The NBA Thread

The problem with that build slowly approach is the Knicks just got slightly better in the short term without realistically being a playoff team. Trying to be like the 4th or 5th worst team in the East instead of the worst team in the East is low-key terrible.
It doesn't matter anymore if you are the worst team in the East. The lottery is a crap shoot now. The Pelicans won almost twice as many games as us last year and ended up getting the 1st pick. You can no longer just try to actively be the worst team and not improve and be guaranteed a #1 pick. The worst thing for us to do would have been to make moves to try to get us to an 8th seed because there's no clear path to us for contention with our current roster. May as well have a young team out there with upside again next year, try to get another lotto pick and keep building.
 
Giving achilles-torn KD a max contract with no other max FA coming here is a terrible move too though. It will be at least 2 years before he comes back as a shell of himself and you tie up 35% of the cap with him. It has potential to be Amar'e 2.0. It's so bizarre to me that reports came out the other day that the Knicks wanted to see KD's medical records and people said lolknicks about it. Any team signing KD to a 4 year max should look at his medical records after he suffered the worst injury a basketball player can have. If the Nets or anybody else had asked to see his records, it would have been smart and due dilligence. Instead, it's just an lolknicks circle jerk at this point. The team deserves some of it after the past 20 years but I do think we have turned a corner and not done a lot of the mistakes we have done in the past (not giving up picks to trade for guys entering FA, not signing injured or old guys to long-term max deals, etc.).

There were only 4 FA worth maxing this summer. Kawhi, KD (pre-injury), Kyrie and Klay. Kawhi coming here was the longest of long shots. I, along with most Knicks fans, didn't want Kyrie alone after his disastrous season with a young team. Klay was never leaving. If KD came and he wanted someone like Kemba, then you go for both. As soon as Kyrie zeroed in on Brooklyn, it was over for the Knicks. The last thing you want is KD coming back from achilles injury with no other max player to lessen his load on offense and defense.

Dominique Wilkins is the only NBA player to come back and be himself (actually was slightly better) after an achilles tear. People saying that KD is going to come back 90% of what he was don't know what they are talking about. Everyone has declined pretty substantially after an achilles tear. I would have gone after KD if one of those other 4 players I mentioned wanted to come here. Otherwise, it's a huge gamble that we have seen before with the Knicks. Had the Knicks only signed KD, the entire narrative would have been "haven't the Knicks learned from signing injured superstars to max contracts??" It was always going to be a lose-lose situation for the Knicks.

Our offseason is whatever. There are way worse contracts going around than what we have signed so far. Randle's is a good contract. Nothing we signed is over 2 years yet we still get all their bird rights. They are also all likely very tradeable contracts if we decide to go that route. For once we have flexibility and didn't offer Terry Rozier $60 million on a 3 year fully guaranteed deal. Jamal Murray getting 170 mil/5 years is bonkers. Rubio even at 3/51 is bad. We accomplished what I was hoping for this summer: if we struck out on big names, I didn't want us to max any mid tier guys on a long-term deal. We are finally rebuilding. Whether or not it works out, we'll find out in a few years. I'm just glad that we aren't deciding to try to cut corners this time.
Even a one legged KD on a max is a step in the right direction for the Knicks. It shows other mega stars it's safe to go play for the Knicks again, that alone is worth the max deal. Not to mention youd get another year or two of bad basketball that helps you build a young team around him for if he does come back. Everything the Knicks did yesterday brings them further away from the ultimate goal of winning a chip, even if it makes them slightly better in the here and now.
 
Rubio to the Suns is.....interesting.
I still would've rather had DLo/Brogdon, but Rubio is probably the next best choice. Strong passer, can defend and can push the pace. He's the best fit with Ayton, after a rookie season where he was criminally mis-used, perpetually given the ball way out of position and still managed to put up historic metrics for a rookie. Having a real point guard who can feed him the ball in position is going to be crucial for his development. And also very importantly it alleviates ball handling pressure off of Booker and lets him focus on doing what he does best. Saric should benefit as well.

I think we still lack a scoring wing, but as long as we can re-sign Oubre we should be massively better than last year - which isn't saying much for a 19 win team - but it's a decent first step to getting back to relevance.
 
Even a one legged KD on a max is a step in the right direction for the Knicks. It shows other mega stars it's safe to go play for the Knicks again, that alone is worth the max deal. Not to mention youd get another year or two of bad basketball that helps you build a young team around him for if he does come back. Everything the Knicks did yesterday brings them further away from the ultimate goal of winning a chip, even if it makes them slightly better in the here and now.
It's not though...tying up 35% of the cap with a guy who very well could be a shell of himself is a bad move. Everyone says that KD can still just shoot over guys even with his Achilles torn. That is not what made KD a great player. Everything you just said is exactly what happened with Amare and look how that turned out. I've been a Knicks fan for over 20 years now. I've seen it all. This offseason is nowhere near the worst case scenario for us.

Everything the Knicks did yesterday was just continue to build around what we have and add more young talent. We signed young guys with upside on low risk, potentially high reward contracts (we hold their rights after these contracts are up). We balanced the roster a bit more.

It took the Nets 5 years to rebuild. Now they signed Kyrie and KD. They were patient with no picks. We have a lot of picks and are being patient. There's no sense in us rushing it just to try to be relevant. A Nets team with Kyrie and injured KD isn't even the favorite in the east. I bet the Nets barely improve record-wise and get knocked out in the first round again this year.

I'm fine with being patient and adding little pieces for now instead of trying to go for a home run with a team that wouldn't be enough to make us a contender for the next 4 years and KD alone wasn't going to do that.
 
Everybody is saying that “even KD at 90% is worth the max!” But that’s crazy talk. Nobody knows how he will come back. And yes, he can still probably shoot over some people but like you said, playing like a guard was one of his best skills and he likely will lose that. People clowning the Knicks for supposedly not wanting to offer a max to a guy coming off the worst injury a basketball player can have but it’s a somewhat prudent move...


I'm fine with them not giving injured KD a four year max deal. I don't believe that they weren't going to offer it if they thought he'd take it, and either way I think it is completely unnecessary and insane to put it out there publicly. It's emblematic of why star players treat this franchise like it's radioactive.
 
A bottom 5 team will end up with the #1 pick two out of every three draft lotteries. Tanking is not dead.
Knicks were the only bottom 3 team to pick in the top 3 this year. Trying to bank on the lotto odds at this point is foolish. You can't just not add talent to try to get the #1 pick. We added young guys with upside who can develop with the rest of our team and likely aren't good enough to knock us out of the bottom 3 this year. I'm okay with being patient and rebuilding this way. I prefer it way more than maxing someone like Boogie or adding players that would have improved the team enough to get us to the playoffs without making us real contenders while tying up cap space for 4 or 5 years.
 
tying up 35% of the cap with a guy who very well could be a shell of himself is a bad move.
If this was any other franchise I'd agree, but the Knicks need KD for more than just on the court reasons.
 
It's not though...tying up 35% of the cap with a guy who very well could be a shell of himself is a bad move. Everyone says that KD can still just shoot over guys even with his Achilles torn. That is not what made KD a great player. Everything you just said is exactly what happened with Amare and look how that turned out. I've been a Knicks fan for over 20 years now. I've seen it all. This offseason is nowhere near the worst case scenario for us.

Everything the Knicks did yesterday was just continue to build around what we have and add more young talent. We signed young guys with upside on low risk, potentially high reward contracts (we hold their rights after these contracts are up). We balanced the roster a bit more.

It took the Nets 5 years to rebuild. Now they signed Kyrie and KD. They were patient with no picks. We have a lot of picks and are being patient. There's no sense in us rushing it just to try to be relevant. A Nets team with Kyrie and injured KD isn't even the favorite in the east. I bet the Nets barely improve record-wise and get knocked out in the first round again this year.

I'm fine with being patient and adding little pieces for now instead of trying to go for a home run with a team that wouldn't be enough to make us a contender for the next 4 years and KD alone wasn't going to do that.
I think the fact that the 3rd year for Randle is a team option rather than guaranteed turns that from a bad idea into a good idea. Two year contracts for Gibson, Portis and Bullock are dumb (Portis you could have talked me into if they couldn't get Randle). I understand that they don't see any free agent opportunities next year, but having that cap space would still be valuable in the event that there are trade opportunities, either for impact players or to pick up draft assets in salary dumps.
 
I think the fact that the 3rd year for Randle is a team option rather than guaranteed turns that from a bad idea into a good idea. Two year contracts for Gibson, Portis and Bullock are dumb (Portis you could have talked me into if they couldn't get Randle). I understand that they don't see any free agent opportunities next year, but having that cap space would still be valuable in the event that there are trade opportunities, either for impact players or to pick up draft assets in salary dumps.
Bullock is a good shooter. A two year deal at that rate is pretty tradable for a 3+D player. Portis confuses me more than the other two because I think he's redundant but he also shot well last season from 3. Either way I think they did the 2 and 3 year deals to get rights in case these guys pan out. 1 year deals for anybody but a vet are stupid IMO.
 
If this was any other franchise I'd agree, but the Knicks need KD for more than just on the court reasons.
People said that about Amare though too and his knees were uninsurable. "A superstar chose the Knicks! It will turn things around for the franchise!" The rest is history. I'd rather try to build a base of players that we draft and develop at this point or try to make some smart trades. I have no doubt that KD and Kyrie to the Knicks was an actual thing that would have happened prior to the achilles tear.
 
Another thing to note about the Knicks is that a couple of weeks ago they accelerated the timeline to sell their season ticket plans. Let's say a certain stupid person with too much disposable income (perhaps the type of guy with a record habit serious enough that he spends significant time on vinyl-based internet message boards) had put down a deposit on a quarter-season plan back before the lottery; that person would have been told at that time that the plans would go on sale after the schedule came out later in the summer. Then back on June 17, that person would have been suddenly told that the plans were now going on sale on June 27, well before the schedule came out and three days before free agency began. Then, in order to not risk getting shut out or nosebled by waiting on FA decisions, that person would have had to plunk down for his 11 games (dates? opponents? Who knows!) last week and watch in horror as the next two years got flushed down the toilet.

They knew this was going to happen and moved to lock fans into season plans before everyone else found out. Just a rotten franchise.
 
Another thing to note about the Knicks is that a couple of weeks ago they accelerated the timeline to sell their season ticket plans. Let's say a certain stupid person with too much disposable income (perhaps the type of guy with a record habit serious enough that he spends significant time on vinyl-based internet message boards) had put down a deposit on a quarter-season plan back before the lottery; that person would have been told at that time that the plans would go on sale after the schedule came out later in the summer. Then back on June 17, that person would have been suddenly told that the plans were now going on sale on June 27, well before the schedule came out and three days before free agency began. Then, in order to not risk getting shut out or nosebled by waiting on FA decisions, that person would have had to plunk down for his 11 games (dates? opponents? Who knows!) last week and watch in horror as the next two years got flushed down the toilet.

They knew this was going to happen and moved to lock fans into season plans before everyone else found out. Just a rotten franchise.

Dolan profits even when the Knicks are atrocious because - New York.

Usually people make bad decisions like not offering KD max years and $ because people are just dumb, but when you know that your loyal fan base will keep paying and you will be the center of attention even if you are the worst team in the league you can get away with bad decisions in a way that you can't in most other cities.... and/or they knew weeks ago that nobody wanted to sign with the Knicks under this ownership so this is the story they came up with to try to make it look like it was Dolan's choice.
 
I dont know why when Brooklyn can still give the allure of NYC without any of the James Dolan downsides of the Knicks.
It doesn’t. If KD won a championship in a Knicks uniform, he would be catapulted to a top 5 all time player. If he wins with the Nets it won’t be a huge deal. The Nets will have bandwagon fans now but its not a real fan base. They had lowest attendance in the league last year and nobody cared that they made the playoffs.
 
Another thing to note about the Knicks is that a couple of weeks ago they accelerated the timeline to sell their season ticket plans. Let's say a certain stupid person with too much disposable income (perhaps the type of guy with a record habit serious enough that he spends significant time on vinyl-based internet message boards) had put down a deposit on a quarter-season plan back before the lottery; that person would have been told at that time that the plans would go on sale after the schedule came out later in the summer. Then back on June 17, that person would have been suddenly told that the plans were now going on sale on June 27, well before the schedule came out and three days before free agency began. Then, in order to not risk getting shut out or nosebled by waiting on FA decisions, that person would have had to plunk down for his 11 games (dates? opponents? Who knows!) last week and watch in horror as the next two years got flushed down the toilet.

They knew this was going to happen and moved to lock fans into season plans before everyone else found out. Just a rotten franchise.
Doesn’t that happen every year though? I got calls from the Knicks ticketing office weeks ago about locking in a mini ticket plan. It’s still shitty but not unique to the Knicks or this season.
 
It doesn’t. If KD won a championship in a Knicks uniform, he would be catapulted to a top 5 all time player. If he wins with the Nets it won’t be a huge deal. The Nets will have bandwagon fans now but its not a real fan base. They had lowest attendance in the league last year and nobody cared that they made the playoffs.
 
Doesn’t that happen every year though? I got calls from the Knicks ticketing office weeks ago about locking in a mini ticket plan. It’s still shitty but not unique to the Knicks or this season.
No - usually the plans don't go on sale until after the schedule comes out (you know, so people can know what games they're buying). They come out looking for deposits earlier. This year they most certainly changed the plan at some point in the last month and a half, and another thing that happened at some point within that time frame is that they found out they weren't even going to get a meeting with KD.
 
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