Eastbound and Downish
Member
I have most of the Tone Poets, I'm just starting to buy the BN80's - trying to pace myself
The Blue Note Thread
- Thread starter stpaulbrowns
- Start date
I would say it almost certainly won't be. Joe said recently they are trying to avoid all the stuff that gets repressed all the time. I am not 100% sure of it, but I think it was also said at one point that they won't be retreading MMJ releases.
Here is a post where he says they won't be doing any albums already done by MMJ, AP, or Classic Records.
'Tone Poet' Jazz Reissue Series*
Wow... just wow. Driving home from work just now and had a few concerns. First of all, up until now Blue Note reissue LPs and Music Matters reissue...
forums.stevehoffman.tv
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Eastbound and Downish
Member
It's funny, all three of local shops are not really carrying much of the BN80's. I ask about them and THEY HAVEN'T HEARD OF THIS, "BN80 what"? It's kind of strange because at least one store carries a LOT of jazz. They seem to have the BN75's but as I've learned here these are NOT the BN's I'm looking for...
jamieanderson1968
Well-Known Member
Been very happy with all the BN80 releases so far. I definitely see a lot more of the BN75s in stores than the 80s.
Eastbound and Downish
Member
I have heard the BN80's have been great. I am looking forward to buying more of these next, just need to do it in a manner my wife does not divorce me (kidding.....I hope). I've got Art Blakey - Indestructible and Grant's First Stand on the way (thanks to whomever puts together the Jazz Reissues google doc, BTW!).
Having fun enjoying all of these albums, it's been a great way for me to be introduced to new music. Unfortunately, I think I'm addicted
Selaws
Well-Known Member
I've been picking up a handful of BN80's, mostly those which I cant see myself ever getting the original pressing (looking at you Jutta), and ive been impressed with them so far - way better than the BN75's.
Tone Poets are on another level of quality. I've never heard a MM so I can't compare them but I have picked up all the Tone Poets so far, apart from the Cassandra Wilson, and can't fault them. The pressings all sound fantastic, the package is just top quality, and the picks have been really great so far. I much prefer the lesser-known, hard to get stuff so I'm happy to see Joe is pushing for the more obscure, cheers for sharing that @johnpisme. And thank goodness they are extending the series, cant wait to see what pops up.
Does anyone have any white whale level releases they would like to see chosen?
Tone Poets are on another level of quality. I've never heard a MM so I can't compare them but I have picked up all the Tone Poets so far, apart from the Cassandra Wilson, and can't fault them. The pressings all sound fantastic, the package is just top quality, and the picks have been really great so far. I much prefer the lesser-known, hard to get stuff so I'm happy to see Joe is pushing for the more obscure, cheers for sharing that @johnpisme. And thank goodness they are extending the series, cant wait to see what pops up.
Does anyone have any white whale level releases they would like to see chosen?
jamieanderson1968
Well-Known Member
I am hoping Tina Brooks' True Blue and/or Back To The Tracks get released either as a BN80 or TP. I think Back To The Tracks might be more likely. True Blue had a nice Connoisseur pressing back in the 80s, but I keep losing out on eBay (not been trying too hard to get it)
kafunis
Well-Known Member
I know True Blue was done by MM, so TP won't do that , I have it on the Japanese DU Mono's that Kevin Grey did. I think a Tina Brooks is coming out on TP , Minor Move .
jamieanderson1968
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think both Minor Move and Waiting Game are coming out, one as a TP and the other as a BN80.
I hope it's not true that previous MM releases wont be considered for release as either a TP or BN80. True Blue is one that has not had a lot of reissues over the years.
I hope it's not true that previous MM releases wont be considered for release as either a TP or BN80. True Blue is one that has not had a lot of reissues over the years.
jamieanderson1968
Well-Known Member
As I get more into jazz and Blue Note, something that I wonder about is why the label kept a lot of sessions locked in the vaults for several years. I know there was a worry about flooding the market with releases by 1 musician. For example I think this was the case with Dexter Gordon's clubhouse. He had done several sessions and they kept that one in the vaults.
But for other musicians that does not seem to be the case, like Tina Brooks. BN only released True Blue during his lifetime (he died in the early 70's). His entire output as a band leader only makes 4 albums total.
And what did the musicians think about this? Someone as respected as Art Blakey must have been miffed with having Freedom Rider sit on the shelf for 3-4 years. Or was it a case that many BN musicians were so prolific that they fully understood that their output was way more than could be reasonably released close to the recording sessions.
But for other musicians that does not seem to be the case, like Tina Brooks. BN only released True Blue during his lifetime (he died in the early 70's). His entire output as a band leader only makes 4 albums total.
And what did the musicians think about this? Someone as respected as Art Blakey must have been miffed with having Freedom Rider sit on the shelf for 3-4 years. Or was it a case that many BN musicians were so prolific that they fully understood that their output was way more than could be reasonably released close to the recording sessions.
Eastbound and Downish
Member
Hmmm, maybe I need to read this more carefully, but both MM and BN80 released Art Blakey - Indestructible. So, maybe this is just a general guideline rather than a firm rule?
I agree, I would like to buy more of the MM releases/titles but not at those prices even though I've bought several in the past.
edit: ok, I read this again more carefully- sounds like the Tone Poet series mainy trying to look through the catalog to showcase more music that hasn't been already pressed Not sure about BN80 - hopefully they are a bit more liberal to pick titles that are popular but perhaps out of stock.
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Doctor_of_Jazz
Active Member
Hey ya'll. Just FYI that I picked up a bunch of Blue Notes from Toshiba and can sell them at 20% below the listed price on my Discogs. If you're not familiar with Toshiba Blue Notes, here's the short version from the London Jazz Collector.
A few exceptions to this gloom stand out, the most obvious being the pressing of Blue Note recordings in Japan, by King Records and Toshiba EMI. Dating from the ’70s and ’80s, the audio standard of these vintage pressings is consistently high, and favoured for near-silent vinyl. The presentation is not as forward as original Blue Note, but generally quite acceptable, more available and more affordable, especially for the rarest of titles.
King Records vintage pressings (1977-83) are generally preferred to Toshiba. Toshiba reissued most of the 1500 series between 1983-85, and most of the 4000 series between 1990-95. Beyond these dates however, Toshiba continued with further reissues through to the present day, however any Toshiba Blue Note manufactured after 1995 should be treated with great scepticism. Often sold on the back of the reputation of earlier years,more recent Toshiba are not the same audio quality as the vintage releases 1983-95. They include digital transfers, and even supposedly RVG-remastered for CD, cynically pressed on vinyl, and are not audiophile quality.
I have a handful more to post after I figure out my duplicates, but it has been an amazing experience getting so many Blue Notes! I've been in BN heaven for a while, but it's time to be realistic and let these go. I've got several up at eBay and will be posting more. But selling outside of those venues saves me the 'seller fees' and lets me know that these LPs are going to other BN fanatics like me. So please reach out if I can help fill a gap in your jazz collection!
So many records, so little time....
Thanks!
Doc
A few exceptions to this gloom stand out, the most obvious being the pressing of Blue Note recordings in Japan, by King Records and Toshiba EMI. Dating from the ’70s and ’80s, the audio standard of these vintage pressings is consistently high, and favoured for near-silent vinyl. The presentation is not as forward as original Blue Note, but generally quite acceptable, more available and more affordable, especially for the rarest of titles.
King Records vintage pressings (1977-83) are generally preferred to Toshiba. Toshiba reissued most of the 1500 series between 1983-85, and most of the 4000 series between 1990-95. Beyond these dates however, Toshiba continued with further reissues through to the present day, however any Toshiba Blue Note manufactured after 1995 should be treated with great scepticism. Often sold on the back of the reputation of earlier years,more recent Toshiba are not the same audio quality as the vintage releases 1983-95. They include digital transfers, and even supposedly RVG-remastered for CD, cynically pressed on vinyl, and are not audiophile quality.
I have a handful more to post after I figure out my duplicates, but it has been an amazing experience getting so many Blue Notes! I've been in BN heaven for a while, but it's time to be realistic and let these go. I've got several up at eBay and will be posting more. But selling outside of those venues saves me the 'seller fees' and lets me know that these LPs are going to other BN fanatics like me. So please reach out if I can help fill a gap in your jazz collection!
So many records, so little time....
Thanks!
Doc
Selaws
Well-Known Member
Its a great point and I imagine there's a number of factors behind what the musicians felt about it. First of all Blue Note paid the musicians for their practice time, so adding that on top of the money from the actual session I would image they were pretty happy with whatever Alfred Lion decided to do with the material. Like you said, most of the musicians had a load of music already released (not just with Blue Note either) so I would imagine they would see the sessions as a day-to-day job most of the time. If they were trying to push the boundaries and it was successful then I imagine these are the kind of albums that would definitely get released.
Im trying to remember which book I read it in, im 90% sure it was Jimmy Heath's autobiography, but he mentioned recording an album for Blue Note with Donald Byrd. He really liked the session and enjoyed working with Byrd, but Lion shelved the project and it wasn't released until much much later. However, a few months after the Blue Note session Heath then recorded for Riverside and brought Byrd on board, and that album was released. He was less annoyed that the original Blue Note session was shelved after that, not because of the music itself but because he wanted to release something with Byrd as a sideman. I always thought that was quite interesting.
Doctor_of_Jazz
Active Member
I was really impressed by the Connoisseur series. I did some A/B comparisons with these and (pre 95) Toshiba's and the Connoisseurs won out immediately. I've been doing more of these A/B comparisons as I now have duplicates and need to decide what to keep vs sell. Sometimes it's a wash, things are so close that I can't tell with audiophile headphones and NM LPs recorded at FLAC, listening back to back to the same passage of music. But the Connoisseur's stood out quickly to me. You'd have to really be listening to hear it obviously. Anything played as passive music would not show the difference, but with headphones, I was impressed.
Doctor_of_Jazz
Active Member
Also... not trying to steal folks as much as enhance the jazz community social awareness, come visit us over at www.reddit.com/r/Vinyl_Jazz/.
Just throwing this out there, I've listened to Indestructible on both MM and BN80 cuts and honestly, the difference is pretty slight. BN80s are seriously fantastic. You're getting the modern AAA reissue sound quality for a serious bargain, just losing the packing. That's a compromise I'm happy with. I hope they keep the BN80 going for a long time...
Doctor_of_Jazz
Active Member
Wholeheartedly agree with this. The fact that BN doesn't have to license their own music plays a significant role. The packaging is the difference to me. I'd definitely pay more for a quality jacket/gatefold, but not obscenely more. This is a marketing trick IMO. I really wish BN would just take the Tone Poet approach and uphold the quality in both vinyl and jackets that they deserve.
Would you pay $5-8 more for a quality gatefold jacket for that killer release? I would, and would guess most would too. Am I wrong?
Yep totally agree. If they only keep one of the reissue campaigns, I hope it's Tone. I hope they keep both going though.
I'm saying that more for anyone on the fence about the BN80 releases. You're not getting an interior product wrt sound quality. They really are fantastic. I doubt I'll ever get another version of any of the BN80s I have... unless reasonable RVG originals pop up of course.
Joe said in that talk at the making vinyl conference that Alfred Lion either implied or said that part of the reason was that they were a small company recording such a high number of dates that some of the records were kind if put on a shelf and forgotten about.
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Joe isn't in charge of BN80, he was just referring to the Tone Poet series.