Political Discussion

Hemotep said:
So we just wait until they do it themselves and get nothing out of it?
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No, push! Everyone should push hard for radical change but they should also be realistic about what that change actually looks like and how long it takes to actually effect their everyday lives. It’s much easier to slide back down a hill than to climb up it. We all get disillusioned when things don’t change radically and immediately many have struggled much longer and harder than I will ever to get the places we have gotten to only recently and the struggle is far from over but if you want to make things better you have to power through the bullshit (this election) so we have a shot at something better for everyone down the road.
 
Hemotep said:
My comment above covers some of this, so sorry for the repeat. But it's not that Biden "did" all of these, most happened while he was president because of other things already in motion. But he very much did not fight publicly or try nearly anything to stop most of them. He fails as a check on the Judicial and Legislative branch. Post-Trump you (Biden, not you) can not put your head in the sand and pretend that business as usual is going to work. It won't, it hasn't, and he's refused to strengthen the institutions to prevent it from getting worse. He's enabled the slide into the quagmire we find ourselves in.
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The only time Biden has really put his foot on the gas was to (twice) unilaterally bypass congress to send more of our tax dollars to arm an ongoing genocide, but when it comes to healthcare, student loans, abortion, sorry I'm totally powerless ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hemotep said:
Absolutely. But you don't meet that with milquetoast.
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Yea, Trump policies continuing under Biden is the exact opposite of an endorsement/good excuse. People raged about Trump's treatment of migrants at the border, and stuff like that has just continued on as usual.
 
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ayayrawn said:
The only time Biden has really put his foot on the gas was to (twice) unilaterally bypassing congress to send more of our tax dollars to arm an ongoing genocide, but when it comes to healthcare, student loans, abortion, sorry I'm totally powerless ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Yea, Trump policies continuing under Biden is the exact opposite of an endorsement/good excuse. People raged about Trump's treatment of migrants at the border, and stuff like that has just continued on as usual.
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Things get worse a lot faster than they get better.
 
Here's our ongoing, yet ramped up, problem over the last 8 years.
  • Being complacent in 2016
    • He'll never win
  • Both parties are to blame for the current state of our country
    • One has thrown the rule book out the window and is ok with it
    • The other is "pretending" to play by the rules
In the end, they're both too old, we need to add a new qualification to many government positions concerning age and term........if we get the chance. We are perpetually in a "choosing the lesser evil" choice every 4 years, the problem, after this happening for as long as it has, the gap between the two choices have become scarier, darker and terrifying.

The Right has lost their mind and gone full in on taking over forever.
The Left needs to grow a pair if they truly are fighting for democracy. A fight is not a subtle push back, it's an all out assault matching, if not surpassing your opponents push. If the Right succeeds, its in spite of their stupidity. If they learned a little about law, procedure and didn't just act like a bunch of bulls in a China shop, this would have been over in 2020 and they'd be sitting in the new United States of Trump...........you know he wants his name blazing over everything.

But the Dems need to stop leaning on being the adults in the room, assuming that's all it takes.

Lastly, both sides put all their chips in on the law solving their problems, even as of right now. They're hoping that Trump gets convicted of something, anything, that derails this whole thing and they have an easy out..................do you have enough faith in our justice system for this to happen? I think there's a better chance of Trump or Biden to drop dead.

Joe isn't the solution, he's what we needed at the moment, but, as many have said, the alternative will truly send this country into a tail spin that it won't recover from in my lifetime and it saddens me thinking of what our young adults and children with have to deal with.

................where's the Tylenol? 😑
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
No, push! Everyone should push hard for radical change but they should also be realistic about what that change actually looks like and how long it takes to actually effect their everyday lives. It’s much easier to slide back down a hill than to climb up it. We all get disillusioned when things don’t change radically and immediately many have struggled much longer and harder than I will ever to get the places we have gotten to only recently and the struggle is far from over but if you want to make things better you have to power through the bullshit (this election) so we have a shot at something better for everyone down the road.
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This isn't compatible though. Radical change will not look like realistic change. If we're looking at what realistic change will be, then we're not discussing or pushing for radical change. Radical change means that you change the way the game is played. The GOP operatives know this well and that's why they're having success making things worse fast and the Dems are having no success making things better slow.

Realistically, we are absolutely fucked and there is no radical positive change coming. My expectations of what this political system can and will do are incredibly realistic. I think it's unrealistic for people to support Biden or Trump and think things will get better at all. Does that mean that there's a better choice? No. Could there be? Yes. But there won't be for dozens of reasons we all know.

The problem is that people aren't being realistic about how what Biden is doing is killing people, the planet, and our future too. He might have made the decent slightly more comfortable for those of us whose lives are already more comfortable then most on this planet, but that's not a win. The future our kids face is horrifying even if Biden wins, Trump dies, and the Dems get to stay in power. It's unrealistic to not realize that we're at a point in our species history where life itself on a planetary scale is at stake. And the have nots are getting sacrificed more and more so that some of us can have it a bit more comfortable till we die and leave the fucked up mess to whoever is still alive to pick through the pieces.
 
Hemotep said:
This isn't compatible though. Radical change will not look like realistic change. If we're looking at what realistic change will be, then we're not discussing or pushing for radical change. Radical change means that you change the way the game is played. The GOP operatives know this well and that's why they're having success making things worse fast and the Dems are having no success making things better slow.

Realistically, we are absolutely fucked and there is no radical positive change coming. My expectations of what this political system can and will do are incredibly realistic. I think it's unrealistic for people to support Biden or Trump and think things will get better at all. Does that mean that there's a better choice? No. Could there be? Yes. But there won't be for dozens of reasons we all know.

The problem is that people aren't being realistic about how what Biden is doing is killing people, the planet, and our future too. He might have made the decent slightly more comfortable for those of us whose lives are already more comfortable then most on this planet, but that's not a win. The future our kids face is horrifying even if Biden wins, Trump dies, and the Dems get to stay in power. It's unrealistic to not realize that we're at a point in our species history where life itself on a planetary scale is at stake. And the have nots are getting sacrificed more and more so that some of us can have it a bit more comfortable till we die and leave the fucked up mess to whoever is still alive to pick through the pieces.
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Your point is valid, but Biden isn’t the problem, the system is the problem. Either we can work within the flawed system to make it a bit more palatable or we can burn the system down and see if what comes next ends up being better. I am too cynical in humanity to think that whatever form of government comes next will be any better and instead would likely end up being much much worse.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Your point is valid, but Biden isn’t the problem, the system is the problem. Either we can work within the flawed system to make it a bit more palatable or we can burn the system down and see if what comes next ends up being better. I am too cynical in humanity to think that whatever form of government comes next will be any better and instead would likely end up being much much worse.
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I think it's fair to say that Biden is a big part of the system. So he's absolutely part of the problem, but also clearly not all of the problem. If he isn't the problem, then Trump wouldn't be the problem either, and we all know that isn't true. But Trump is also very much not the whole problem. It can be both. Likewise, our choices don't need to be so black and white, it doesn't have to be the system as it is or burn everything to the ground and try to start over. We're infected with this kind of binary thinking and it prevents much needed action from taking place because folks can't see alternatives from the dominant narrative that it must be either/or.
 
Hemotep said:
I think it's fair to say that Biden is a big part of the system. So he's absolutely part of the problem, but also clearly not all of the problem. If he isn't the problem, then Trump wouldn't be the problem either, and we all know that isn't true. But Trump is also very much not the whole problem. It can be both. Likewise, our choices don't need to be so black and white, it doesn't have to be the system as it is or burn everything to the ground and try to start over. We're infected with this kind of binary thinking and it prevents much needed action from taking place because folks can't see alternatives from the dominant narrative that it must be either/or.
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I think we are mostly on the same page, maybe just different paragraphs.
 
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