The NBA Thread

blissfullychaotic said:
I don't believe in this 'process'. The rules have changed and getting the top pick has become that much more difficult. Tanking is terrible for businesses in the surrounding area, and going to games aren't really that much fun when you know the team is going to play embarrassing basketball.

I believe getting into the playoffs build chemistry and experience. I look at the 76ers as an example and they have still done nothing since 2013 when the tank began. Sure they made it to the playoffs after 5 years of dismal basketball, only to lose in the second round the past two seasons and with the east getting stronger they are unlikely to make it past the second round again next year without making some major moves.

I think getting Sexton into the playoffs and the rest of the younger guys that playoff experience will only benefit them in the long term.
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The Sixers are the only team that actually gave the team one win away from the championship any issues.

The Process was an overwhelming success.
 
sahomerrocks said:
The Sixers are the only team that actually gave the team one win away from the championship any issues.

The Process was an overwhelming success.
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I will wait 3 more years to see if it was an overwhelming success, in my opinion they need to win it all for it to be a success, but nonetheless the rules that allowed the 76ers to get this type of success has changed, so it's hard for me to believe that any team could try and tank and achieve the same results. We were tied for second with the worst record in the league and are picking 5th, we lost out on zion, we lost out on morant, we may have to settle for Culver or Hunter if we are lucky. This type of uncertainty forces me to believe that the 'process' is dead and we now got to focus on developing who we have and find ways to bring in FA
 
blissfullychaotic said:
I will wait 3 more years to see if it was an overwhelming success, in my opinion they need to win it all for it to be a success, but nonetheless the rules that allowed the 76ers to get this type of success has changed, so it's hard for me to believe that any team could try and tank and achieve the same results. We were tied for second with the worst record in the league and are picking 5th, we lost out on zion, we lost out on morant, we may have to settle for Culver or Hunter if we are lucky. This type of uncertainty forces me to believe that the 'process' is dead and we now got to focus on developing who we have and find ways to bring in FA
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The flattening odds were always bullshit. This year's lottery rewarded the ethical teams that *checks notes* ...sat LeBron and AD down the stretch.

But this is results based analysis. Cavs could have gotten the 5th pick with the old odds. It's always been about giving yourself the best chance at a high pick, no matter what the odds are. This isn't going to stop teams from being bad for high picks. The fourth worst team is still going to tank to get to be the third worst team and have a 1.5% better shot at the first pick.

But what other options do the Cavs have next year besides being terrible for a good pick? They're currently $20M over the cap and are just under the luxury tax threshold. They won't be adding salary. All they can really do is hope to offload all those expiring contracts for picks. Maybe Love looks good, but a good Kevin Love doesn't make this a playoff team, so imo they should hope he plays well and trade him.
 
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sahomerrocks said:
But what other options do the Cavs have next year besides being terrible for a good pick? They're currently $20M over the cap and are just under the luxury tax threshold. They won't be adding salary. All they can really do is hope to offload all those expiring contracts for picks. Maybe Love looks good, but a good Kevin Love doesn't make this a playoff team, so imo they should hope he plays well and trade him.
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I agree with just about everything you said, we are in cap hell, but I am one of the few Cavs fans who wants to hold on to Kevin Love until he retires.
 
blissfullychaotic said:
I believe getting into the playoffs build chemistry and experience. I look at the 76ers as an example and they have still done nothing since 2013 when the tank began. Sure they made it to the playoffs after 5 years of dismal basketball, only to lose in the second round the past two seasons and with the east getting stronger they are unlikely to make it past the second round again next year without making some major moves.
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As a Sixers fan I couldnt be happier with the tank. There hasnt been meaningful basketball in Philadelphia since Iverson left, there were years of terrible basketball even before they let everyone know that was the plan. I know they havent got out of the second round of the playoffs yet, but I would have went through twice as long of a tank to have a team that I can truly believe in. "Tanking" is your best option if you are a bad to mediocre team in the NBA, sacrificing the short term for a greater long term goal just makes a ton of sense imo since the 9th seed is a much worse place to be than the last.
 
sahomerrocks said:
The flattening odds were always bullshit. This year's lottery rewarded the ethical teams that *checks notes* ...sat LeBron and AD down the stretch.

But this is results based analysis. Cavs could have gotten the 5th pick with the old odds. It's always been about giving yourself the best chance at a high pick, no matter what the odds are. This isn't going to stop teams from being bad for high picks. The fourth worst team is still going to tank to get to be the third worst team and have a 1.5% better shot at the first pick.

But what other options do the Cavs have next year besides being terrible for a good pick? They're currently $20M over the cap and are just under the luxury tax threshold. They won't be adding salary. All they can really do is hope to offload all those expiring contracts for picks. Maybe Love looks good, but a good Kevin Love doesn't make this a playoff team, so imo they should hope he plays well and trade him.
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NBA really needs to implement the farm system will baseball has, it seems like they are moving in that direction, that would assist in removing the tanking for better picks (not a full solution obviously, MLB teams tank too)
 
jaycee said:
So what's the rumor / word on Butler staying? Does he want to be in Philly? It isn't for everybody but he seemed to fit in with the city.
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I think the only person who really knows is Butler. I hear rumors hes staying and rumors hes leaving all the time. Personally I dont know why he would leave considering the Sixers can give him the best contract and are one of the few teams with a real shot of coming out of the East.
 
Enoch said:
NBA really needs to implement the farm system will baseball has, it seems like they are moving in that direction, that would assist in removing the tanking for better picks (not a full solution obviously, MLB teams tank too)
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They are slowly moving toward it with two-way contracts + GLeague teams. Once they eliminate one and done again, I think they will also gear up toward more of these types of deals and encouraging people to play in the GLeague. The biggest thing now is that not every team has a GLeague team and some that do are nowhere near the NBA team's practice facilities or stadiums.
 
Woob_woob said:
I think the only person who really knows is Butler. I hear rumors hes staying and rumors hes leaving all the time. Personally I dont know why he would leave considering the Sixers can give him the best contract and are one of the few teams with a real shot of coming out of the East.
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I think he stays. The question for me is do the Sixers max Tobias too? Jimmy showed up in playoff time but Tobi kinda disappeared and not sure he fits with the rest of that squad. If I'm the Sixers, I truly contemplate moving Simmons this summer to upgrade at the point and maybe elsewhere.
 
MikeH said:
They are slowly moving toward it with two-way contracts + GLeague teams. Once they eliminate one and done again, I think they will also gear up toward more of these types of deals and encouraging people to play in the GLeague. The biggest thing now is that not every team has a GLeague team and some that do are nowhere near the NBA team's practice facilities or stadiums.
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Yeah I think they need a GLeague team for each team, as far as the facilities for the G, that isn't much different than the MLB minors, they have okay facilities but nothing special
 
jaycee said:
Except nobody wants to pay for Simmons
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I don't think that is true though...there are lots of teams that would kill to have him. I just don't think that he fits well in Philly and needs to go to a team that has a good shooting coach like the Spurs. I don't think Simmons is a true point and it's why Philly fucking up the Fultz pick was such a big setback for that team...in theory, that would have been a good 1-2 pairing if Fultz had panned out.
 
Enoch said:
Yeah I think they need a GLeague team for each team, as far as the facilities for the G, that isn't much different than the MLB minors, they have okay facilities but nothing special
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It's not so much that the facilities are bad, but that some teams are nowhere near their affiliate. Boston's GLeague team is in Portland Maine, Miami's is in Sioux Falls South Dakota, etc. If you're doing call-ups or have two-way players, it's very difficult. The Knicks have had guys play in a GLeague game during the day and then play in an NBA game later that night, which sometimes has to happen with injuries and it's fine because their team is about an hour's drive away from NYC.
jaycee said:
I've come around to the European model of buying and selling players. If you're willing to spend / create an environment where the players want to be then they go there. It still has its problems, but is more equitable than the draft system
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Adam Silver is a HUGE fan of soccer and how they run things. There were rumors that he wanted to try to have the transfer window and other soccer elements put in place in the NBA. He also wants a mid-season tournament.
 
MikeH said:
I think he stays. The question for me is do the Sixers max Tobias too? Jimmy showed up in playoff time but Tobi kinda disappeared and not sure he fits with the rest of that squad. If I'm the Sixers, I truly contemplate moving Simmons this summer to upgrade at the point and maybe elsewhere.
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I bring the entire team back and try to add a piece or 2 to the bench. They played the Raptors to the last shot even though the starting lineup had only played a handful of games together and Embiid was sick most of the series. Simmons was an All Star his second year in the league, and hes only going to get better. I get frustrated with parts of his game, but NBA players arent fully formed until about 6 years into their career, and if Simmons works at it he can be one of the most dominant players in the league. The Sixers would be foolish to trade him now.
 
Woob_woob said:
I bring the entire team back and try to add a piece or 2 to the bench. They played the Raptors to the last shot even though the starting lineup had only played a handful of games together and Embiid was sick most of the series. Simmons was an All Star his second year in the league, and hes only going to get better. I get frustrated with parts of his game, but NBA players arent fully formed until about 6 years into their career, and if Simmons works at it he can be one of the most dominant players in the league. The Sixers would be foolish to trade him now.
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Simmons being an all star doesn't mean a whole bunch though. This has been the 2nd time he has pretty much disappeared in the playoffs outside of a few good games. The Sixers played better with Jimmy at point. I just don't understand Simmons...it's his 3rd year in the NBA (granted he redshirted) and the guy still doesn't shoot at all ever. If you looked at his shot chart without knowing who he is, you'd think he was a center. If he doesn't learn how to shoot or get over the mental aspect of it, then he has already reached his ceiling in my mind. You just can't have a PG who can't/won't shoot and expect to be a contender. I'd cut ties with Brett Brown and the coaching staff too despite people liking him as a person.

Kawhi's choice of what to do will be interesting (I think he might stay win or lose) and with KD likely rupturing his achilles, the entire free agency period changed last night.
 
MikeH said:
Simmons being an all star doesn't mean a whole bunch though. This has been the 2nd time he has pretty much disappeared in the playoffs outside of a few good games. The Sixers played better with Jimmy at point. I just don't understand Simmons...it's his 3rd year in the NBA (granted he redshirted) and the guy still doesn't shoot at all ever. If you looked at his shot chart without knowing who he is, you'd think he was a center. If he doesn't learn how to shoot or get over the mental aspect of it, then he has already reached his ceiling in my mind. You just can't have a PG who can't/won't shoot and expect to be a contender. I'd cut ties with Brett Brown and the coaching staff too despite people liking him as a person.

Kawhi's choice of what to do will be interesting (I think he might stay win or lose) and with KD likely rupturing his achilles, the entire free agency period changed last night.
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Yes being an all star doesnt mean much by itself but averaging 17/8.8/7.7 does and to think that a second year player is already at his ceiling is a misguided opinion to me. Brown made multiple smart moves throughout the post season and has earned a full season with that roster to show what he can really do. He has a high bar to reach next year and if he cant then I'm all for getting rid of him.

I hope Kawhi goes to the clippers next year and makes the East that much easier.
 
Woob_woob said:
Yes being an all star doesnt mean much by itself but averaging 17/8.8/7.7 does and to think that a second year player is already at his ceiling is a misguided opinion to me. Brown made multiple smart moves throughout the post season and has earned a full season with that roster to show what he can really do. He has a high bar to reach next year and if he cant then I'm all for getting rid of him.

I hope Kawhi goes to the clippers next year and makes the East that much easier.
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All fair points and my opinion is a little hot take-y on this haha. Simmons is good. I just am not sure he will ever be ELITE unless his trajectory really changes. It's just mind-blowing to me that he still refuses to shoot. Would be curious to see the last team that made the finals with a PG who shot I think 1 shot outside of 10 feet in an entire series. He had 6 3 point attempts all year last year. That's bonkers.

I think sometimes teams just need a change on the coaching side. We saw it with the Raptors and Casey and we have seen it other times. I know Brown didn't have the starting lineup much this year, but something needs to change for them to be a true contender. If the Bucks and Raptors change dramatically this offseason, then maybe they have a shot to come out of the east...but Simmons needs to work on a lot to reach his ceiling and we haven't seen much progress at all on the shooting front since he was drafted.
 
MikeH said:
All fair points and my opinion is a little hot take-y on this haha. Simmons is good. I just am not sure he will ever be ELITE unless his trajectory really changes. It's just mind-blowing to me that he still refuses to shoot. Would be curious to see the last team that made the finals with a PG who shot I think 1 shot outside of 10 feet in an entire series. He had 6 3 point attempts all year last year. That's bonkers.

I think sometimes teams just need a change on the coaching side. We saw it with the Raptors and Casey and we have seen it other times. I know Brown didn't have the starting lineup much this year, but something needs to change for them to be a true contender. If the Bucks and Raptors change dramatically this offseason, then maybe they have a shot to come out of the east...but Simmons needs to work on a lot to reach his ceiling and we haven't seen much progress at all on the shooting front since he was drafted.
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I agree 100% that Simmons will never be elite until he develops a jump shot, but even without that jump shot he is still a plus player at almost every other aspect of the game and will be elite if he ever does develop a jump shot. Giannis is a minus shooter and hes about to win MVP. I get that Giannis will at least try to shoot the ball, but I have to believe Ben will get to a place in his career where hes at least attempting shots. Really I'd be happy if he just improves hes FT% next year as I see that as his biggest flaw. He can get to the rim at will but tries to avoid contact because hes afraid to go to the line. If he developed into a 75-80%Ft shooter he becomes a plus 20 a night guy no problem even without a jumpshot.

Yes the Raptors and Bucks have better individual players than the Sixers but I still think the Sixers have a better team than both if everything falls the same for next year.
 
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