Political Discussion

“Think of the children“ will forever ring hollow and be an ineffective argument when used by someone on the left for a policy position to someone on the right.It is so ineffective in fact, that it is actually quite counterproductive.

***This is not directed at you personally in any way. I’m just making an observation about the statement itself.***

I understand that, but I really do mean this literally: he's fucking schools over and he's literally putting children in the most vulnerable position possible.

I mean, I guess it might be worse if he started conscripting children to work in covid wards or something.
 
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I understand that, but I really do mean this literally: he's fucking schools and he's literally putting children in the most vulnerable position possible.

I mean, I guess it might be worse if he started conscripting children to work in covid wards or something.
Children are at almost zero risk of dying from Covid. They make up 0.000560616445193% of the deaths from Covid in the US. (337 out of 601,124) It’s simply not a concern.

Source
 
Children are at almost zero risk of dying from Covid. They make up 0.000560616445193% of the deaths from Covid in the US. (337 out of 601,124) It’s simply not a concern.

Source
this is to assume the only concern of contracting Covid is the possibility of death.
 
Children are at almost zero risk of dying from Covid. They make up 0.000560616445193% of the deaths from Covid in the US. (337 out of 601,124) It’s simply not a concern.

Source
because the schools have been closed for a year, chuck. they're also at real low risk of being eaten by polar bears, but i suspect the numbers will change if we airdrop them into the polar regions.
 
because the schools have been closed for a year, chuck. they're also at real low risk of being eaten by polar bears, but i suspect the numbers will change if we airdrop them into the polar regions.
No, it’s because Covid simply doesn’t affect kids the way it dies older folks. This is something that has been well known since the beginning of the pandemic. The number one risk factor for severe symptoms and death is age.

Also, Schools haven’t been closed everywhere for the last year. Not even close. Our schools closed for a very short amount of time in spring of 2020. My daughter had only mild interruptions last school year. Hell, she even had her full soccer season.

The risk for children is minimal and there’s plenty of data to back that up. So chill, the sky ain’t falling my dude.
 
Children are at almost zero risk of dying from Covid. They make up 0.000560616445193% of the deaths from Covid in the US. (337 out of 601,124) It’s simply not a concern.

Source

You do realize children are being hospitalized with delta right?

There was an article yesterday out of Houston where a child had to be flown 150 miles to a different hospital because Houston was out of beds.

Also, those numbers are for COVID in whole, and not Delta specifically. Which is proven to hit young kids harder.
 
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You do realize children are being hospitalized with delta right?

There was an article yesterday out of Houston where a child had to be flown 150 miles to a different hospital because Houston was out of beds.

Also, those numbers are for COVID in whole, and not Delta specifically. Which is proven to hit young kids harder.
Even at the believed higher transmission and hospitalization rates for Delta, it’s still a very, very low danger to children.
 
Even at the believed higher transmission and hospitalization rates for Delta, it’s still a very, very low danger to children.

Let's try looking at it another way.

Schools are likely to be a breeding ground for Delta. Maybe most of the kids will not get hospitalized or die, but they for sure can take Delta home to their unvaccinated families. Hell, even their vaccinated families. The vaccine only reduces the risk of being hospitalized or death now. You can still get really sick for several weeks.

Florida is already reporting outbreaks in schools with young children. Once school as 7 children hospitalized and 5 teachers out with COVID within the first week. And this is why they are challenging DeSantis' mask mandate ban in school.
 
Let's try looking at it another way.

Schools are likely to be a breeding ground for Delta. Maybe most of the kids will not get hospitalized or die, but they for sure can take Delta home to their unvaccinated families. Hell, even their vaccinated families. The vaccine only reduces the risk of being hospitalized or death now. You can still get really sick for several weeks.

Florida is already reporting outbreaks in schools with young children. Once school as 7 children hospitalized and 5 teachers out with COVID within the first week. And this is why they are challenging DeSantis' mask mandate ban in school.
also, again as I stated above if death were the only concern then I would understand better not having a great worry of children contracting Covid. we obviously don't have proof that there are lasting effects and maybe there aren't, but I have seen those concerns of possible long term effects from Covid and I can't imagine any parent wanting that for their child/children.
 
Let's try looking at it another way.

Schools are likely to be a breeding ground for Delta. Maybe most of the kids will not get hospitalized or die, but they for sure can take Delta home to their unvaccinated families. Hell, even their vaccinated families. The vaccine only reduces the risk of being hospitalized or death now. You can still get really sick for several weeks.

Florida is already reporting outbreaks in schools with young children. Once school as 7 children hospitalized and 5 teachers out with COVID within the first week. And this is why they are challenging DeSantis' mask mandate ban in school.


Health is a concern, but this is what will have a bigger impact. Substitute’s aren’t teachers. There will be problems covering teachers classes during an outbreak.

And it’s not just the health of the kids. They take this virus home and pass it on to others in their house.

As much as remote learning sucked. I would be wanting to work in a school that has do deal with an outbreak multiple times a year.
 
I know that, sadly, COVID is a political issue, but we do have a thread specifically dedicated to it.

But my two cents in here: You can spit out numbers and statistics about how few children are seriously affected by the virus, but the fact remains children have and are dying, they are getting sick and bringing it home to their families. No one wants to wear masks and social distance for the rest of our lives, and I assume very few people enjoy getting vaccines. But if doing something small like wearing a mask, and getting vaccinated lowers the chances of even ONE child not dying or getting severely sick then spouting rhetoric about "living your life" and "not living in fear" is not only callous, but selfish.

It wasn't meant to be a forever thing, if everyone had followed guidelines for that short time we were all in actual lockdown, and enforced testing and quarantine for travellers things would be back to a place of normalcy already. But selfish, shortsighted, people made this what it is. Florida and Texas are seeing the sharpest rise in cases in children under 12. The more kids get it and pass it to other kids, the more significant that percentage becomes. Being okay with those consequences because you don't "live in fear" is irresponsible. It affects other people. You're making that call for other people, not just yourself, that's my issue with that take.

It's like smoking cigarettes in a room full of children.
 
I know that, sadly, COVID is a political issue, but we do have a thread specifically dedicated to it.

But my two cents in here: You can spit out numbers and statistics about how few children are seriously affected by the virus, but the fact remains children have and are dying, they are getting sick and bringing it home to their families. No one wants to wear masks and social distance for the rest of our lives, and I assume very few people enjoy getting vaccines. But if doing something small like wearing a mask, and getting vaccinated lowers the chances of even ONE child not dying or getting severely sick then spouting rhetoric about "living your life" and "not living in fear" is not only callous, but selfish.

It wasn't meant to be a forever thing, if everyone had followed guidelines for that short time we were all in actual lockdown, and enforced testing and quarantine for travellers things would be back to a place of normalcy already. But selfish, shortsighted, people made this what it is. Florida and Texas are seeing the sharpest rise in cases in children under 12. The more kids get it and pass it to other kids, the more significant that percentage becomes. Being okay with those consequences because you don't "live in fear" is irresponsible. It affects other people. You're making that call for other people, not just yourself, that's my issue with that take.

It's like smoking cigarettes in a room full of children.
Once again “think of the children” when coming from the left has absolutely zero weight because the left has absolutely zero standing on that front from the perspective of folks on the right.

Not only that, but when someone on the left uses that argument, the hairs on the back of the neck raise up and folks go on full alert looking for the sneaky authoritarian bullshit that must be coming down the line.
 
One of the things I have noticed at my apartment complex over the course of the last year and half or so (COVID times) is a lot of the cars in the parking lot now have plates from different states.

Lots of Maryland, New York, PA, New Jersey, Illinois, Delaware, Florida plates. I have even seen Alabama. Probably more than 1/3 of the cars here now have out of state plates.

Pre-covid, there was only ever one at any given time. And usually a close neighboring state like New Hampshire.

I wonder if all these people moved from cities because of the pandemic and work remotely options, or if something else is in play?
 
Once again “think of the children” when coming from the left has absolutely zero weight because the left has absolutely zero standing on that front from the perspective of folks on the right.

Not only that, but when someone on the left uses that argument, the hairs on the back of the neck raise up and folks go on full alert looking for the sneaky authoritarian bullshit that must be coming down the line.
As a Canadian, and someone who is personally pro-life (but doesn't know or understand enough to feel like I can or should make that decision for others), I take exception to your blanket "you're on the left you can't say that" nonsense. And the "but think of my freedoms" argument means nothing to me coming from someone on the right.
 
As a Canadian, and someone who is personally pro-life (but doesn't know or understand enough to feel like I can or should make that decision for others), I take exception to your blanket "you're on the left you can't say that" nonsense. And the "but think of my freedoms" argument means nothing to me coming from someone on the right.
I’m not saying you can’t say it. I’m stating that it’s an argument that is counterproductive as in, it doesn’t resonate in the way you think it should or would. I can also accept that some things folks on the right say don’t translate to you in the same ways either.

These sorts of differences in language and culture are part of why I don’t believe there is any path towards reconciliation, politically or otherwise, possible. When I say things like “it’s time for this country to consider an amicable divorce” it’s made from a sincere belief that it is the better and safer course of action.
 
These sorts of differences in language and culture are part of why I don’t believe there is any path towards reconciliation, politically or otherwise, possible. When I say things like “it’s time for this country to consider an amicable divorce” it’s made from a sincere belief that it is the better and safer course of action.
This is interesting to me. What would this divorce look like to you? With the majority of major cities leaning one way and rural America leaning the other, what, in your mind does an amicable breakup of America look like?
 
Once again “think of the children” when coming from the left has absolutely zero weight because the left has absolutely zero standing on that front from the perspective of folks on the right.

Not only that, but when someone on the left uses that argument, the hairs on the back of the neck raise up and folks go on full alert looking for the sneaky authoritarian bullshit that must be coming down the line.

The amusing thing about this is that the right has exactly zero credibility when it comes to that for the kids bullshit either. "No abortion! For the kids! " but no childcare, no head start, no food programs, no school programs, college, Healthcare, anything other than just being born it's straight no, fuck'em, do not pass go do not collect $200 do not get tax credits, once you're born just go die quietly out of sight. To anyone slightly to the left of frothing religious nutjobs, it's plainly a sexist manipulation tactic to control women. If it were even remotely about children, there would at least be some prenatal care provisions or something. But the only thing that seems to matter is making women have the babies, whether they want to or not, or whether they'll be ok afterwards or not.
 
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This is interesting to me. What would this divorce look like to you? With the majority of major cities leaning one way and rural America leaning the other, what, in your mind does an amicable breakup of America look like?
I’m not smart enough or arrogant enough to think that I know what will work. So please have a bit of grace with me as I am sure I’m bound to cock up this answer in myriad ways, but I’m working on broad strokes here. I’ve arrived at this place because the concept of federalism has failed and the lizard people in DC exercise more and more control over what goes down in the individual states.


A good baseline to start with is imagine Balkanization without so much ethnic cleansing.

Obviously AK and Hawaii would go their own ways.

I’d figure the left coast would do its own thing, though I would expect some wars of secession as much of the rural areas would do their damnedest to join the new countries formed by the neighboring states. Large chunks of the land mass of those states want nothing to do with the coastal cities, but those cities absolutely must retain the ag areas if they don’t want to starve to death. This will be a reoccurring theme throughout. It would also be very difficult for the coastal cities to retain control of any territory to the east of the mountain ranges.

Idaho, MT, WY, some or all of the Dakotas and Nebraska would likely form a nation. Biggest question there is what the Native American tribes will choose to do. Do they go fully independent? Do they align with the states for economic reasons? I cannot even begin to guess. Which leads me to the next area as it would be dealing with the exact same issue.

Utah, most of Nevada, along with chunks of Arizona and Colorado would become a Mormon theocracy.

The rest of Arizona, New Mexico, I’m not sure. More questions of Native Americans and what they would choose to do arise.

Texas, is of course, Texas. I imagine OK, Parts of NM and even maybe parts of wester AR and LA would throw in with them.

The South would be the South, thought I don’t know how LA would really go. Do they throw in with the South or Texas? I have no idea. I do think that VA could lose a chunk of NoVA to the northeast.

Missouri is a wildcard. Do they go with the south or with the Midwest? Maybe even Montana through MN and all the way down to MO? Some border states between regions are a bit of a toss up. Especially ones with unique cultural populations.

The Midwest: Minnesota(?), Wisconsin(?), Iowa, I see joining with the rust belt. Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania (tossup with northeast, maybe split).

Northeastern states would likely fly together (to the relief of the everyone else) with the exception of Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire. Were a true Balkanization to occur, I think odds are better than even they would seek to join Canadia.

This would cause some serious realignment in how certain cities are made up going forward. The one that sticks out to me the most is Denver. It’s very isolated culturally from the surrounding area. Does it attempt to exert power and influence on where it lands, become an independent city-state, or does it experience a mass outward migration thus returning it to the kind of place it was 50 years ago?

It would absolutely cause massive amounts of migration as folks who maybe could tolerate certain things until retirement (nobody retires and moves to the northeast) find those options disappearing and decide to cut bait.

Like I said, spitballing broad brushstrokes here. I know I’ve clocked up plenty here. I just believe that we are far too big and far too diverse culturally and politically to make things work much longer.
 
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