If you wanna make money, invest in war, safest bet there is.
Political Discussion
- Thread starter David A.
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If you wanna make money, invest in war, safest bet there is.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
$10,000 Invested in Defense Stocks When Afghanistan War Began Now Worth Almost $100,000
Was the Afghanistan War a failure? Not for the top five defense contractors and their shareholders.theintercept.com
Yeah, is this news? Where did people think that our military budget goes? If I'm surprised at anything, it's that the return is lower relative to the overall S&P than I might have guessed.
'Frozen in time': Lobbyists, lawmakers and mayors plead with the White House to ease Covid travel restrictions | CNN Politics
Lobbyists, lawmakers and border mayors are imploring the Biden administration to ease restrictions on nonessential travel put in place 18 months ago at the onset of the coronavirus pandemic. But officials haven't budged even as other countries gradually open to Americans.
www.cnn.com
People want to return to normal and profiting off of travel again.
They are getting sick of travel restrictions from COVID.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
The pushback against this announcement is...vociferous. Anybody else witnessing the same thing at your own work?
Check with your legal department and see how much you can screenshot and share, kthx.
Max Sterling
Well-Known Member
Daily.
Our "all-hands" (Company Meetings) have "Dory's" (Question Forums) and they have been HEATED. Everyone on site here needs to be vaccinated by October 1st, including vendors like security staff, logistics, cleaning staff. Most of our Data Centers's are in rural/suburban areas.
All of our Mechanical Maintenance force are good ol' boys. Expert men and women who keep our cooling, power, and all sorts of other physical infrastructure running so we can keep our Servers and Network gear going. But because of their rural echo chambers and upbringing by and large are very much against a mandate.
Many of those who have or will get the vaccine don't believe the company should be allowed to mandate that restriction. But they gloss over the fact that working here is not a right. It's a choice to work here. If you choose not to get vaccinated, you're choosing to no longer work here. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Will it suck to have to find a new job? Yes, but it's still your choice.
Obviously we have medical and religious exemptions, so we'll see how far people push that. But I know for sure two of my direct coworkers are leaving and I assume a few more. There's going to be a good deal of "attrition" as the management likes to call it.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
100% the same thing I'm seeing here, only our deadline is November 15. I'm starting to see statements about what managers should expect in the event that multiple, or half, or even all of the employees on their teams are terminated overnight on November 16. I'm sure there's a backdoor cost savings occurring here in lieu of the biannual layoff cycle, but the self-selecting aspect of it is pretty weird.
Anyone quit or walkout over it yet?
Has the legality of that situation been tested or considered?
I know different jurisdictions, but in general we’re less vociferous about perceived infringement of “rights”, but the prevailing opinion in legal circles is that an employer even enquiring about vaccine status is potentially unlawful. That said we do have worker protections too.
Of course this is all very new law and it’s be interesting to see how a court would choose to frame such legal issues if they come before them.
The situation in Afghanistan is god awful. Especially women.
Under Taliban law women must wear a barka and must be accompanied by a male relative when they leave the house. They are also forbidden to work or go to school.
The Taliban took back Afghanistan so fast many young women didn't have time to buy barkas nor did they have any. Those caught out without a male relative or without a barka are being beaten by the Taliban.
Even CNN journalist, if they are female, need to wear a barka and be accompanied by a male relative to do their job / reporting. They are also fearful that they Taliban will tell them that they can't do their job because they are women.
Under Taliban law women must wear a barka and must be accompanied by a male relative when they leave the house. They are also forbidden to work or go to school.
The Taliban took back Afghanistan so fast many young women didn't have time to buy barkas nor did they have any. Those caught out without a male relative or without a barka are being beaten by the Taliban.
Even CNN journalist, if they are female, need to wear a barka and be accompanied by a male relative to do their job / reporting. They are also fearful that they Taliban will tell them that they can't do their job because they are women.
The overall situation is terrible but why should we expect religious fanatics to exempt CNN journalists from their rules
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
Not sure. Have seen some threats that some folks are considering Nov 15 their last day of work, but we'll see if they blink first. There's a townhall tomorrow afternoon to address some of the concerns that have been raised.
The company waited for (my speculation here) a few different signals, including but not limited to: military mandates, other industry leader mandates, the Supreme Court's ruling supporting public university mandates, and guidance from the EEOC. Seems probable to me that there will be a cottage industry of lawyers who make a living off convincing people to mount legal challenges to policies like this, but I doubt many of them will find purchase, so long as employers are making reasonable accommodations for disability/religious exemptions.
Max Sterling
Well-Known Member
I know specifically the company is allowed to have your vaccination status verified, the same way certain processes, like long term/short term leave or disability, require medical evaluations. They are not allowed to share that information with anyone else, however.
I've heard a couple people joke about faking their cards, since in most cases you just need to provide a picture of it. Hopefully they don't do that, as it's literally a federal crime, on account of that fancy little CDC logo in the corner.
Yeah I think the feeling is given EU workers protection and our constitutional jurisprudence that employees have pretty strongly established rights to bodily integrity and/or privacy and that it would be difficult to justify breaching those without legislative cover. That’s presuming that such legislative cover would even be deemed constitutional. Even if it was asking that question and how to store and use the data obtained would be an absolute nightmare under GDPR.
It’s also the bigger picture that while we all want everyone to have COVID vaccines does passing hard law that overrides rights allow for a potentially dodgy precedent to be set for future vaccines/medical procedures. I think there is little appetite to open any of those cans of worms here at the moment.
Thankfully we’re very vaccine compliant here so it’s not so much an issue perhaps. Despite a stalled vaccine campaign and huge initial supply issues we are now upto 75% of the adult population fully vaccinated and have started offering first jabs to the 12-16 cohort.
Indymisanthrope
Well-Known Member
Fair points:
1. The mandate is currently limited only to employees in the states and Puerto Rico.
2. The difference between a statutory mandate and an employment one seems to be quite difficult for some of the workers here to grasp. I think we all share at least some level of discomfort with spotlighting this one part of our medical care as a grounds for termination from our livelihoods. And yet, as Max mentioned, there's right to employment anywhere. This isn't a "gunpoint" mandate, it's a "food on the table" mandate. It's good for business continuity, it's good for our insurance premiums, it's good for the safety of our fellow employees, and, perhaps more cynically, as a pharma giant it's probably also good for the relationship with the FDA as a show of confidence in emergency use authorizations.
Yeah we have must stricter laws surrounding employment and how and why you can release staff. The US multinationals lose their mind when they first arrive. The generous corporate tax regime softens the blow I suppose.
I think you’d end up paying out extraordinary amounts of compensation if you tried to terminate anyone on this type of medical ground over here and that’s how this would be seen. The intersection of strong employee protections and constitutional rights is a hard hurdle to overcome.
No one has shown any apetite to legislate either, probably because they feel it might be deemed unconstitutional.
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They aren't requiring vaccination at my work.
Most of the people that I work with pivoted to WAH and we have not pivoted back. They have sent out surveys to see if we have gotten vaccinated, but they aren't requiring us to come back to the office, nor are they requiring us to travel for work. We have a large number of retail employees as well that are also not required to be vaccinated.
When we look at vaccination trends, we find that vaccine hesitancy is highest in low wage workers. When they asked them about getting vaccinated, one fourth of these unvaccinated workers say that they will probably or definitely get the vaccine, and the data suggests that two thirds of these unvaccinated people are unsure but receptive to getting the shot.
Vaccination has been politicized, but juggling work schedules and child care could be bigger factors than politics.
- "A lot of low-income workers are working hard to provide food and housing," said Julia Raifman, a health policy professor at Boston University. "That may mean it's hard for them to find a time to get vaccinated."
- Workers also may worry about having to take unpaid time off if they come down with any vaccine side effects. Raifman has heard anecdotal stories of employees receiving less favorable hours if they miss work.
Most unvaccinated people have low incomes
Most low-income workers still want the shot, though.
www.axios.com
I would also like to point out that one third of all vaccine hesitant people are worried about cost.
Congress passed laws barring pharmacies and hospitals from billing patients for coronavirus vaccines. Signs at vaccination sites advertise that the shot is free. From the beginning, health officials and government leaders have told the public it won’t cost anything. And there have been few reports of people experiencing charges.
Even so, some unvaccinated adults cite concerns about a surprise bill as a reason for not getting the shot. Many of them are accustomed to a health system in which the bills are frequent, large and often unexpected.
A recent Kaiser Family Foundation poll found that about a third of unvaccinated adults were unsure whether insurance covered the new vaccine and were concerned they might need to pay for the shot. The concern was especially pronounced among Hispanic and Black survey respondents.
The Covid Vaccine Is Free, but Not Everyone Believes That (Published 2021)
Concern over unexpected bills was one of the reasons respondents in a U.S. survey gave for hesitation about getting the shot.
I bring all of this up because I'm very interested what will happen if my organization requires cashiers to get shots. My guess is that they will not because they don't want to limit their pool of applicants.
Looking at this from a meta-view, I really wonder how many large employers will extend their mandates to low wage workers given the problems they are having with staffing. WalMart is requiring some corporate and management employees to get a vaccine, but they have yet to push this on the cashiers. And yet it's these "essential workers" who are both most likely not to be vaccinated and to be in contact with the general public.
Max Sterling
Well-Known Member
Considering the timing of our mandate (In conjunction with a "Return to Office" plan) there has been a lot of outrage from folks who have been in the office the whole time. Many people feel like they only care about the higher paid employees with desk jobs and not us who physically HAVE to be on site to do our jobs. There's a lot of "Why are you only doing this now?"They aren't requiring vaccination at my work.
Most of the people that I work with pivoted to WAH and we have not pivoted back. They have sent out surveys to see if we have gotten vaccinated, but they aren't requiring us to come back to the office, nor are they requiring us to travel for work. We have a large number of retail employees as well that are also not required to be vaccinated.
When we look at vaccination trends, we find that vaccine hesitancy is highest in low wage workers. When they asked them about getting vaccinated, one fourth of these unvaccinated workers say that they will probably or definitely get the vaccine, and the data suggests that two thirds of these unvaccinated people are unsure but receptive to getting the shot.
Vaccination has been politicized, but juggling work schedules and child care could be bigger factors than politics.
- "A lot of low-income workers are working hard to provide food and housing," said Julia Raifman, a health policy professor at Boston University. "That may mean it's hard for them to find a time to get vaccinated."
- Workers also may worry about having to take unpaid time off if they come down with any vaccine side effects. Raifman has heard anecdotal stories of employees receiving less favorable hours if they miss work.
Most unvaccinated people have low incomes
Most low-income workers still want the shot, though.
I would also like to point out that one third of all vaccine hesitant people are worried about cost.
Congress passed laws barring pharmacies and hospitals from billing patients for coronavirus vaccines. Signs at vaccination sites advertise that the shot is free. From the beginning, health officials and government leaders have told the public it won’t cost anything. And there have been few reports of people experiencing charges.
Even so, some unvaccinated adults cite concerns about a surprise bill as a reason for not getting the shot. Many of them are accustomed to a health system in which the bills are frequent, large and often unexpected.
A recent Kaiser Family Foundation poll found that about a third of unvaccinated adults were unsure whether insurance covered the new vaccine and were concerned they might need to pay for the shot. The concern was especially pronounced among Hispanic and Black survey respondents.
The Covid Vaccine Is Free, but Not Everyone Believes That (Published 2021)
Concern over unexpected bills was one of the reasons respondents in a U.S. survey gave for hesitation about getting the shot.www.nytimes.com
I bring all of this up because I'm very interested what will happen if my organization requires cashiers to get shots. My guess is that they will not because they don't want to limit their pool of applicants.
Looking at this from a meta-view, I really wonder how many large employers will extend their mandates to low wage workers given the problems they are having with staffing. WalMart is requiring some corporate and management employees to get a vaccine, but they have yet to push this on the cashiers. And yet it's these "essential workers" who are both most likely not to be vaccinated and to be in contact with the general public.
But this thinking is a bit skewed in my opinion. We've had mask and social distancing mandates, elevator occupancy limits, and heavily reduced and separated staffing. Reintroducing all the PM's and Programmers back into the building lessens the effectiveness of all the precautions we have been taking, so making sure folks are vaccinated now makes sense. Not to mention how much time legal and HR had to spend making sure they could even do it.
I agree. If you are going to require a lot more people to come back in, policies should be put in place to make sure people don't get sick.
I'm concerned that these sort of mandates seem to only be capturing people in a cohort that is already rather vaccine compliant. Whereas the people that are least vaccine compliant as a group, tend to be people with high exposure to the general public. The reasons this group isn't getting vaccinated, in large part, has to do with their ability to leave work to get one, to be able to get off if they are sick from side effects without any negative work repercussions, and are concerned about surprise billing due to them being either uninsured or under insured ( a person who technically has health insurance, but their deductible is so high that they cannot use their health insurance). I feel like we have created a group of people that are so poorly compensated and over worked that it has become a physical barrier to them getting vaccinated. And no one is going to push to mandate vaccines for low wage workers, because businesses are already having a hard time getting people to work.
Chucktshoes
Well-Known Member
@Indymisanthrope
Speaking of your work, I was at y’all’s facility in Plainview today. Always a pleasure.
Speaking of your work, I was at y’all’s facility in Plainview today. Always a pleasure.