The Dark Side; Digital audio equipment recommendations and setup.

[apholden]

What about Amazon Music HD from my PC via optical to my Marantz PM6006?

What would make it "better", if anything? It sounds perfectly fine to me.

Optical cables carry digital, so you're using your Marantz's built-in DAC (like a built-in phonostage to use @displayname's analogy). Like phonostages, you can get a separate. I like my Schiit Bifrost, but I've only compared it to my laptop's built-in DAC.

If it sounds fine, then I say you won!

I honestly have no clue when it comes to digital.

I know Amazon has "HD" and "Ultra HD"

HD is 16 bit / 44.1 kHz - CD Quality

Ultra HD tracks have a bit depth of 24 bits, with sample rates ranging from 44.1 kHz up to 192 kHz, and an average bitrate of 3730 kbps.

It seems my PC only goes to 48 kHz - at least that's what the Amazon Music program is telling me.

The debates around bit depth and bit rate have some similarities to the debates around cables. CD quality was chosen based on research indicating 44.1 kHz is the limit of human hearing, and 16 bits gets you below the noise floor of known analog equipment. Based on that, there should be no reason to go higher, but too many people hear a difference to discount it. Maybe this is the same research that a nameless speaker company uses for "better sound."

As for your PC, that's tricky. Windows defaults were set based on the same research, and PC audio hardware was optimized for Windows. If you want to go higher, you might consider a DAC with a USB input (does your Marantz have USB in?). That would at least take the PC hardware out of the picture. Then it's down the rabbit hole of configuring both Windows and Amazon Music for the higher settings.

 

[LeeVing]

Optical cables carry digital, so you're using your Marantz's built-in DAC (like a built-in phonostage to use @displayname's analogy). Like phonostages, you can get a separate. I like my Schiit Bifrost, but I've only compared it to my laptop's built-in DAC.

If it sounds fine, then I say you won!



The debates around bit depth and bit rate have some similarities to the debates around cables. CD quality was chosen based on research indicating 44.1 kHz is the limit of human hearing, and 16 bits gets you below the noise floor of known analog equipment. Based on that, there should be no reason to go higher, but too many people hear a difference to discount it. Maybe this is the same research that a nameless speaker company uses for "better sound."

As for your PC, that's tricky. Windows defaults were set based on the same research, and PC audio hardware was optimized for Windows. If you want to go higher, you might consider a DAC with a USB input (does your Marantz have USB in?). That would at least take the PC hardware out of the picture. Then it's down the rabbit hole of configuring both Windows and Amazon Music for the higher settings.

Thanks....this Marantz doesn't have a USB input.

This is from the hype...

Reference Quality D/A Conversion for Digital Input

The PM6006 features high resolution D/A conversion and is equipped with the reference class CS4398 D/A converter, which provides up to 192 kHz/24 bit resolution for optimum fidelity with high resolution audio file types.

So I would need to go w/ USB out of my PC to a DAC to then go Optical to my Marantz to get "better" sound?

Or would it be some other way from the DAC to the amp?

 

[Joe Mac]

Thanks....this Marantz doesn't have a USB input.

This is from the hype...



So I would need to go w/ USB out of my PC to a DAC to then go Optical to my Marantz to get "better" sound?

Or would it be some other way from the DAC to the amp?

If you had a stand-alone USB DAC it would connect to your amp with just a normal RCA cable. USB/Optical/Digi Coax/i2s are different methods of carrying a digital signal, once it’s been through a DAC you have an analogue signal that an amplifier can use to send to your speaker. That marantz has an inbuilt DAC but it only accepts optical and coax as inputs so you can either connect with it digitally through optical or use a standalone DAC for USB/i2s etc

 

[LeeVing]

If you had a stand-alone USB DAC it would connect to your amp with just a normal RCA cable. USB/Optical/Digi Coax/i2s are different methods of carrying a digital signal, once it’s been through a DAC you have an analogue signal that an amplifier can use to send to your speaker. That marantz has an inbuilt DAC but it only accepts optical as an input so you can either connect with it digitally through optical or use a standalone DAC for USB/Digi Coax/i2s etc

I think the digital coax in also goes through the DAC...

Expanded Connectivity for Digital Inputs (2 Optical, 1 Coax) with Hi-res Audio Support

1 Coax digital and 2 Optical digital inputs are now available to connect digital devices and play back Hi-res Audio (up to 192kHz/24bit PCM) through the PM6006's advanced audio circuitry.

 

[LeeVing]

Thanks for the learning....I've never really put much time or thought in my digital audio equipment...

I have CD's and a old Marantz DVD player that I use for SACD, along with an OPPO Blu Ray player on the home theater. But I got out of the digital file game a while ago.

 

[Joe Mac]

I think the digital coax also goes through the DAC...

it does, you’re right I had a look and edited above. But basically you can use it’s DAC if you’re connecting with coax or optical but you’ll need an external DAC if you want to use anything else and it’ll connect to your marantz with rca and bypass your marantz DAC.

 

[LeeVing]

So...it comes down to what my PC/Window outputs?

I'm gonna check my SPDIF-Out properties

 

[LeeVing]

The only one that was checked was 48.0


I'll do some testing.

 

[Joe Mac]

So...it comes down to what my PC/Window outputs?

I'm gonna check my SPDIF-Out properties

pretty much. A cheap way of circumventing that could be to get a cheap google chromecast audio/Apple airport express (depending on your phone/computer flavour) connect it to your marantz via a 3.5mm mini optical to optical cable and then cast/airplay the likes of Spotify/amazon music/home files from a mobile/tablet/computer. You’ll likely have to go eBay as they have been discontinued now but plenty were made so there should be plenty knocking around on the used market.

 

[Joe Mac]

The only one that was checked was 48.0


I'll do some testing.

View attachment 21985

or if your computer has optical out you can just use that lol! Optical cables can go upto 24/192 so yeah I’d enable all of that!

 

[LeeVing]

or if your computer has optical out you can just use that lol! Optical cables can go upto 24/192 so yeah I’d enable all of that!

It does...that's what I use out to my amp.

This is what Amazon is telling me when playing their "Ultra HD" tracks.

Seems like I can't get 96 kHz...if that is accurate.

 

[Joe Mac]

It does...that's what I use out to my amp.

This is what Amazon is telling me when playing their "Ultra HD" tracks.View attachment 21986

Seems like I can't get 96 kHz...if that is accurate.

Maybe that’s because you used to have it set to that? Perhaps if you reboot after changing the settings it might recognise the new ones? Beyond that I'm not sure why!

 

[apholden]

Glad to hear you found some settings for higher sample rates. You might also want to poke around the Amazon player's settings. There might be something to change there.
I'll also second Joe Mac's suggestion. When all else fails, reboot!

 

[LeeVing]

I rebooted and it was the same....I downloaded and it downloaded the 96, but "Device Capability" is still at 48.

I'll mess around with Amazon.

Next time I reboot i'll take a peak in the bios, but I'm not sure if anything is there.

In the Windows SPDIF-Out properties testing works on the 192 but I'll play around in there, too.

 

[LeeVing]

I got it alright...



Some other settings in the Windows SPDIF-Out properties fixed it.

 

[LeeVing]

Now if only the new FKA twigs was in Ultra HD.




But this new Van is pretty good...may have to get it on vinyl

 

[SnowmaNick]

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare how the Bluesound Node2 and the Innuos Zen Mini mk3 sound via their analog outputs. I'm working on the upgrade path for the digital side of my system.

I currently have a node2 and am wondering if I should move to the Zen Mini and then eventually upgrade with an external dac or the opposite, upgrade the node2 with an external dac and then move to a zen for functionality later.

If the internal dac of the zen mini is better than the node that answers my questions but haven't been able to hear them side by side.

The Zen Mini MKIII was just reviewed over on Darko. John said the analog out, when using the stock switching power supply, was pretty blah, but perked up nicely with the optional LPSU.

Innuos ZEN Mini MK3 w/ LPSU review | Darko.Audio

Thinking about an Apple Mac Mini? Think twice.

darko.audio

 

[LeeVing]

Thanks for all your help yesterday....I've been enjoying listening to various streams from my PC...and not walking the 8 feet to my turntable.

 

[HuddieLedbetter]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of system upgrades and I could use guidance as the digital confuses the heck out of me. (Actually, most things confuse me, but let's start here). This overlaps with the overall recommendations thread, so apologies for some blur. "Skip to the end question:" What is your best recommendation for a ~$2K DAC/Streamer?

Current:
NAS , Win10 -- in office
Synology NAS -- most of my digital listening is currently through NAS/DS Audio (NAS app), Samsung Phone, Shure 535 as the in home no longer is highly finctional

The NAS is on a home network with GigE attached to a 3-5 year old Dell XPS all in ome box running Win10

On that same network, in LR:
Pioneer SC-57 AV Receiver
Oppo-95
Samsung TV (good? bought in ~2011)

Receiver drives two pairs of speakers:
1. Main speakers: Sonus Faber Concertos (~2002?), REL Storm 3 sub (also ~2002)
2. Roof deck speakers (Boston acoustics, wired from roof to LR)

Other:
1. Project Debut Carbon
2. Musical Surrounding Nova 3 phono (new)

Streaming worked okay previously -- mostly for the roof, but occasionally indoors, with okay sound and the lag that you'd expect from the period apps/tech. However, the apps for both the Oppo and Pioneer no longer function as as mobile phone OS has left them behind, etc. Bummer but also... Neither was that awesome and always had issues.

Overall upgrades in flight:
1. Speakers
2. Amp, Preamp
3. Need DAC/Streamer (and preamp?)
4. New turntable

I am/was trying to get the analog elements pretty clean and thinking of going with a SET amp and efficient speakers. Challenge, that is very 2-channel and I don't know if that works well with a TV (?) and so it might be solid state. If solid state, probably something like the Benchmark -- unless you all tell me to buy an integrated.

I currently don't have a streamer or DAC. I have already ripped 90% of 20 years of CDs to the NAS....so I do have a lot of files.

I would like to spend $2K ish (?) unless it also the preamp. I like my phonostage and so don't need that in the mix.

Questions:

1. Should I get an integrated DAC /Steamer/ Preamp? (A la Mytek?). My mental objection to this is that it feels like I'm bundling obsolescence (DAC/Streaming life span) with a longer horizon item (preamp)

2. I think I would like Roon +HD streaming service support (though I don't really know how Roon works, I like the idea of a remote that will probably keep working)

3. I have a passing interest in headphone but don't own any and they would come after cables as a purchase... So not for a while

4. Is there a way to have a DAC/streamer be shared -- or a good way to make sure it serves the LR (main) and the roof (?)

Last major question:. Am I being stupid, making this too hard, and should I just by an integrated and give up?

Thanks to anyone who read this far and for any advice

 

[Joe Mac]

1. No I wouldn’t go that way. I agree it’s bundling obsolesce. Is look to separate them out to two, or preferably 3, boxes.

2. Roon is immense. It’s basically a whole ecosystem for your digital music. You’ll have a core/server which controls everything (I use a little intel NUC with roons own server os ROCK) and can have various endpoints around the house (from smart speakers to boxes attached to hifi etc). Where is is very clever is that it’s app is unbelievably well designed and intuitive to use and it allows you to add files from qobuz and/or tidal to your library so making erasing the distinction between the streaming digital and the file digital in your collection.

3. Dunno.

4. By roof do you mean like a attic room away from your main system? If I’m understanding that right will you be wanting two zones where different music could potentially be streamed at the same time by different people? If so you will need a different end point in each room talking to your core. You could have a hifi steamer box attached to your amplifier either through a standalone DAC or a DAC built into either the amp or the steamer. You could then have a smart speaker or even another streaming box attached to a second set up in the other zone, there are so many potential end points with Roon.