while it won't answer all of your questions, it does get to the collaborative nature of the project, and also speaks very directly to the craziness of any notion that Taylor's genius in all of this might be questioned (which is in keeping with your point). Also, considering the beautiful photography that characterizes the physical versions of folklore, I think it (the overall project) is a sign of Taylor's growing maturity that she makes great use of collaboration, presumably with other artists she trusts and whose work she admires.
 
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This is an interesting interview with Aaron Dessner, and while it won't answer all of your questions, it does get to the collaborative nature of the project, and also speaks very directly to the craziness of any notion that Taylor's genius in all of this might be questioned (which is in keeping with your point). Also, considering the beautiful photography that characterizes the physical versions of folklore, I think it (the overall project) is a sign of Taylor's growing maturity that she makes great use of collaboration, presumably with other artists she trusts and whose work she admires.
WHO IS WILLIAM BOWERY???
 
Top 10 Taylor Swift (this is impossible)

1. Holy Ground
2. Cruel Summer
3. betty
4. Delicate
5. Blank Space
6. All Too Well
7. illicit affairs
8. Death by a Thousand Cuts
9. Style
10. Mine

HM’s: the 1, Dress, Lover, Ours, exile, Mean, Fearless, Tim McGraw, Begin Again, Red, august, State of Grace, Long Live, 22, cardigan, Stay Stay Stay, Nice to Have a Friend, False God, peace, Getaway Car, King of My Heart, mirrorball, Call it What You Want, Begin Again......I mean, her disco is stacked, I could list 20 more.

It's funny because I don't consider myself a fan of TS, I just really like a lot her music, but it's fucking impossible to choose ten songs. I can chose ten songs of Björk, and I consider I'm a fan of Björk. Taylor Swift? I just can't.
But let me try (and this is without considering Folklore)

Red
Should've said no
All too well (I guess this one will be on everybody's lists)
I did something bad
Blank space
New romantics
Out of the woods
Delicate
Soon you'll get better
Call it what you want

And I'm leaving A LOT of songs out of this list
 
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